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I'd forgoton the stock game.....


maceemiller

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Hi all....so ive been playing RSS in KSP 1.3.1 for the last few weeks and decided to just play with the stock system today.....i have to admit, this view after i decoupled really took my breath away.....made me realise you can mod this game to hell but the real beauty is there for everyone :)

ercz6c.png

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  On 10/8/2018 at 9:57 PM, Kernel Kraken said:

I cannot play without tweakscale....

Even with no visual mods, I haven't played stock in like three years.

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I try to avoid tweakscale whenever possible.

It used to be that I couldn't play without KER.  That has changed slightly.  After trying a stock + KER game recently, I realize I cannot, I will not, play without KJR as well.  The stock floppiness of any reasonably sized rocket is pure BS.

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  On 10/8/2018 at 9:57 PM, Kernel Kraken said:

I cannot play without tweakscale....

Even with no visual mods, I haven't played stock in like three years.

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I mean no offense, but I try as much as possible to avoid tweakscale. (The one exception being that really really big thing........). Found it a bit cheaty tbh.

For me though my critical mods are KER and Editor extensions. Dont know the look of the normal editor anymore......

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  On 10/8/2018 at 10:02 PM, Ultimate Steve said:

I just realized that my "Mostly stock" install is at something like 40 mods...

plz send halp

Edit: To be fair, the only part mods are KAS, KIS, KER, BDA, and Pro Props if I remember correctly.

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Pfft.  What until you crack 200+ and get these in your logfile ...

[LOG 12:04:38.482] [ModuleManager] ModuleManager: 42350 patches applied, found <color=orange>103 errors</color>
[LOG 12:04:38.847] [ModuleManager] Ran in 124.291s
[LOG 12:09:12.806] [ModuleManager] Total loading Time = 526.545s
[LOG 12:09:13.331] Too many Settings pages, 18 pages disabled!!

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I totally feel you there, albeit i just cant stand the way stock looks anymore, too used to SciFiVE+scatterer to probably ever give them up unless by some miracle the devs actually create stock atmosphere effects and things like clouds and dust on planets.

eCHgFak.png

MTn0YCT.png

That and they NEED to do something about the stock sunflare, its atrocious and looks worse then something out of a early 2000s game.

SCqF57Y.png

E3zSa40.png

And yeah, while i dont do it quite that often as i honestly prefer stock combat, BDA does make air combat possible (you CAN do it stock, but its just too much of a pain to setup imo so not worth all the effort, mostly use BDA for air combat, sometimes for ground combat depending on what mood im in).

D1ZDqwE.png

So...um...yeah, i think ill stick to my very lightly modded game, visual mods so that i can actually enjoy the visuals, and occasionally BDA when i wanna do dogfights against AI or make sentry guns that fire at me without requiring manual control.  As for space and space battles, stock all the way!

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  On 10/12/2018 at 2:25 PM, MR L A said:

Even with rigid attachment on?

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It's true....floppy rockets are still a problem.  I launched a small rocket no more than 15 meters tall and it wobbled like hell. 

I had to use autostrut to counter the wobble....the rocket was only 14 parts and was a simple design

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  On 10/12/2018 at 2:25 PM, MR L A said:

Even with rigid attachment on?

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Yes.  It also makes them snap.  I also really, really do not want to have to click on every freaking part on a several hundred piece vessel to turn on autostrut or rigid attachment.  Give rigid attachment a global on/off with an effectiveness slider, and we'll talk.

KJR is absolute magic.  I won't play without it.

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  On 10/9/2018 at 12:28 AM, qzgy said:
  On 10/8/2018 at 9:57 PM, Kernel Kraken said:

I cannot play without tweakscale....

Even with no visual mods, I haven't played stock in like three years.

Expand  

I mean no offense, but I try as much as possible to avoid tweakscale. (The one exception being that really really big thing........). Found it a bit cheaty tbh.

For me though my critical mods are KER and Editor extensions. Dont know the look of the normal editor anymore......

Expand  

I'm not sure what's "cheaty" about rescaling fuel tanks or structural parts. It's really useful for those and it makes sense that your engineering team can whip up a smaller or larger strut or nosecone. TweakScale does a really good job of scaling the stats too.

I do avoid scaling any parts with 'worky bits' like Pods, Engines and Science. I would consider changing those to be a bit cheaty, but that doesn't damn the entire mod.

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  On 10/12/2018 at 4:43 PM, maceemiller said:

I launched a small rocket no more than 15 meters tall and it wobbled like hell.

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Seems weird... I launch rockets taller than that without wobble all the time :s

  On 10/12/2018 at 6:57 PM, Geonovast said:

I also really, really do not want to have to click on every freaking part

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You can alter the module so it’s on by default

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  On 10/12/2018 at 8:10 PM, Tyko said:

I'm not sure what's "cheaty" about rescaling fuel tanks or structural parts. It's really useful for those and it makes sense that your engineering team can whip up a smaller or larger strut or nosecone. TweakScale does a really good job of scaling the stats too.

I do avoid scaling any parts with 'worky bits' like Pods, Engines and Science. I would consider changing those to be a bit cheaty, but that doesn't damn the entire mod.

Expand  

With Tweakscale practically always the scaled part is worse than a 'natural' part of that size.

The only exceptions are where said 'natural' don't exist in given size, or you don't care about the specific trade-offs.

E.g. I almost always tweakscale RGU from 1.25 to 0.625 size. It's considerably more expensive but provides SAS modes Hecs doesn't, and gives reaction wheel just good enough for microsats (Hecs is too strong). And is way neater. I also frequently scale batteries up or down; Z-4k to 1.25 giving me a weaker, slimmer, lighter alternative to Z-1k. I definitely prefer to upscale Vernors instead of using several smaller. There's no 0.625m stock Vector, which makes extremely fun engine for lightweight launchers. The radially mounted Thud in its original size is not very useful, but tweakscale it to half the size, and you have a wonderful engine for small landers etc.

Plus some things *just barely* don't fit right. The SPH/VAB trucky is juuust a little too narrow to fit MK2 parts in the back snugly. Scale them to some 85% and you get this.

 

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  On 10/15/2018 at 11:38 AM, Sharpy said:

With Tweakscale practically always the scaled part is worse than a 'natural' part of that size.

The only exceptions are where said 'natural' don't exist in given size, or you don't care about the specific trade-offs.

E.g. I almost always tweakscale RGU from 1.25 to 0.625 size. It's considerably more expensive but provides SAS modes Hecs doesn't, and gives reaction wheel just good enough for microsats (Hecs is too strong). And is way neater. I also frequently scale batteries up or down; Z-4k to 1.25 giving me a weaker, slimmer, lighter alternative to Z-1k. I definitely prefer to upscale Vernors instead of using several smaller. There's no 0.625m stock Vector, which makes extremely fun engine for lightweight launchers. The radially mounted Thud in its original size is not very useful, but tweakscale it to half the size, and you have a wonderful engine for small landers etc.

Plus some things *just barely* don't fit right. The SPH/VAB trucky is juuust a little too narrow to fit MK2 parts in the back snugly. Scale them to some 85% and you get this.

 

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Yea, those are all good points and I have a number of rescaled engines and thrusters in my game too. I just have a rule that I don't tweakscale them. Instead I create a new engine using the scaled part. I'll write a new config, give it a new name and balance the stats. This can then be used over an over like any other engine. My fav is actually a half-sized Thud called a Bumper :D . You're welcome to use it, the full engine config is below. (NOTE: I should really check the exhaust plume. I haven't used this in a 1.4.x game yet. If it's off I'll fix and repost.)

I also think batteries aren't dense enough - RL batteries are really fricking heavy for their size - so I wrote a config to halve the size of all surface attach batteries and halve the thickness of stack batteries. Stacked pieces have all kinds of structural elements and cable runs taking up room in that stack part other than just the batteries. I didn't change the battery stats, just made them more dense.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edited by Tyko
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  • 2 weeks later...
  On 10/12/2018 at 6:57 PM, Geonovast said:

Yes.  It also makes them snap.  I also really, really do not want to have to click on every freaking part on a several hundred piece vessel to turn on autostrut or rigid attachment.  Give rigid attachment a global on/off with an effectiveness slider, and we'll talk.

KJR is absolute magic.  I won't play without it.

Expand  

I use full autostrut, that and a bit of manual strutting between stages where autostrut can't counter wobble.

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  On 10/9/2018 at 1:34 AM, panzer1b said:

I totally feel you there, albeit i just cant stand the way stock looks anymore, too used to SciFiVE+scatterer to probably ever give them up unless by some miracle the devs actually create stock atmosphere effects and things like clouds and dust on planets.

eCHgFak.png

MTn0YCT.png

That and they NEED to do something about the stock sunflare, its atrocious and looks worse then something out of a early 2000s game.

SCqF57Y.png

E3zSa40.png

And yeah, while i dont do it quite that often as i honestly prefer stock combat, BDA does make air combat possible (you CAN do it stock, but its just too much of a pain to setup imo so not worth all the effort, mostly use BDA for air combat, sometimes for ground combat depending on what mood im in).

D1ZDqwE.png

So...um...yeah, i think ill stick to my very lightly modded game, visual mods so that i can actually enjoy the visuals, and occasionally BDA when i wanna do dogfights against AI or make sentry guns that fire at me without requiring manual control.  As for space and space battles, stock all the way!

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*Sees Lens flares*

This post brought to you by the JJ Abrams gang!

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