MARS COPTER CONFIRMED FOR 2020!

[DAL59]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44090509

[sh1pman]

It’s just 1.8kg. Why don’t we send 100 of them?

[YNM]

Good one ! Hopefully it'll actually be sent and works 

[Ultimate Steve]

20 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

It’s just 1.8kg. Why don’t we send 100 of them?

Why have 1 when you can have 100 for 100x the cost?

In all seriousness, the heli is very much a tacked on secondary payload and must be made small, although I like your thinking, I think we should send a few with each lander from now on (assuming we don't get humans to Mars super fast).

[ProtoJeb21]

19 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

It’s just 1.8kg. Why don’t we send 100 of them?

This Mars-copter is going alongside the enormous Mars 2020 rover, so there’s a strict size limit for any extra cargo. Plus, the lighter the better. Less weight means the rover and Mars-copter rocket will be more efficient. 

[pincushionman]

Will it even work in that kind of atmosphere? And would the battery last more than about 15 seconds?

[kerbiloid]

Two events at once..

Quote

Nasa will send helicopter to Mars to test otherworldly flight
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44090509

and

Quote

Boston Dynamics CEO on being acquired and selling the SpotMini | TC Sessions Robotics 2018 
 

Spoiler

 

 

At first glance, they look unconnected.

But we remember, we know...

Spoiler

 

AMEE! She's coming.

Edited May 12, 2018 by kerbiloid

[YNM]

3 hours ago, sh1pman said:

It’s just 1.8kg. Why don’t we send 100 of them?

They're... massive ?

That's a 1 kg cracker. (I'm not saying it's a cracker, I'm saying this thing is going to be lightweight yet massive.)

[kcs123]

Just found it on other news portal and I see that someone already posted a link:

It must be very light because you can't have much active lift with propelers in Mars atmosphere, but folks were already creating some electrical chopters in KSP for Duna flights, so is it possible that NASA is inspired by Kerbals ?

[YNM]

25 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

... but folks were already creating some electrical chopters in KSP for Duna flights, so is it possible that NASA is inspired by Kerbals ? 

Probably more by this.

[Gargamel]

The BBC article that I read at lunch said that at the altitude that the rover is landing at, is the equivalent of 100,000 ft on Earth.   With current helicopters only able to function at a fraction at this altitude, the mars copter will be a huge leap ahead in rotary aviation. 

[kerbiloid]

Have they already tested it at 30 km altitude?

P.S.
It's funny to compare its rotation speed in the Earth documentary and Mars animation.
Will is use same blades for both 0 km on Earth and 0 km on Mars?

[Scotius]

Remember, Mars does have lower gravity than Earth. Lightweight copter-drone will be even lighter on Red Planet

[kcs123]

In video they mentioned that is tested in vacuum chamber to get same air density as on Mars. So, if it is capable to lift off on Earth it will have more than enough TWR on Mars.
Electric engine with battery and solar panels will provide fuel for a considerable time span until something wears off. Either, battery cells after XY nuber of recharge cycle, or some mechanical piece of equipment due to usage.

[DAL59]

Less weight and drag.

[YNM]

9 minutes ago, DAL59 said:

Less weight and drag.

But harder time getting a lift !

The blades will have to be Yuuge compared to the craft, and/or it'll have to go quickly (but not too quickly !)

 

[Wjolcz]

9 hours ago, pincushionman said:

Will it even work in that kind of atmosphere? And would the battery last more than about 15 seconds?

I own a small quadcopter that fits within the palm of my hand and can fly for 5 minutes. I don't see a reason why NASA would build something that is bigger and also worse in performance. They also tested it in simulated Mars atmosphere. It's on YouTube.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Wjolcz

[kcs123]

3 hours ago, YNM said:

The blades will have to be Yuuge compared to the craft, and/or it'll have to go quickly (but not too quickly !)

It does have huge blades compared to craft weight (1.8 kg) and blades rotates at much higher RPM (3000 RPM mentioned somewhere) compared to drones created for earth environment.
They already have working prototype, biggest concerns seems to be how to land it first time from space to Mars surface. After that, they should not have big issues.

[kerbiloid]

6 hours ago, Scotius said:

Remember, Mars does have lower gravity than Earth. Lightweight copter-drone will be even lighter on Red Planet

It has gravity ratio ~0.38, but density ration ~0.016  (0.02 / 1.225), so atmo/gravity  is ~25 times less.
So, It needs either 5 times longer blades, or rotate them 5 times faster, doesn't it?

Upd.
But if a vacuum chamber, then why not.

Edited May 12, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Cunjo Carl]

The speed of sound might be a big deal too because, at least on Earth, you don't want the blade tips going supersonic. The speed of sound on Mars is ~~240m/s, relative to Earth's 340m/s.

I'm curious how they're going to handle the dust, I think it'll be one of the bigger engineering concerns. Coaxial rotors are rare here on Earth because they're reputedly complicated and wear-prone. I can't imagine the martian dust will do it any favors. Still, it's NASA, I'm sure they have some tricks up their sleeves, and I can definitely understand the allure of not having a tail boom to wack into things!

If it works, I think it'll be an awesome new ability for their rovers. I have to imagine that right now driving a rover would be like playing KSP without the ability to zoom -- you have the close-up camera, the orbital photos, and absolutely nothing inbetween!  Having a general sense of where the nearby rough patches or interesting rocks are sounds like one of those game-changing conveniences.

 

[p1t1o]

11 hours ago, Cunjo Carl said:

I'm curious how they're going to handle the dust

How do you test if dust is a problem for martian choppers? You send a tiny little one to go find out

 

[magnemoe]

13 hours ago, Cunjo Carl said:

The speed of sound might be a big deal too because, at least on Earth, you don't want the blade tips going supersonic. The speed of sound on Mars is ~~240m/s, relative to Earth's 340m/s.

I'm curious how they're going to handle the dust, I think it'll be one of the bigger engineering concerns. Coaxial rotors are rare here on Earth because they're reputedly complicated and wear-prone. I can't imagine the martian dust will do it any favors. Still, it's NASA, I'm sure they have some tricks up their sleeves, and I can definitely understand the allure of not having a tail boom to wack into things!

If it works, I think it'll be an awesome new ability for their rovers. I have to imagine that right now driving a rover would be like playing KSP without the ability to zoom -- you have the close-up camera, the orbital photos, and absolutely nothing inbetween!  Having a general sense of where the nearby rough patches or interesting rocks are sounds like one of those game-changing conveniences.

Coax tend to be used on large helicopters there its lots of force involved, this think is more like an drone. Dust is mostly an problem for other systems especially the jet turbines.  
Here it will only affect the seals to the engine and control, this will also don't get many flight hours just small jumps. 

[Not Sure]

What I’ve read: 

Blade diameter: 1.1 meters

Weight: 4 pounds

The center cube thing is 14cm long

the blades will spin at ~3000rpm

at most 90 second flights.

It makes sense to me, I can’t think of a better secondary payload if they had a little space and mass left to spare on the craft. 

On 5/12/2018 at 6:23 AM, Wjolcz said:

I own a small quadcopter that fits within the palm of my hand and can fly for 5 minutes. I don't see a reason why NASA would build something that is bigger and also worse in performance. They also tested it in simulated Mars atmosphere. It's on YouTube.

Different conditions. The rotor area to mass ratio has to be much higher and the blades spin faster. It’s very limiting, I think I saw on one of those “hydrolic press” YouTube channels they tried flying a micro quad (tiny woop ftw I love mine) in a near vacuum and it did not work out. 

[Corona688]

On 5/12/2018 at 7:23 AM, Wjolcz said:

I own a small quadcopter that fits within the palm of my hand and can fly for 5 minutes. I don't see a reason why NASA would build something that is bigger and also worse in performance.

Mars has a thinner atmosphere, which requires faster motors, which require bigger batteries.  That adds mass, requiring even FASTER motors and BIGGER batteries.  Rinse, repeat until you break even.  Does this cycle of diminishing returns sound familiar to a KSP player?

[Racescort666]

21 hours ago, Cunjo Carl said:

The speed of sound might be a big deal too because, at least on Earth, you don't want the blade tips going supersonic. The speed of sound on Mars is ~~240m/s, relative to Earth's 340m/s.

 

45 minutes ago, Not Sure said:

What I’ve read: 

Blade diameter: 1.1 meters

Weight: 4 pounds

The center cube thing is 14cm long

the blades will spin at ~3000rpm

Based on this information, the tip speed is Mach 0.72; not crazy considering processing blade mach numbers are usually pretty high.