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[KSP >= 1.3.0] TweakScale - Under Lisias' Management - 2.4.8.8 - 2024-1117

Lisias

By Lisias
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Lisias

Lisias

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ANNOUNCE

A weird and inexplicable glitch in the matrix happened, and one release of TweakScale vanished from this Existencial Plane due a rupture on the Space Time Continuum. Don't ask, I blame Einstein for this.

It's recommended that all users of TweakScale download the new current Release to avoid a temporal paradox.

Links on the OP.

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Krazy1

Krazy1

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Hello, new to Tweak Scale! Man this is awesome... 3.75m Rapiers!  

There are problems with fuel tank prices though. I scaled a Mk1 Liquid Fuel Fuselage from 1.25m to 3.75m and placed it in mirror symmetry. The fuel mass scaled by 27. Cubic law makes sense. The 1.25m price is 550 so assuming same scaling 27 * 550 = 14850 but actual price is 32686.9. The mirror twin of this part is 265128.8. Then I made a copy holding ALT and it's compounded: one copy is 265128.8 again but the second mirrored part is 6401527.3. All of the fuel quantities/ masses look OK, constant. Without mirroring, it still has price compounding... 5th copy is 4.6 billion.

Unfortunately other fuel tanks also have cost problems. Scaling tanks to smaller size results in negative cost without any copying.

 

 

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Azic Minar

Azic Minar

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25 minutes ago, Krazy1 said:

Hello, new to Tweak Scale! Man this is awesome... 3.75m Rapiers!  

There are problems with fuel tank prices though. I scaled a Mk1 Liquid Fuel Fuselage from 1.25m to 3.75m and placed it in mirror symmetry. The fuel mass scaled by 27. Cubic law makes sense. The 1.25m price is 550 so assuming same scaling 27 * 550 = 14850 but actual price is 32686.9. The mirror twin of this part is 265128.8. Then I made a copy holding ALT and it's compounded: one copy is 265128.8 again but the second mirrored part is 6401527.3. All of the fuel quantities/ masses look OK, constant. Without mirroring, it still has price compounding... 5th copy is 4.6 billion.

Unfortunately other fuel tanks also have cost problems. Scaling tanks to smaller size results in negative cost without any copying.

 

 

Do you have KSP Recall installed? Also, what version are you on? KSPR shouldn't be needed on 1.10, but something got borked on 1.8 through 1.9.1. Now That said, if you are on 1.8-1.9x, get KSP Recall if you don't already have it and make sure you have fully updated TS by deleting the old TS folder before you drop the newest version into your gamedata folder. Let us know if that works!

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Azic Minar

Azic Minar

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3 hours ago, justspace103 said:

I got the showstopper "Houston we have a problem" error and it told me to come here. Heres the log:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4yhwc9z9ap8e58b/KSP.log?dl=0

Now I am not as skilled as @Lisias in trouble shooting things, but did you remember to fully delete KNES and Tweakscale folders before copying in the new versions? I have a very similar install without those warnings, and that's the only thing I can think of unless I'm missing something obvious ... 

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Lisias

Lisias

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4 hours ago, justspace103 said:

I got the showstopper "Houston we have a problem" error and it told me to come here. Heres the log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4yhwc9z9ap8e58b/KSP.log?dl=0

Ouch, it's my bork on Knes. :( Sorry. Some time ago, I leaked a double patch when I was writing the TweakScale patches for Knes. 

[LOG 17:55:54.570] Applying update Knes/Compatibility/Tweakscale/Knes-ATV_TweakScale/@PART[_Knes_STEAM_CrystalLab]:NEEDS[TweakScale]:FOR[Knes] to Knes/Parts/ATV/_Knes_STEAM_CrystalLab.cfg/PART[_Knes_STEAM_CrystalLab]
[LOG 17:55:54.572] Applying update Knes/Compatibility/Tweakscale/Knes-ATV_TweakScale/@PART[_Knes_STEAM_CrystalLab]:NEEDS[TweakScale]:FOR[Knes] to Knes/Parts/ATV/_Knes_STEAM_CrystalLab.cfg/PART[_Knes_STEAM_CrystalLab]

However, this is already fixed on the latest Knes, I just checked. Please update Knes to the latest.

(I just refreshed the page and noted that @Azic Minar has already solved it for you.)

 

1 hour ago, Krazy1 said:

Hello, new to Tweak Scale! Man this is awesome... 3.75m Rapiers!  

There are problems with fuel tank prices though. I scaled a Mk1 Liquid Fuel Fuselage from 1.25m to 3.75m and placed it in mirror symmetry. The fuel mass scaled by 27. Cubic law makes sense. The 1.25m price is 550 so assuming same scaling 27 * 550 = 14850 but actual price is 32686.9. The mirror twin of this part is 265128.8. Then I made a copy holding ALT and it's compounded: one copy is 265128.8 again but the second mirrored part is 6401527.3. All of the fuel quantities/ masses look OK, constant. Without mirroring, it still has price compounding... 5th copy is 4.6 billion.

Unfortunately other fuel tanks also have cost problems. Scaling tanks to smaller size results in negative cost without any copying.

I'm checking this right now, but on a wild guess I think you are running KSP 1.9 without KSP-Recall.

By a lucky strike (or lack of luck) :P I'm running a lot of regression tests on the latest TweakScale and previous KSP versions, and I can say for sure that:

  • On KSP 1.5.1, the problem didn't manifested
  • On KSP 1.6.1, neither
  • On KSP 1.7.3, nope.
  • On KSP 1.8.1, nope**2
  • On KSP 1.9.1 (with KSP-Recall), nope**3
  • On KSP 1.10, I got something unexpected: it worked fine too. :sticktongue:

(I'm on the middle of a long night monitoring a serious infrastructure change on our biggest customer - please excuse my weird sense of humour at the moment :) ).

The tests were made with a Minimal KSP Instalment (KSP, TweakScale, Module Manager and the minimal set of Add'Ons for my customised tools).

I used an Inline Mk1 Cockpit, and attached a FL-T400 scaled to 1.875 fuel tank radially. Then I Alt-Clicked it 3 times, attaching the new tank on the previous one. Then I unattached the first tank, turned on the mirror symmetry, and attached it again. I ended up with a 15.100 Funds useless contraption on the Editor on all situations.

SrJxcKb.png

I will need your full KSP.log and ModuleManager.ConfigCache (and also everything under <KSP>/Logs/ModuleManager) to figure out what's happening on your rig.

 

1 hour ago, Azic Minar said:

Now I am not as skilled as @Lisias in trouble shooting things,

You will get there. Thanks for the help! :) 

 

-- -- -- POST EDIT -- -- -- 

@Krazy1, I found a glitch however - When you scale an attached part, the vessel price is not updated until the next vessel change  - any change, including switching  the Variant.

Saving the craft doesn't update the cost on the screen, but loading it shows the correct price on the screen.

I think I need to fire up some event on KSP to have this fixed, but I really doubt this is the cause of your problems.

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Krazy1

Krazy1

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1 hour ago, Lisias said:

@Krazy1, I found a glitch however - When you scale an attached part, the vessel price is not updated until the next vessel change  - any change, including switching  the Variant.

Saving the craft doesn't update the cost on the screen, but loading it shows the correct price on the screen.

I think I need to fire up some event on KSP to have this fixed, but I really doubt this is the cause of your problems.

OK... thanks for the reply. Sorry for my lack of detail. I'm on KSP 1.10 without KSP-Recall (never installed TweakScale on 1.9). Mods list from CKAN:

Spoiler

[x] Science! Continued (xScienceContinued 5.26)
AT Utils (AT-Utils v1.9.4)
Better Load Save Game Renewed (BetterLoadSaveGame 2.5.1.3)
Blast Awesomeness Modifier (BAM) (BAMCont 1.3.3.3)
Chatterer (Chatterer 0.9.99)
Chatterer Extended (ChattererExtended 0.6.2)
ClickThrough Blocker (ClickThroughBlocker 1:0.1.10.6)
Configurable Containers (ConfigurableContainers 2.5.0.1)
Craft Manager (CraftManager 1.2.0)
Editor Extensions Redux (EditorExtensionsRedux 3.4.1.1)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.13.0.0)
Kerbal Changelog (KerbalChangelog v1.3.0)
Kerbal Engineer Redux (KerbalEngineerRedux 1.1.7.2)
Kerbal Wind Tunnel (WindTunnel 1.2.4)
KXAPI (KXAPI 1.2.0)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 4.1.4)
Show All Fuels Continued (ShowAllFuelsContinued 1.4.4)
Toolbar Controller (ToolbarController 1:0.1.9.4)
TweakScale - Rescale Everything! (TweakScale v2.4.3.17)
Zero MiniAVC (ZeroMiniAVC 1:1.1.0.1)
 

I was using the wheel click pop-up menu from Editor Extensions Redux to get the part info; you can see it in the screenshots. The cost in the lower left is updating immediately. I tried save/ load but no change. Here's an album of what I got when I repeated your test: 

https://imgur.com/a/9gD7HLc

The price has major inflation! I'm going to try removing Configurable Containers to see what happens. I'm a noob getting these troubleshooting files...I see what I can do.

 

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Lisias

Lisias

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18 minutes ago, Krazy1 said:

https://imgur.com/a/9gD7HLc

The price has major inflation! I'm going to try removing Configurable Containers to see what happens. I'm a noob getting these troubleshooting files...I see what I can do.

 

I need also the KSP.log, ModuleManager.ConfigCache and also everything under <KSP>/Logs/ModuleManager.

Without these files, I'm on the dark - it's unfeasible to install all the Add'Ons and trying to reproduce the problem by guessing, and the KSP.log will tell me exactly what I need to know when something borks, and will give me exactly what you have installed on the gamedata (including any custom patches you may have), and not only a list of add'ons that could be badly installed. :)

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Lisias

Lisias

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20 hours ago, Krazy1 said:

Hey - I got lucky! I removed Configurable Containers and it worked! I rebuilt your test and got 15,100. Of course it would be nice if they both worked.

Oukey, a TweakScale Companion for Configurable Containers is being planned now. :) 

On the other hand, I just realised the reason I didn't had noticed the problem on the Craft Cost not being updated immediately on each change. I did regression tests down to 1.4.1, and noted that on KSP 1.5.0 the Cost stopped being updated when I change the Scale of the part. But I also noted that Editor Extensions Redux somehow "restored" the functionality - so it's something on KSP 1.5.0 that I missed, mainly because I always use Editor Extensions Redux on my gaming (where this glitch would had been easier noticed), and it masked the problem. :) [edit: false alarm, it was something that I missed, as now EER is not "solving" the issue anymore...].

Well, we solved three problems (mine, yours and another one) by the price of one (the regression testing I did due one of them).

Cheers! :)

 

16 hours ago, Azic Minar said:

CC is amazing, but yikes, that's something I've not noticed and I love the mod.

It's a fuel switch that also affects the mass, cost and resources. FSFuelSwitch and ModularFuelTanks works because they are supported on TweakScale's code, and IFS works because TweakScale is supported by it.

Now I need to work support for CC, and things will be settled. :)

Edited by Lisias
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Lisias

Lisias

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NOTAM

Some time ago, I detected a problem on the mechanism used by TweakScale to withdraw itself from "insane" parts.

I was right about the prognostic, but I was wrong about the diagnosis. It's not something on KSP, but a change on TweakScale itself that broke some invisible equilibrium and ended up failing the module withdrawal.

What I got it right: it's possible to remove a module from the prefab as long it happens before some event (yet to be correctly detected).

What I got it wrong: on the past, that event was happening after the DryCostWriter phase, and I wrongly assumed that such event would be loading or creating a savegame. The fact is that such event can happen at anytime after the Main Menu scene is fired.

When I refactored TweakScale to cope with the new way Editor handles surface attachments, I broke that equilibrium I mentioned, and the side effect is that the "event" started to happen in a way that borked the Module withdrawal from the prefab. This behaviour is consistent down to KSP 1.4.1 (didn't bored further test below it) using the current TweakScale code, so it's a TweakScale flaw.

This is important because, right now, parts that had TweakScale "almost" withdrawn this way I'm doing now cannot be attached to crafts, the part just doesn't "snaps". This opened issue #125.

So, I gave up withdrawing and only deactivated the module. This solved the issue from KSP 1.10 down to 1.4.1, what again pinpoints TweakScale as the only culprit for this problem.

I didn't tested enough, yet, which change on TweakScale broke that equilibrium that allowed the withdrawing to work on the past, but it's reasonable to think that such equilibrium can be broke by anything else (and this explains one weird issue I was never able to diagnose before).

As long as I get some rest (had I mentioned that I spent the night in readiness on an infrastructure migration? :P it went flawless, by the way, I spent 95% of the time diagnosing a lot of issues here!), another glitch on the matrix will mysteriously happen and then TweakScale 2.4.3.18 will prevent a temporal paradox by being the FINAL release for this troublesome (really troublesome) 2.4.3 series.

Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia, and TweakScale 2.4.3.18 was always the final release of the 2.4.3 series. :sticktongue:

KSP-Recall and all the Companions that does Sanity Checks will be also updated - I don't care if they already manifested the problem or not, the withdrawal mechanism (besides looking a good idea at that time) proved itself unreliable right now.

Once this fire is off, I will leverage on the two years of knowledge acquired reading source code from a lot of add'ons (and the kitchen's sink), something that I hadn't yet when I first wrote the Sanity Checks, and will cook a new (and deterministically able to be proven safe) way of executing the Sanity Checks. Most of them does not need to be carried out on Main Menu and now I know better ways and places to carry on such tasks. The reason I insisted on the Main Menu stunt was due Making History apparently adding - or did added in the past - things on the prefab on Main Menu first appearance, and some of that things had borked on TweakScale at that time (it's the reason I count the parts on the prefab before executing the Sanity Checks, only going on after some frames without that count changing).

TweakScale 2.4.4 will have this new mechanism implemented after being validated on the field by TweakScale Beta.

 

 

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Azic Minar

Azic Minar

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In debunking my great game bork, I found out that a lot of parts have unholy characters when tweakscale is looking at them. What are unholy characters so that I can remove them?

I also notice that support is removed when parts have buoyancy. I must be missing the right issues to read up on in the github repository.

Though the negative mass issue makes me wonder if that can be written into a mod as an in flight activation

Edited by Azic Minar
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TranceaddicT

TranceaddicT

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11 minutes ago, Azic Minar said:

In debunking my great game bork, I found out that a lot of parts have unholy characters when tweakscale is looking at them. What are unholy characters so that I can remove them?

Those would be things like . (dots) and spaces.  TS doesn't like those.

I'm dealing with that in the Mk1Hatch mod. Problem is that those "unholy characters" are embedded elsewhere, like .my files.

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Azic Minar

Azic Minar

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7 minutes ago, TranceaddicT said:

Those would be things like . (dots) and spaces.  TS doesn't like those.

I'm dealing with that in the Mk1Hatch mod. Problem is that those "unholy characters" are embedded elsewhere, like .my files.

Go going through and removing extra spaces and dots and dashes should help?

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TranceaddicT

TranceaddicT

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4 minutes ago, Azic Minar said:

Go going through and removing extra spaces and dots and dashes should help?

Yes and no.

It depends on the mod and how far those characters propagate throughout the files. Deleting spaces or dots and replacing with underscores does result in other problems being created.

Note, even spaces in the directory the for models and textures causes this. 

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Azic Minar

Azic Minar

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Just now, TranceaddicT said:

Yes and no.

It depends on the mod and how far those characters propagate throughout the files. Deleting spaces or dots and replacing with underscores does result in other problems being created.

Note, even spaces in the directory the for models and textures causes this. 

That makes sense. I've noticed that with some models, you can't just create a new part file to reference them. They seam to reject it and only the original one works.

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TranceaddicT

TranceaddicT

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1 minute ago, Azic Minar said:

That makes sense. I've noticed that with some models, you can't just create a new part file to reference them. They seam to reject it and only the original one works.

i'm not home right now so i can't help, but check in CKAN for the mod that adds a hatch to the Mk1 pod. That one uses dots as separators.

BDB mod has the issue with spaces in directory tree names. If I remember correctly, the arises only for parts located in the directory for "Structures and Fuels".

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Lisias

Lisias

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47 minutes ago, Azic Minar said:

In debunking my great game bork, I found out that a lot of parts have unholy characters when tweakscale is looking at them. What are unholy characters so that I can remove them?

It's like @TranceaddicT said: Unity's developers, in their transcendental wisdom (this was an exercise of sarcasm), decided that everything would be an URL on its guts. But the rules for naming an URL are different from the rules for naming files, so you need to URLEncode and URLDecode the filename all the time. It sucks, no to mention the slightly penalty impose on everything that tries to read a Kraken damned file (urlencode, than "GET" it using the tcp-stack's "file://that-kraken-damned-file" into memory, and then using it). And yeah, this is another factor contributing to long loading times on KSP - when you have thousands to files to load, any extra 50ms delay per file became 50 seconds easily.

So people here just give this not so nice piece of retangular paper the finger and opened files using the C# file library. But then we got a mismatch between the filename and the resource name, that people worked around by just avoiding anything that would be URLEscaped on the filename (as spaces, that turns to %20).

On TweakScale specific case, and since the information I really needed was already on memory, I choose to just flag the parts loaded from files with "unholy characters" so I can easily get to them on the log if one of these parts gets flagged by an insanity or some other error. In order to really flag the part as unmaintenable (i.e., synthetically build into memory instead of coming from a file, and so how in hell this thing got TweakScale at first place?), I would had to URLdecode the resource in order to match the filename, but really interesting KSP instalment have a huge amount to parts to inspect, and any 5 ms of extra delay needed to be really sure about something that can or cannot be a problem would easily became 10 seconds of extra time taxing the user wanting to load his savegame and play the thing - so I ended up just flagging it as "unholy" to save the user a bit of burden.

 

1 hour ago, Azic Minar said:

Go going through and removing extra spaces and dots and dashes should help?

If you are authoring the parts, please don't use them. This forces you to use a name for the patch, and another for identifying the part on memory: 

# on a config file
PART
{
	name = my_fancy_part
	<yada yada yada>
}

# on a patch
@PART[my_fancy_part]
{
	<yada yada yada>
}

# On C# code:
void myUnityHandler() {
	if ("my.fancy.part" == this.Part.Name)
	{
		<yada yada yada>
	}
}

 

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