RealTime - no more temporal cheating

[lajoswinkler]

Here's a funny idea. Making a mod that disables timewarping. Sure, you can always choose not to timewarp, but it's tough not to. All it takes is pressing one key. This would prevent that.

However, to combat the annoying proposition of having to keep the computer on all the time, the mod should follow the actual time pace we live in, so you could close the game, even turn off the computer, and next time you start KSP, it adjusts to the time that has passed. You can start a mission now and get back to it in a week.

For those who say they could just switch the system time and cheat that way, I propose a feature of mod synchronizing with an atomic clock like the one at time.nist.gov.

It's not a mod for deep space (unless you're really into it), so evaluate it in its own context. It's for Kerbin, Mün, maybe Minmus, for spaceplanes, suborbital jumps, rocket missiles.

It would work nicely with Kerbal Alarm Clock.

 

I have no means of programming this myself. It's just a plugin so I can only offer advice and ideas.

@CaptainKorhonen You might be interested in this.

Edited November 10, 2018 by lajoswinkler

[kerbiloid]

Can the KSP license be bequeathed?

[lajoswinkler]

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

Can the KSP license be bequeathed?

I'm not sure what is it you're asking...

[kerbiloid]

Just now, lajoswinkler said:

I'm not sure what is it you're asking...

Grandchildren will finish a real-time game started by their grandfather.

A generation ship in KSP.

[Tyko]

Yea...this doesn't really work for a 'realistic' 20th/21st century space travel game. A trip to the nearest planets would take months. Further trips could easily take years. The fastest launch we ever achieved still took 10 years to get to Pluto. 

You can't play this game in real time if you ever want to go further than the moons of Kerbin and even that would be annoying.

[lajoswinkler]

42 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Yea...this doesn't really work for a 'realistic' 20th/21st century space travel game. A trip to the nearest planets would take months. Further trips could easily take years. The fastest launch we ever achieved still took 10 years to get to Pluto. 

You can't play this game in real time if you ever want to go further than the moons of Kerbin and even that would be annoying.

It says that right there in the OP:

Quote

It's not a mod for deep space (unless you're really into it), so evaluate it in its own context. It's for Kerbin, Mün, maybe Minmus, for spaceplanes, suborbital jumps, rocket missiles.

 

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

Grandchildren will finish a real-time game started by their grandfather.

A generation ship in KSP.

I'm sure there's nutty people who would use this idea even for such endeavours, but I wouldn't.

[Tyko]

7 minutes ago, lajoswinkler said:

It says that right there in the OP:

 

but...why are you asking someone to spend the time writing a mod that even you wouldn't actually use?

Even lunar hops would take days of RT to complete...

Edited November 10, 2018 by Tyko

[lajoswinkler]

Just now, Tyko said:

but...why are you asking someone to spend the time writing a mod that even you wouldn't actually use?

You're asking for a mod that doesn't actually have a use case?

Because it's a unique idea I'm sure some people would consider using.

I would use it for missions lasting few days, at most. That's my limit. Some people would use it for ones lasting few hours, maybe even few weeks. I think the best feature is that it follows an atomic clock no matter what, game or computer being on or off.

It's just an idea and now it's noted on the forum. I'm not pestering anyone to actually sit and make it.

[Stevie_D]

But, the first time you try going anywhere other than the Mun or Minmus, you'll be -literally- waiting years for your ships to get to Duna or Eve and back; and thats just the closest planets. For a game which includes many planets and moons much farther out, it would limit the scope of playability to about 1/10th of the places you could go without having a playthough that -literally- lasted years.

[Superfluous J]

22 hours ago, lajoswinkler said:

Because it's a unique idea I'm sure some people would consider using.

For a mod to be written there needs to exist a person who both wants it and can write it, and then that person must have the time to do so. Many modders can, I'd bet. Heck I probably can given more time than others would need. Some of those who can would have the time, probably. However none of them would want to, including me.

The idea sounds terrible.

[Nightside]

I think this idea is really interesting, and I am surprised at the opposition to it. Sure it would change the way the game is played, making simple missions significantly more time consuming, but the rules of games are arbitrary, especially moddable games  

Conceptually this mod would break down the "4th wall" between the real world and the world of the game, much like Pokemon Go did a few years ago. I remember people being late to meetings or running outside to go catch things (I never played so I thought they were ) but it was fascinating to witness a virtual world bleeding out into the real. 

Now obviously a mod like this wouldn't have the mass appeal of Pokemon, but it could have the power to influence a players life in a similar way, forcing you to schedule other aspects of your life around the timing of a maneuver node, or alternatively, figuring out how to plan maneuver nodes to fit with your schedule. I'm not sure it would actually be fun, but it sure would be satisfying to make a successful landing on the Mun or Moon after waiting a week for the critical moment.

 

 

[Tyko]

1 hour ago, Nightside said:

I think this idea is really interesting, and I am surprised at the opposition to it. Sure it would change the way the game is played, making simple missions significantly more time consuming, but the rules of games are arbitrary, especially moddable games  

Conceptually this mod would break down the "4th wall" between the real world and the world of the game, much like Pokemon Go did a few years ago. I remember people being late to meetings or running outside to go catch things (I never played so I thought they were ) but it was fascinating to witness a virtual world bleeding out into the real. 

Now obviously a mod like this wouldn't have the mass appeal of Pokemon, but it could have the power to influence a players life in a similar way, forcing you to schedule other aspects of your life around the timing of a maneuver node, or alternatively, figuring out how to plan maneuver nodes to fit with your schedule. I'm not sure it would actually be fun, but it sure would be satisfying to make a successful landing on the Mun or Moon after waiting a week for the critical moment.

 

 

Well, you can test this theory...just leave KSP running on your computer continuously and never use time warp. There's no requirement for a mod to try this out

Go for it and check in with us a few weeks and let us know how it's going. I'd be intrigued to hear your report.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Tyko

[Kryxal]

This sort of reminds me of one piece of music: As Slow As Possible

[JH4C]

I just keep thinking about this...

https://xkcd.com/2061/

Edited November 11, 2018 by JH4C
redundant word is redundant

[Nightside]

14 minutes ago, JH4C said:

I just keep thinking about this...

https://xkcd.com/2061/

 I actually wanted to play that game when I read the comic!

[lajoswinkler]

2 hours ago, Nightside said:

I think this idea is really interesting, and I am surprised at the opposition to it. Sure it would change the way the game is played, making simple missions significantly more time consuming, but the rules of games are arbitrary, especially moddable games  

Conceptually this mod would break down the "4th wall" between the real world and the world of the game, much like Pokemon Go did a few years ago. I remember people being late to meetings or running outside to go catch things (I never played so I thought they were ) but it was fascinating to witness a virtual world bleeding out into the real. 

Now obviously a mod like this wouldn't have the mass appeal of Pokemon, but it could have the power to influence a players life in a similar way, forcing you to schedule other aspects of your life around the timing of a maneuver node, or alternatively, figuring out how to plan maneuver nodes to fit with your schedule. I'm not sure it would actually be fun, but it sure would be satisfying to make a successful landing on the Mun or Moon after waiting a week for the critical moment.

 

 

Exactly, you got the gist.

The particularly passionate opposition is there because some people don't have the patience to read and understand the proposition, but feel the need to stomp something. For example, even though I explicitly explained this is basically for close-to-Kerbin missions, lots of folks (in one online group) attacked it vehemently "because you can't go to outer planets in your lifetime".

Or, even though I explicitly explain the whole point of the atomic clock synchronization is to be able to turn off both the computer and the game, tons of people started squealing about how they don't want to keep the computer running the game for days or longer.

Or when you ask them to evaluate something in a general way, regardless of the decision not to use it or have benefit from it, they say it's crap because it's all about them. If it doesn't bother them, it's automatically crap.

No matter how much you explain, they don't listen, and when you get annoyed by the avalanche of verbal vomit, they even feel offended(!) by it and start vomiting even more.

 

It's partially an indictment of the way Internet has been evolving during the past ten years, and some other things I'm not allowed to say on this forum or I'll get banned again.

[Gargamel]

Conceptually, this seems very simple to mod.   When you load up the game, the mod has recorded the last known save time (Real Time) and the current real time, and time warps ahead to the point in game time that corresponds to the time that has elapsed in real life.    I think it's a fairly "simple" mod.   Would make for some interesting game play.   You would have to set real world schedules for maneuvers and such.  It would be interesting to just pop open the game for a few moments to do whatever you had to do, and then close it and load up another install.   

Some interesting gameplay possibilities.   Not for everyone.  But considering there are people out there who have run real time missions, over the course of weeks, this mod wold be a great help to them.

So yes there's a market for it, a very small one, but it exists. 

[kerbiloid]

Just what was the Apollo crew doing for several days of the flight?
At least they could be cleaning the cabin and reading the books or so.

What would be doing a KSP player for several real days while his KSP ship keeps flying between the planet and the Moon?
Just cleaning his room and reading the books, imagining that he is doing this onboard a spaceship.

So, this mod should be a part of some Internal Ship Micro Management mod.

Edited November 12, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Superfluous J]

9 hours ago, Gargamel said:

It would be interesting to just pop open the game for a few moments

Even unmodded, nobody can pop open the game in a few moments.

My opposition isn't to the idea itself. It's to the idea that you'll find someone with both the knowledge to mod KSP and the desire to make the mod.

[ZooNamedGames]

Interesting concept.

I would like to address deep space concerns. People comment how long it would take, but remember; a trip to and from the moon takes only 6-8 real life hours, and that's just a normal periapsis launch to the moon, which could easily be accelerated and the timeframe reduced further if one was diligent and willing to crunch the numbers.

Even a trip to Eeloo, the most distant planet in the game, would only take a few months, at most a year or two for a trip to the planet, land, and then return. Trips to Eve and Duna would take a week, to two to three weeks. Varying based on planet locations and transfer windows. Can't speak for Moho/Dres/Jool but they would only take a month or two to reach.

You reach the generation ship problem of KSP when traveling to other stars in KSP, using stock parts. Granted, it would take most of your lifetime to reach another KSP star even at max timewarp, much less time warpless.

Just some thoughts.

[Kerbart]

I like the idea. I wonder if it can be taken a step further:

• Ships without crew and radio contact would automatically be flipped to “debris” status (and “unflipped” when again in radio reach) to simulate the blackouts.
• Some integrated “upload/download state” function that integrates storing the save file on a repository. This would allow multiple players accessing the same game allowing for team play. You might be sleeping but the Honolulu crew will manage that lunar orbit insertion burn. Not the same/intended as multiplayer, mind you (at least not in the sense of what most here expect to be multi player).
• The ability to have pre-programmed pod operations (RT style).
• Speaking of RT: signal delay.