Kerbal Inventory System

[Captain_Sly]

Ive been using Kerbal Inventory System for a while. I love that you can store parts and add them to spacecraft when needed. I want to add a docking node to my space station, but the volume of the node is 782.5L and Kerbals can only hold 250L. So when I transport this part to my station, how am I going to attach it if the kerbal can't hold it. Also is there a way to go into the mod files and change how much a Kerbal can hold??

Thanks

[Geonovast]

IIRC you can move any part up to 1,000kg.  Your part just won't fit in the kerbal's backpack.  If you get the storage device it's in, and where you want to put it, you can move it from the storage device and weld it into place just fine.

 

I can take a short video if you need.

[overkill13]

You could also attach it to your craft and move it near the target area, then use the grab command and move it from one vehicle to another without storing it at all.

[StrandedonEarth]

I had trouble moving stuff around if the destination was too far from the storage, until I figured out the strategy of attach - move kerbal - detach and re-attach closer - rinse/ repeat until in range of where it was supposed to go. There's probably an easier way, but that worked for me. It also helps to bring along ladders and/or handholds. Those square containers can also be used as backpacks, somehow someway (dropping it into inventory? Not sure, haven't actually done it).

[Geonovast]

8 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

Those square containers can also be used as backpacks, somehow someway

...Whhhhaaaat?  To the KIS thread!

https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/blob/master/User Guide.pdf

Section 7!

Edited April 15, 2018 by Geonovast

[Captain_Sly]

Great, I wil try those strategies. 

[artwhaley]

Not that you need to know for this application, but you can also move things heavier than 1000 kg if you have multiple kerbals in range of the part.   Their lifting abilities stack!  That's hard to use in orbit, but when base building it can be important.

[Gargamel]

9 hours ago, Geonovast said:

...Whhhhaaaat?  To the KIS thread!

https://github.com/ihsoft/KIS/blob/master/User Guide.pdf

Section 7!

When in doubt, RTFM.  

[Skystorm]

The logic behind the max grab mass and pickup distance make perfect sense, but in practice I think it can be a bit more of a detriment to game play on the surface and a real nightmare trying to keep multiple kerbals stationary while floating in space.  Fortunately, you can alter the KIS settings with a simple module manager patch.

@KISConfig:NEEDS[KIS]:FINAL
{
	@EvaPickup
	{
		@maxDistance = 3
		@grabMaxMass = 1
	}
}

The maxDistance is how far you can reach in meters and the grabMaxMass is the maximum weight of the part in tons.  The numbers above are the current default values as of KIS verson 1.10.  Feel free to adjust the numbers to your liking.

Place the above text into a file with a *.cfg extension and save it somewhere in your Gamedata directory.  You must have Module Manager for this to work.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Skystorm

[psychogre]

During in-orbit construction of large ships, I would often move various parts across large distances.  I started out doing the stepping method mentioned, but then figured out I could take advantage of the coasting movement of the Kerbal's jetpack. 

Since you can't make any jetpack adjustments after grabbing a part, I set it up so the Kerbal is coasting over the part I want to move, and toward the target location.  I'd have the Kerbal grab the part as they passed by, and then attach it at (or very near) the target.  If the coasting direction aim is off, the Esc key puts the part back where it was picked up, and you can try again.  It does take a bit of practice, but it works pretty well.  I've managed to move larger parts too using this method, as long as you have the needed number of Kerbals within range of where it is grabbed, but not necessarily where it is subsequently attached.

An imgur album of my construction: https://imgur.com/a/2k1Vi

[Gargamel]

7 hours ago, Skystorm said:

trying to keep multiple kerbals stationary while floating in space

That's why you pack a few ladder rungs into the container and bolt them onto the area you are working, then nobody is floating away. 

[dr.phees]

That mass limit should only exist in gravity / on the ground or in athmosphere.

[LameLefty]

11 minutes ago, dr.phees said:

That mass limit should only exist in gravity / on the ground or in athmosphere.

Well, this whole discussion probably belongs in the KIS thread, but ...

On STS-49, three astronauts performed a simultaneous EVA (the only 3-person EVA in history, so far as I'm aware) to secure the Intelsat 603 satellite. That satellite had a launch mass of approximately 4,200 kilograms. Even though it was "weightless" in orbit, it certainly wasn't massless. There was a reason why it took three crew to secure that satellite.

The KIS limits make sense, within the context of both gameplay and real physics. You can argue the specific values used, but not the fact of the limits themselves. 

[suicidejunkie]

Really, there should be a separate mass limit and weight limit.

 

As of 1.0.5, you could simply reactivate your jetpack with R after grabbing a part, which is a huge convenience.  Haven't tried it since so I don't know if it still works or not.

It also lets you cheese momentum by grabbing a part, jetpacking to Minmus orbital speed, then putting the part in your inventory before it leaves physics range.  But there isn't really any practical value to spending all that effort hauling 500kg up and down when a cargo rocket is so much faster and simpler.

[Vanamonde]

Modding question moved to the modding subforum. 

[artwhaley]

8 hours ago, suicidejunkie said:

Really, there should be a separate mass limit and weight limit.

I've thought about that too.... or rather, that the mass limit should scale based on gravity, when you're landed...  Wrestling 500kg into place on the Mun is a different animal than doing the same on Kerbin... though...  I don't want to have to break out the slide rule and look up gravitational parameters when I'm packing a container and need to know what I can lift on Duna... so I think not complicating it any more than necessary is the right call.

[dr.phees]

10 hours ago, LameLefty said:

On STS-49, three astronauts performed a simultaneous EVA (the only 3-person EVA in history, so far as I'm aware) to secure the Intelsat 603 satellite.

The KIS limits make sense, within the context of both gameplay and real physics. You can argue the specific values used, but not the fact of the limits themselves. 

The limit makes sense, but not gameplay-wise. Three astronauts can each hold position for herself, but that is not true with Kerbals, making the whole thing tedious.

A new limiting factor would be needed, maybe a craft with a certain number of Kerbals on board within some range. Gameplay wise that would mean, they could EVA, but you don't have to play that out.

[Capt. Hunt]

1 hour ago, artwhaley said:

I've thought about that too.... or rather, that the mass limit should scale based on gravity, when you're landed...  Wrestling 500kg into place on the Mun is a different animal than doing the same on Kerbin... though...  I don't want to have to break out the slide rule and look up gravitational parameters when I'm packing a container and need to know what I can lift on Duna... so I think not complicating it any more than necessary is the right call.

You're confusing mass with weight.  Mass doesn't change with gravity.  A 5kg bowling ball has the same mass in LEO as it does on the Earth's surface.  What changes is the weight.

 

Mass is a function of volume and density, weight is a function of mass and acceleration.

[artwhaley]

1 hour ago, Capt. Hunt said:

You're confusing mass with weight.  Mass doesn't change with gravity.  A 5kg bowling ball has the same mass in LEO as it does on the Earth's surface.  What changes is the weight.

 

Mass is a function of volume and density, weight is a function of mass and acceleration.

 

I'm not confusing mass with anything.  I'm saying instead of tracking two numbers in software... track one, and scale it based on gravity (calculating weight in situ, effectively.)  The person above me had suggested a mass limit and a weight limit be recorded...  and I was pointing out that coding a weight limit would only make sense on one body... better to just say "You can move x amount of mass in orbit, and it scales down the greater the gravitation, since you're working against inertia AND gravity, when you're lifting weight.

Mass is a function of the Higgs Boson, most likely, though until we understand that better it's easier for practical scientists to talk about it as it relates to inertia.   Volume is a function of atomic spacing.   Density is a derived property that relates mass to volume.   Weight I agree on, though. 

Also, I'm smiling while being contrary and pedantic, not trying to really be a pain. 

[suicidejunkie]

15 hours ago, artwhaley said:

 

I'm not confusing mass with anything.  I'm saying instead of tracking two numbers in software... track one, and scale it based on gravity (calculating weight in situ, effectively.)  The person above me had suggested a mass limit and a weight limit be recorded...  and I was pointing out that coding a weight limit would only make sense on one body... better to just say "You can move x amount of mass in orbit, and it scales down the greater the gravitation, since you're working against inertia AND gravity, when you're lifting weight.

Mass is a function of the Higgs Boson, most likely, though until we understand that better it's easier for practical scientists to talk about it as it relates to inertia.   Volume is a function of atomic spacing.   Density is a derived property that relates mass to volume.   Weight I agree on, though. 

Also, I'm smiling while being contrary and pedantic, not trying to really be a pain. 

The point would be that a Kerbal can only safely maneuver 1000kg of mass alone, due to momentum and the dangers of getting fingers/bodies crushed between it and the rocket or station while moving it.

Separately, a Kerbal can dead-lift only 100kg of weight while in the suit. 

Which would mean 1000kg from the mass limit on Minmus and 60kg on Eve.

[dr.phees]

The point would be that a Kerbal can only safely maneuver 1000kg of mass alone, due to momentum and the dangers of getting fingers/bodies crushed between it and the rocket or station while moving it.

On 18/04/2018 at 8:42 PM, suicidejunkie said:

The point would be that a Kerbal can only safely maneuver 1000kg of mass alone, due to momentum and the dangers of getting fingers/bodies crushed between it and the rocket or station while moving it.

Separately, a Kerbal can dead-lift only 100kg of weight while in the suit. 

Which would mean 1000kg from the mass limit on Minmus and 60kg on Eve.

Yes, that's all true, but, and that's a big but, this is a game. And we simply do not have forklifts or similar equipment and we cannot properly control several EVAs at the same time.

We all agree that handling of larger objects would be possible with several Kerbals (when pushing 1000kg, one person can easily achieve an acceleration of 10cm / s²). And we want to be able to do that (I want to). Using reality as a game mechanism does not make sense (regarding this issue). Another game play oriented limitation should apply.

[MaverickSawyer]

Re: OP's problem...

When I'm going to be doing a lot of EVA work, I usually make myself a "MULE (Miniature Utility and Logistics Enhancement)" that has a little docking port, some RCS and monoprop, a tiny reaction wheel, a small battery, and a MechJeb radial case, all built around a storage container of some sort. I then maneuver the MULE close to the EVA kerbal, lock the Smart RCS to Zero Relative Velocity, and then move the Kerbal. The MULE happily remains in formation with the Kerbal at a range within the reach of the Kerbal to get into the storage container. Once I'm done, I move the Kerbal so that the MULE is fairly close to its perch, disengage the Zero RVel, manually dock it, then board the craft with the Kerbal. it's a little involved and can be somewhat finicky sometimes, but the end result is the ability to carry large volumes to wherever I need the parts, without having to make repeat trips to the airlock or storage lockers.  

[Barar]

The USI PAL Konstruction parts gives a Kerbal bonus to lifting parts, not storing, you just need to be in range. Not sure how it works in space but should be the same.

This shows what the KIS USI Bonus is set too in the KIS.cfg.

The increases are from 6 - 22 tons with a range of 6m -16m depending on the part. Should make installing a docking port no problem.