Building the Future, logical next DLC?

[NSEP]

So we got Making History, so the logical next step for a DLC is Building the Future right?

And if the next DLC is going to be about the future, then this is what i would love to see in that DLC

Parts

• BFR parts, and maybe more giant rocket parts.
• Nuclear/Fusion reactors
• Futuristic Propulsion methods, like VASMIR, fusion propulsion, open-cycle NTR's, bassicly a small portion of the Engine List on the Atomic Rockets Site.
• Inflatable habitats and fuel tanks
• Bigger radiators and solar panels
• Cranes for cargo vehicles

Mechanics

With the Misson Builder feature of Making History, it would make sense for the next DLC to have such a cool gizmo too. I think the ability to colonize space would be nice, and space colonization not the same as building just a permanent base, by the way. With this new feature, you can mine and refine metals, minerals, and other resources for building domes, launchpads, more resource gathering plants, and structures like that. So its bassicly like a mini version of Surviving Mars, but in KSP instead.

 

So what do you think?

 

 

[Pthigrivi]

And maybe life support

[DAL59]

8 hours ago, NSEP said:

• BFR parts, and maybe more giant rocket parts.
• Nuclear/Fusion reactors
• Futuristic Propulsion methods, like VASMIR, fusion propulsion, open-cycle NTR's, bassicly a small portion of the Engine List on the Atomic Rockets Site.
• Inflatable habitats and fuel tanks
• Bigger radiators and solar panels
• Cranes for cargo vehicles

All of those are mods though, and pretty popular, well updated ones.  

@NSEP, I just gave you the 5000th rep!  

8 hours ago, NSEP said:

bassicly a small portion of the Engine List on the Atomic Rockets Site.

@nyrath, please say you're working on the Project Rho mod. 

 

[NSEP]

4 hours ago, DAL59 said:

All of those are mods though, and pretty popular, well updated ones.  

@NSEP, I just gave you the 5000th rep!  

Well, most of the parts in making history are also from popular mods from KSP, soooo, yeeaaah.

And thanks for the 5K rep pal!

Edited March 27, 2018 by NSEP

[Canopus]

I like all your other ideas but do we really need more giant rocket parts? The ones we have in the game are alreay totally overpowererd.

Edited March 27, 2018 by Canopus

[Gargamel]

If we can add a gameplay mechanic not available in a mod, then yeah I'm all for it.  But otherwise it won't get made. 

[Theseus]

I like it. Colonization of other planets and constructing vessels off-world is something I hope will someday be implemented in KSP.

I'd also like to see research tiers locked behind whether you've visited certain bodies or established labs on them. That way you're forced to visit other planets rather than unlocking everything while in Kerbin SOI.

Oh, and repeatable tech after you've unlocked everything else: better ISP for engines (up to a certain point), better fuel consumption, better signal strength for antennas etc.

Basically more incentives to go outside of Kerbin in career and science modes.

[kerbiloid]

I believe, one of native KSP problems is the dualism of "Micromanagement vs Colonization".
I.e. "every nozzle, antenna, thermometer, barometer as a separate detail" vs "a whole booster as a single part, a whole capsule with all expandable stuff as another single part".
Either "a stable small team of several friends (J,B,B,V) + random Kerbals casually,  travelling across the Solar System from planet to planet, taking care about every bolt and nut of their old ship",
or "fourty Kerbals to colonize Eve, fifty - to colonize Laythe, not to mention 50 tousrist trips or Civil Population-like mods and Kerbal City".

So, probably these would be two parallel roads for mods and DLCs. (Sociopath vs Megalomaniac career type).

Edited March 28, 2018 by kerbiloid

[NSEP]

On 27-3-2018 at 9:05 AM, Canopus said:

I like all your other ideas but do we really need more giant rocket parts? The ones we have in the game are alreay totally overpowererd.

I mean, if you want to build a colony and transport thousands of Kerbals at a time, you would need bigger rockets i geuss.

[Pthigrivi]

I think we could probably separate 'colonization' from just robust interplanetary missions. Right now I've got most of Nertea's Near future stuff, his brilliant SSPXR, plus Roverdude's USI life support, Kontainers, and reactors installed and its plenty to worry about. Life support really does completely revolutionize the way you play because time becomes such an important factor. USI-LS adds 3 resources (Supplies, Mulch and Fertilizer for greenhouses) and this seems about right to keep things interesting without overwhelming. The other nice thing it adds is Habitation time, which is what gives habitation modules an actual gameplay value besides being fancy looking dead weight. He also adds homesickness, which I tend to think for stock is maybe just slightly overcomplicating things. Adding life support, habitation and reactors to power everything is plenty. I also agree NSEP that we'd probably only need a fraction of what Near Future has to offer--a few more NERVA's, some nice habitation modules, etc. Even this is a lot to add, but all of a sudden going out to other worlds and surviving becomes a completely epic experience. 

..And if Im being really greedy: surface features. Geysers, volcanoes, signs of life, etc. that give bonus rewards for discovery. Give players a reason to tool around in a rover or make a pinpoint landing rather than landing any old place a sticking a flag in the ground.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Pthigrivi

[0something0]

What about constructs that act as parts? I doubt that a mod can be created so a construct can do things like refueling, mining, etc to set up a industrial base offworld to create things like launchpads and cities. That would pave the way for true permanent colonization efforts rather then sticking a tin can on a planrt and calling that a colony.

[Theseus]

5 hours ago, 0something0 said:

What about constructs that act as parts? I doubt that a mod can be created so a construct can do things like refueling, mining, etc to set up a industrial base offworld to create things like launchpads and cities. That would pave the way for true permanent colonization efforts rather then sticking a tin can on a planrt and calling that a colony.

Honestly, that sounds like the best and easiest way to set up a colony. You dump an initial base manually with rockets and everything, and then you build new modules and upgrade them just like you do with the KSC, simply by clicking on a building and upgrading it with funds.

Some further ideas:

The modules would be a Base Center (houses Kerbals up to a certain number depending on what upgrade tier the center is), VAB, SPH, Resource Extractor (lowest tiers extract ore for oxidizer and liquid fuel, higher tiers ore for vessel parts), Refinery, Energy Generation (solar, fuel cell, nuclear...), Research Center, Launch Pad, and Runway (for bodies with an atmosphere).

But upgrading an off-world base would be more expensive, and it shouldn't happen instantly. You manage supply routes in the Admin Building (and view them in the Tracking Station), and depending on the amount of funding you allocate to a base and supply route, constructing new vessels and base modules would take longer or shorter time. The game handles the resupplying automatically, with no autopiloted vessel travelling between the KSC and the new base, to keep things simple, but the player should have the option to build their own vessel, fill it up with supplies and Kerbals and fly it to the base manually if they so wish. With the highest tiers (which should be locked away in the research tree) of Extractor, Refinery, VAB, SPH, and Research Center (for cloning Kerbals :P) a colony can become self-sufficient and no longer reliant on the KSC for supplies.

Depending on where you put your base you would have access to certain modules:

- Orbital station: Center, VAB, Energy Gen, Research. Relies entirely on the KSC or another colony for resources and Kerbals, but obviously you can construct larger vessels.

- Atmosphere absent: Center, VAB, Extractor, Refinery, Energy, Research, Launch Pad. More ore available for fuel and vessel parts, and easier to manage.

- Atmosphere present: Center, VAB, SPH, Extractor, Refinery, Energy, Research, Launch Pad, Runway. More research, funding, and fame generation, less ore, but harder to manage.

With these differences between types of colonies, the best strategy would be to set up colonies on different bodies, like an orbital station that would build the vessels, a planetary base that would give more funding and research, and a moon base that would supply everything with resources.

[EatVacuum]

I like the idea of DLC to make good I.S.S. style space stations and have them actually useful. The current mobile processing lab does give a reason to build stations, but It's both OP for science gain and also not particularly fun. The getting science and bringing it back part is fun and challenging, but at the space station It's just absorb it, set it processing and then leave and wait days or weeks 'til the science tank is full. Then a quick visit to the station to transmit... and done.

Give us more science to do there, reasons to EVA and anything else to make space stations interesting and fun. You could call the DLC  "Makin' Stations!".

The exact same applies for bases. Give us more to do on the surface, ongoing activities for the bases. I'd really like to see actual colonization of Duna and Laythe  as an extended mission arc. That would be a great addon mission pack  for a Base-themed DLC. But it would need life support, greenhouses and so on, so not a small undertaking.

Yes I know you can find much of this in mods, and I do use them. But it should be in stock. Great mods can be abandoned...maybe  not while Linuxgurugamer is around but he could burn out one day. Once in stock it will be there as long as KSP is.

Edited March 29, 2018 by EatVacuum
Corrections

[0something0]

10 minutes ago, EatVacuum said:

Yes I know you can find much of this in mods, and I do use them. But it should be in stock. Great mods can be abandoned...maybe  not while Linuxgurugamer is around but he could burn out one day. Once in stock it will be there as long as KSP is.

Personally, I don't consider the DLCs "stock" as its not included in the base game. Besides, considering the new EULA, T2 could stop a certain mod to boost sales of a DLC.

[Kerbart]

The DLC is mainly the mission system, the parts where added to support the historical mission theme. This view might not be shared by everyone but if you’re buying int the “party line” of the DLC being more than a part pack it certainly has merit.

With that perspective it’s less logican to have “building the future” as a theme. It would be logical to pick a theme that supports the next DLC’s extension, whatever that is. Perhaps it’s multiplayer and the theme is “space war” (twice unlikely though). Perhaps it’s robotics and the theme is “1010110” 

Anyway, I don’t take “building the future” for granted in that sense.

[Wjolcz]

But... all of this you described are just a bunch of mods.

[raxo2222]

Its called KSP Interstellar Extended

[StarStreak2109]

Not buying anymore DLC, until fox the base game.

[MaximumThrust]

I think Near Future Tech and company, from Nertea, already bring more than I could ask, with models, textures and overall mechanics much better than a hypothetical and optimistic KSP 2 would bring. I also didn't update from 1.3.1, and probably won't.

https://imgur.com/a/2vESo
https://imgur.com/a/fJUG3
https://imgur.com/a/mUxBC
https://imgur.com/a/wBCin
https://imgur.com/a/JaN1h
https://imgur.com/a/URM7A
https://imgur.com/a/J4UdN
https://imgur.com/a/E7Am8
https://imgur.com/a/EYbmB

 

[Snark]

A DLC like this wouldn't really be my cup of tea.  It would distract from what is for me KSP's primary gameplay, which is spaceflight and rocket design.

On 3/26/2018 at 10:39 AM, NSEP said:

Parts

<various futuristic stuff>

I'm a great fan of having mods around that let people who want futuristic stuff add it to their games... but it's simply not something I'm interested in seeing.  It would take away from KSP, for me.  I like the engineering aspect of KSP, and I like seeing it at least approximately modeled after the tradeoffs in real life stuff.  To me, any futuristic stuff that's "out there" enough to make a significant difference to game play would be overpowered; and if it's not powerful enough to be overpowered... what does it add for me, in terms of gameplay?

It feels like it would take away enjoyment from me; just not my thing.

On 3/26/2018 at 10:39 AM, NSEP said:

Mechanics

With the Misson Builder feature of Making History, it would make sense for the next DLC to have such a cool gizmo too. I think the ability to colonize space would be nice, and space colonization not the same as building just a permanent base, by the way. With this new feature, you can mine and refine metals, minerals, and other resources for building domes, launchpads, more resource gathering plants, and structures like that. So its bassicly like a mini version of Surviving Mars, but in KSP instead.

Very strongly do not want.

Again, it's a matter of taste.  For me, KSP is about rocket design and spaceflight, and anything that takes away from that is distracting and diluting away from the game.  I'm not interested in turning the game into something that's about resource management and project strategy-- I'm not interested in "Railroad Tycoon in space".  For example, I did a playthrough with MKS-- once.  It seriously was not my cup of tea.  It's an amazing mod, and a real tour de force... but I'd sunk a couple dozen hours into it before I started wondering "why am I not having any fun at all," and I realized it was because it had changed KSP into a different game, so that it was primarily about logistics and research management and not about building and flying rocket ships.

Ditched it and never looked back.

Like I said, not dissing the mod.  It's an amazing piece of work, and I know there are lots of people who like it, and more power to 'em-- and I'm glad that it's a mod, which means only the people who want it will have it, and also that its production didn't take away from development resources that Squad could have focused on something else.

Anyway, that's why it's not my thing.  I liked Making History a lot, even though I have zero interest in recreating historical spacecraft, because, 1. it offers some interestingly useful (and reasonably plausible) spacecraft parts that give me more flexible design options for building my rockets, and 2. it has mission design as a feature, which provides more scenarios and reasons for designing and flying rockets.

Those are the two things it does, and both of them are completely about "designing and flying rockets", which for me is the core mission of KSP, and anything that isn't in service to that goal is something that I'd just as soon see coming from a mod rather than from Squad.

[bcink]

 

10 minutes ago, Snark said:

 For me, KSP is about rocket design and spaceflight

Agreed, but I think colonization would be awesome if done properly.

Something like: Once "x" was sent to Mun, or Duna, an MSC or DSC is established where you can start to grow VAB/SPH etc. Career mode would see you unlock buildable parts on the Mun or Duna at different stages of progression. No need for new resources as it would use the existing financial system. Air intake / engine parts would be unavailable by default unless a base were established on Laythe.

This would have the scope of the game remain vessel creation but expand the core.

 

 

[Pthigrivi]

On 4/1/2018 at 11:55 PM, Snark said:

Again, it's a matter of taste.  For me, KSP is about rocket design and spaceflight, and anything that takes away from that is distracting and diluting away from the game.  I'm not interested in turning the game into something that's about resource management and project strategy-- I'm not interested in "Railroad Tycoon in space".  For example, I did a playthrough with MKS-- once.  It seriously was not my cup of tea.  It's an amazing mod, and a real tour de force... but I'd sunk a couple dozen hours into it before I started wondering "why am I not having any fun at all," and I realized it was because it had changed KSP into a different game, so that it was primarily about logistics and research management and not about building and flying rocket ships.

Ditched it and never looked back.

Yeah MKS is just way too much. I think there's a big gap though between what one might consider near-future crewed spaceflight and full-on colonization. I mean in Elon Musk's wildest dreams they're not fabricating any kind of machinery from materials mined on mars for a long, long time. They'll be Sabatiering fuel and stuff, but all of that equipment needs to be shipped from earth. So if we're translating that kind of near-future engineering into Kerbal, you're really only talking about adding habitation and life support, which I think can be abstracted down into something pretty manageable. Kerbal is all about rocket design, but if you're sending 3 kerbals to Duna and back in an MK1-2 you aren't really engaging with anything like the realities of spaceflight. Factoring flight duration when designing payload is a pretty real (and to me, fun) engineering challenge that rolls pretty neatly into the core game. 

[Tyko]

It's a cool idea, but not on my priority list as you actually (IMHO) need a couple of other things to make colonization interesting and accessible to most players. My top requests would be Life Support and KER-style calculations/readouts.

Life Support is really necessary if you want to make colonization anything more than a bunch of kerbals standing around forever. And launching rockets on interplanetary missions requires a lot more planning than simply shooting Kerbals into space and hoping they land safely. Adding a complex colonization system would only appeal to those who really like doing all of their calculations manually - and that's a very small minority*. You have to make it accessible to a majority of the players to justify making it a DLC.

 

 

* I don't include KER users here because if you add KER you've already installed mods and might as well use MKS or other existing Colonization mods.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Tyko

[SpacePilotMax]

It's called Near Future Technologies and it's a free mod. Also SpaceY for the lifters. As for colonization, it's a feature that should have been in the stock game as far as I'm concerned, exists in the form of USI and is too much of a platform feature like parachutes.

[EatVacuum]

On 05/04/2018 at 7:43 PM, SpacePilotMax said:

It's called Near Future Technologies and it's a free mod. Also SpaceY for the lifters. As for colonization, it's a feature that should have been in the stock game as far as I'm concerned, exists in the form of USI and is too much of a platform feature like parachutes.

And again - official KSP content is supported  forever, at least as long as KSP itself is supported. On the other had many beloved mods have disappeared when the modder drops out. To be fair those with open licenses often get new lives when someone else  picks them up, but not all. I've been playing KSP since 0.18 and I've seen lots of mods retired. So I don't think "It's already in a mod" is a particularly valid argument.