[1.8.1-1] [PLEASE FORK ME] Kopernicus & KittopiaTech

[Sigma88]

8 minutes ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

See above, I did one test with OPM and another with no packs at all, only Squad, Kopernicus, Moduleflightintegrator, and MM. Both got spammed.

could you share the logs of the stock system with kopernicus but no planet packs?

I suppose that's the best setup for this kind of issue

[Waxing_Kibbous]

43 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

could you share the logs of the stock system with kopernicus but no planet packs?

I suppose that's the best setup for this kind of issue

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3k1sdo4zkdgdyk/kopspam2.zip?dl=0

There is also a save, just go to the orbiting craft and toggle between map and vessel with 'M." I noticed something odd, there was a mention of a man. node before the spam, but no node exists.

PS plz don't kill Val

Edited May 23, 2017 by Waxing_Kibbous

[frencrs]

2 hours ago, Galileo said:

What packs are you guys running?

This is the frustrating thing, the problem occurs with a brand new KSP install with nothing but MM and ModularFlightIntegrator and Kopernicus installed. In career mode it only occurs in the map view AFTER upgrading the tracking station to allow maneuver nodes. 

EDIT:

Forgot to mention, I'm using 64-bit Linux as well.

Edited May 24, 2017 by frencrs

[Pretorian28715]

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 8:35 AM, Sigma88 said:

if you share the logs we can take a look and see what is going wrong

shared in the Mod's thread, and here

Clean Install of KSP 1.2.2, with only Kopernicus, ModuleManager and TheVerse installed

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8rJGx3hp3uJdE9yWFlYTDVHXzg/view?usp=sharing

Thanks to any that can help.

Edited May 24, 2017 by Pretorian28715

[Pretorian28715]

Also can you: -
 

PQSMods
{
}

or does it have to be: -
 

PQS
{
	Mods
	{
	}
}

 

[Galileo]

1 minute ago, Pretorian28715 said:

Also can you: -
 

PQSMods
{
}

or does it have to be: -
 

PQS
{
	Mods
	{
	}
}

 

Second one

[Pretorian28715]

On Mon May 22 2017 at 0:36 PM, Pretorian28715 said:

--snip--

  Reveal hidden contents

@Kopernicus :AFTER[Kopernicus]    
{     
 Body    
 {    
  name =  Bernadette  
     
  flightGlobalsIndex =  502  
     
  Debug   
  {   
   exportMesh = false  
   update = true  
  }   
     
  Template   
  {   
   name =   Tylo 
   removeAllPQSMods = True  
  }   
     
  Properties   
  {   
   radius =   529100 
   geeASL =   0.9982 
   tidallyLocked =   FALSE 
   rotationPeriod =   86400 
   description =   TBC 
     
   ScienceValues   
   {  
    landedDataValue =  8
    splashedDataValue =  7
    flyingLowDataValue =  5
    flyingHighDataValue =  4
    inSpaceLowDataValue =  6
    inSpaceHighDataValue =  4
    recoveryValue =  5
   }  
  }   
     
  Orbit   
  {   
   referenceBody =   White Sun 
   inclination =   0.562 
   eccentricity =   0 
   semiMajorAxis =   112198682112 
   longitudeOfAscendingNode =  0 
   argumentOfPeriapsis =  354.24 
   meanAnomalyAtEpoch =  0.142 
   epoch =  0 
   color =  rgba( 226, 225, 245 ,1)
  }   
     
  ScaledVersion   
  {   
   Material  
   {      
    texture =   TheVerse\PluginData\Earth_Color.dds
    normals =   TheVerse\PluginData\Earth_Normal.dds
   }  
  }   
     
  PQSMods   
  {   
     
   VertexHeightMap  
   }  
    map =  TheVerse\PluginData\Earth_Height.dds
    deformity =  5000
    scaleDeformityByRadius =  FALSE
    offset =  0
    enabled =  TRUE
    order =  10
   }  
     
   VertexHeightNoise  
   }  
    noiseType =  RiggedMultifractal
    deformity =  3000
    frequency =   6
    persistence =  0.2
    lacunarity =  2.5
    octaves =  7
    mode =  Low
    seed =  23690
    enabled =  TRUE
    order =  15
   }  
     
   VertexSimplexHeightAbsolute  
   }  
    deformity =  500
    octaves =  12
    persistence =  0.3
    frequency =  24
    seed =  28715
    enabled =  TRUE
    order =  25
   }  
     
   VertexColorMap  
   {  
    map =  TheVerse\PluginData\Earth_Color.dds
    enabled =  TRUE
    order =  20
   }  
     
     
  }   
     
 }    
}     
 

 

@Galileo do you see any other errors in the cfg code in the spoiler above.

I'm gonna figure pastebin tomorrow too

[Galileo]

11 minutes ago, Pretorian28715 said:

@Galileo do you see any other errors in the cfg code in the spoiler above.

I'm gonna figure pastebin tomorrow too

Yep you are still using PQSMods{} instead of just Mods{} and you need to check the opening brackets on those PQS mods. You are not using an opening bracket, instead you are closing then closing again.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Galileo

[Pretorian28715]

6 hours ago, Galileo said:

Yep you are still using PQSMods{} instead of just Mods{} and you need to check the opening brackets on those PQS mods. You are not using an opening bracket, instead you are closing then closing again.

This is the original cfg so haven't been able to change it yet. Also not had chance to sort the slashes yet I think.

So other than that are there any obvious things I've missed or don't need?

[OhioBob]

8 hours ago, Pretorian28715 said:

So other than that are there any obvious things I've missed or don't need?

Other than the PQSMods thing, I don't see anything obvious.  There are some things you could have added but didn't, like timewarpAltitudeLimits for example.  When you don't specify something like that, you'll get the values of the template.  I presume you'll eventually add biomes and an atmosphere?

[Pretorian28715]

1 minute ago, OhioBob said:

Other than the PQSMods thing, I don't see anything obvious.  There are some things you could have added but didn't, like timewarpAltitudeLimits for example.  When you don't specify something like that, you'll get the values of the template.  I presume you'll eventually add biomes and an atmosphere?

Yes, need to add things like that, but want the planets to 'work' first and Yes Biomes and Atmo's are in the to do list [think it might take a while as there are 7 Gas Giants, 69 Planets and 179 Moons though, and another 15ish Station/Moons].

Regarding the Atmospheres looks like I have the right persons attention, quick question then, is there a formula for how much Atmosphere a planet/moon will have based on its size/mass etc... or would you mind helping with them?

I only ask as you seem to be the goto person for Atmosphere Questions

[Galileo]

3 minutes ago, Pretorian28715 said:

Yes, need to add things like that, but want the planets to 'work' first and Yes Biomes and Atmo's are in the to do list [think it might take a while as there are 7 Gas Giants, 69 Planets and 179 Moons though, and another 15ish Station/Moons].

Regarding the Atmospheres looks like I have the right persons attention, quick question then, is there a formula for how much Atmosphere a planet/moon will have based on its size/mass etc... or would you mind helping with them?

I only ask as you seem to be the goto person for Atmosphere Questions

Far too many bodies in my opinion. That alone would scare me away, but with that tool above, you can easily do it yourself

Edited May 25, 2017 by Galileo

[OhioBob]

23 minutes ago, Pretorian28715 said:

Regarding the Atmospheres looks like I have the right persons attention, quick question then, is there a formula for how much Atmosphere a planet/moon will have based on its size/mass etc... or would you mind helping with them?

For making an atmosphere, I recommend you use the tools I've developed for this, which @Galileo just linked too.

To answer your specific question, no, I have not been able to derive any particular formula to determine how much atmosphere a planet should have.  There is a formula to determine what gases a planet should be able to retain based on size and temperature (included in my spreadsheet), but not what a planet's surface pressure should be.  Just look at our own solar system.  We have Earth and Venus very similar in size, yet Venus has nearly 100 times the surface pressure.  And then we have a small body like Titan that has nearly 1.5 times Earth surface pressure.  (And considering Titan's low surface gravity, the mass of the atmosphere per unit area is about 10 times Earth.)  And then we have other bodies with extremely thin atmospheres.  There is just so much extreme variability that coming with a formula has proven impossible.

For most other parts of the atmosphere modeling process I've been able to come up with formulas to at least make some suggestions, but deciding what surface pressure to give your planet is still entirely up to you.  Generally speaking, I think the larger and colder a planet is, the more likely it is to have a think atmosphere.  But other than that, I don't have much advice.
 

Edited May 25, 2017 by OhioBob

[Pretorian28715]

32 minutes ago, Galileo said:

Far too many bodies in my opinion. That alone would scare me away, but with that tool above, you can easily do it yourself

Which was why I wanted a formula for it.

Oh well, I have a thread to read later. Thanks for your help.

As it is a recreation then have to have that many, but I do recommend not loading the moon's if you think your PC won't like it/would melt.

[OhioBob]

@Pretorian28715, although I haven't officially released a formula to compute surface pressure, there is a method I sometimes use as a rough guideline to help me determine the surface pressure of one planet versus another.

If you use my atmosphere spreadsheet, there is a number given in cell M33 titled "Minimum molecular weight retained."  The lower that number, the more effective the planet is at retaining an atmosphere.  Also important in determining the surface pressure is the surface gravity.  If the atmospheres of two bodies have the same mass per unit area, the one with the greater surface gravity will have the higher surface pressure (where surface pressure is weight per unit area).

So what I end up doing it taking the planet's surface gravity and dividing it by the minimum molecular weight retained.  This gives a parameter that can be used to estimate roughly the ratio of one planet's surface pressure to another (assuming the planets evolved similarly).  The surface pressures can still vary considerably, but at least this gives us something to start with so we're not just making wild guesses.

(edit 1)

If forced to write a formula, I'd use

P = 5 * g / M

where P is surface pressure in atmospheres, g is surface gravity is standard gravities, and M is minimum molecular weight retained in g/mole.  The constant 5 is used so that when the formula is applied to Earth we get a surface pressure of about 1 atmosphere.

Let me remind you that this is only a very rough estimation.  Wild variation is possible.

(edit 2)

For gas giants, I just use a standard value for the datum level pressure.  For stock sized planets I typically use 15 atmospheres, only because that's the pressure at Jool's datum.  For RSS we used a pressure of 1000 atm.  Whatever value you decide to use, I recommend you use the same for all gas giants.
 

Edited May 25, 2017 by OhioBob

[Pretorian28715]

5 hours ago, OhioBob said:

@Pretorian28715, although I haven't officially released a formula to compute surface pressure, there is a method I sometimes use as a rough guideline to help me determine the surface pressure of one planet versus another.

--snip--
 

Thanks for that once I get my head around the atmosphere thread Galileo mentioned earlier I shall see what I can make of this.

But I think you may have over complicated this a bit. What I was thinking is if, as per Firefly canon, each planet and moon was terraformed to match Earth then the atmosphere would have been Kerbin like, so suppose Kerbalkind discovered the System some time after Humans had left for one reason or the other. What atmosphere would each planet and moon retain? 

So if I have a moon that has a radius of 150km that has a geeASL of 1.003 [Sci-fi stuff] what if any of the original 70km of atmosphere would be left?

Hope you can understand where I'm going with this, because I'm either going to workout the remaining or just dump Kerbins Atmosphere on all of them.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Pretorian28715

[Sigma88]

Please Note:

Kopernicus is version locked, which means it won't work in KSP 1.3

Please refrain from complaining about this and/or asking for an update.

The update will come when it's ready.

[OhioBob]

1 hour ago, Pretorian28715 said:

Thanks for that once I get my head around the atmosphere thread Galileo mentioned earlier I shall see what I can make of this.

But I think you may have over complicated this a bit. What I was thinking is if, as per Firefly canon, each planet and moon was terraformed to match Earth then the atmosphere would have been Kerbin like, so suppose Kerbalkind discovered the System some time after Humans had left for one reason or the other. What atmosphere would each planet and moon retain? 

So if I have a moon that has a radius of 150km that has a geeASL of 1.003 [Sci-fi stuff] what if any of the original 70km of atmosphere would be left?

Hope you can understand where I'm going with this, because I'm either going to workout the remaining or just dump Kerbins Atmosphere on all of them.

As long as the planet is big enough and has the right temperature to retain the gas to begin with, it should be able to hold onto it indefinitely.  If a gas is lighter than the "minimum molecular weight retained", it will eventually leak away into space and be lost.  And of course there are some gases that are removed by natural processes and need constant replenishment by other processes.  If the process that supplies the gas stops, the gas will eventually be removed from the atmosphere.  Solar wind will also strip away an atmosphere, particularly if the planet has no magnetic field.

There's no easy answer.  You're just going to have to make an educated guess.

[Rory Yammomoto]

NEVER MIND.I guess I just did this reflexively.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Rory Yammomoto

[Sigma88]

24 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

1.3?

The answer is literally 2 posts before yours.

do you even bother looking at the screen?

[Galileo]

26 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

1.3?

are you kidding? I wouldn't be surprised if for every time someone asks, it gets pushed back a day.

 

30 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

NEVER MIND.I guess I just did this reflexively.

It shouldn't even be reflexively. It's a forum rule.

Edited May 27, 2017 by Galileo

[Red Iron Crown]

40 minutes ago, Galileo said:

It's a forum rule.

It is not any more. But it is certainly poor behavior.

[Galileo]

10 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said:

It is not any more. But it is certainly poor behavior.

When/why did that change? 

 

[Rory Yammomoto]

1 hour ago, Sigma88 said:

The answer is literally 2 posts before yours.

do you even bother looking at the screen?

I didn't, I guess. I'm sorry.

[Red Iron Crown]

2 minutes ago, Galileo said:

When/why did that change? 

 

A couple of months ago. The rule was not having the desired effect: It did not reduce instances of the behavior, and it often forced us to moderate new members who were asking what they thought was an innocent question about their favorite mod.

Almost as big a problem are the posters who "white knight" for modders and smack down people in threads about it. Word to the wise for anyone reading: If you are not the modder or a moderator you have no business telling people not to ask questions in a mod thread. Please stop this toxic behavior, it is not helpful. If you feel a post is out of line, hit report and we'll look at it. If it is not moderated, don't do so yourself.

This is getting a bit off-topic here, anyone who would like to discuss it further is welcome to PM or start a thread about it in the Kerbal Network.