Xd the great Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Starship comes in gun blazing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightside Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Xd the great said: Starship comes in gun blazing... Nah, Starship will be the rescue mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Starship will wreck all kinds of stuff. The Apollo LEMs threw some rocks right off the Moon with their exhaust. Starship is going to throw rocks all over the place, and at velocities of a couple km/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 This has never, ever backfired. Ever. Not even around the 50th anniversary of the October Revolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 7 hours ago, Nightside said: Nah, Starship will be the rescue mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, DDE said: Imagine NASA having an orion capsule in need of rescue and SpaceX launches a starship to save it. Then Elon charges NASA like a taxi... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canopus Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 @Xd the great did you ever think about applying to get into SpaceX PR departement? Because you should get payed for all the hard work you are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 12 minutes ago, Canopus said: @Xd the great did you ever think about applying to get into SpaceX PR departement? Because you should get payed for all the hard work you are doing. Am considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Are spaceplanes appropriate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Are spaceplanes appropriate? Well, if you can build a spaceplane capable of SSTO and TLI and landing and returning to Earth with a decent payload... Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 But they are talking about a lunar lander, aren't they? So, a lightweight commercial lunar landing spaceplane Spoiler Step 1. Spoiler Take a commercial flyer... Step 2. Spoiler ...and make a lightweight commercial lunar landing spaceplane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDE Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 2:27 PM, Xd the great said: Well, if you can build a spaceplane capable of SSTO and TLI and landing and returning to Earth with a decent payload... Yes. Design rejected. NSWR firing destroyed airport on departure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wumpus Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 12/2/2018 at 10:41 AM, tater said: True enough. Of the group, Masten and Firefly are the ones to watch (no need to watch LockMart, we just watched them land on Mars), I think. Masten has quite a bit of actual hardware. The whole point of this round is to try and broaden the field of possible contractors for landers. (some of the companies don't even have illustrations of spacecraft yet, lol) I'd be curious if Rocket Labs is interested in modifying the Rutherford engine for restart and [deep] throttle operation. NASA appears to be assuming a RL-10 CECE (prototype throttleable RL-10), but I suspect that even without throttle modifications, the Ruthorford is closer to operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarStreak2109 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 I think this whole endeavour is stillborn. NASA is defining boundaries that are fixed along their lunar orbiting toll booth without acknowledging that there may be better strategies that can be put into place sooner and much safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xd the great Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, StarStreak2109 said: I think this whole endeavour is stillborn. NASA is defining boundaries that are fixed along their lunar orbiting toll booth without acknowledging that there may be better strategies that can be put into place sooner and much safer. Not surprising, especially when you have a quarter of the Government breathing down your back... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 On 2/17/2019 at 3:47 AM, DDE said: Design rejected. NSWR firing destroyed airport on departure. I see what you did there. (No pun, just funny.) 21 hours ago, wumpus said: I'd be curious if Rocket Labs is interested in modifying the Rutherford engine for restart and [deep] throttle operation. NASA appears to be assuming a RL-10 CECE (prototype throttleable RL-10), but I suspect that even without throttle modifications, the Ruthorford is closer to operation. Electric architecture is really very ideal for cislunar operation, since you need electrical storage anyway. I don't know if the batteries would be easy to rate for long-term exposure to space. NASA would still exist on hypergolics for ascent engines, obviously. Too bad kerosene is crappy for cislunar operations. SpaceX had notional plans for a Rutherford-class pressure-fed methane-oxygen thruster for Starship RCS, though Elon has since stated that they will use cold-gas only in initial flight articles. If they dusted this off and put a little R&D into electric pumps, it could make a hell of a good landing engine. If only Elon had connections to some kind of company that makes reliable electric motors and batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, sevenperforce said: Electric architecture is really very ideal for cislunar operation They should be mining lunar dust and deliver it to LLO as a propellant for electric engines. In printed stone cans. P.S. The printed stone capsules can deliver something to Earth. P.P.S. I don't joke about the dust. Edited February 18, 2019 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 26, 2019 Author Share Posted February 26, 2019 https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-selects-experiments-for-possible-lunar-flights-in-2019 Quote The selected payloads include a variety of scientific instruments. The Linear Energy Transfer Spectrometer will measure the lunar surface radiation environment. Three resource prospecting instruments have been selected to fly: The Near-Infrared Volatile Spectrometer System is an imaging spectrometer that will measure surface composition. The Neutron Spectrometer System and Advanced Neutron Measurements at the Lunar Surface are neutron spectrometers that will measure hydrogen abundance. The Ion-Trap Mass Spectrometer for Lunar Surface Volatiles instrument is an ion-trap mass spectrometer that will measure volatile contents in the surface and lunar exosphere. A magnetometer will measure the surface magnetic field. The Low-frequency Radio Observations from the Near Side Lunar Surface instrument, a radio science instrument, will measure the photoelectron sheath density near the surface. Three instruments will acquire critical information during entry, descent and landing on the lunar surface, which will inform the design of future landers including the next human lunar lander. The Stereo Cameras for Lunar Plume-Surface Studies will image the interaction between the lander engine plume as it hits the lunar surface. The Surface and Exosphere Alterations by Landers payload will monitor how the landing affects the lunar exosphere. The Navigation Doppler Lidar for Precise Velocity and Range Sensing payload will make precise velocity and ranging measurements during the descent that will help develop precision landing capabilities for future landers. There also are two technology demonstrations selected to fly. The Solar Cell Demonstration Platform for Enabling Long-Term Lunar Surface Power will demonstrate advanced solar arrays for longer mission duration. The Lunar Node 1 Navigation Demonstrator will demonstrate a navigational beacon to assist with geolocation for lunar orbiting spacecraft and landers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted February 27, 2019 Author Share Posted February 27, 2019 Apparently some talk later today about CLPS and NASA lunar plans (not for a few hours): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnemoe Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 So cute an rover with an tiny cub I assume this is just that they can make both tiny and large rovers depending on budget and missions. Not that they plan to use an large rover as an carrier for small ones as indicated in image. Think purpose of this program is to bring down cost of Moon exploring missions a lot. Its not for flagship missions but primarily to check out potential interesting stuff, perhaps also high risk missions like lava tunnels. How about an polar mission to look for ice. One higher profile mission might be to spam sample return missions from interesting places. I see an issue with lots of NASA projects in that they develop lots of one time use technology, granted lots of stuff. Yes plenty of mission is low value to repeat like the low solar flyby or even an orbital satellite but rovers are different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wjolcz Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 On 2/15/2019 at 3:43 AM, tater said: Starship will wreck all kinds of stuff. The Apollo LEMs threw some rocks right off the Moon with their exhaust. Starship is going to throw rocks all over the place, and at velocities of a couple km/s. Sorry for quoting this like that but I only just saw this thread. Makes me wonder how they will deal with this problem. Land far away and then drive to base?Have a landing hole/trench with exhaust channels directing the gas and debris upwards and away from the base (basically a reverse launch pad)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Quote The Apollo LEMs threw some rocks right off the Moon with their exhaust. Starship is going to throw rocks all over the place, and at velocities of a couple km/s. Oops... Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 They'll either want to improve the surface, put berms around landing areas, or possibly both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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