Maybe we should do what Orbiter did and have a "community standard mod pack"

[Jestersage]

While I played around BDB parts -- and love the options, in the end I decide to stick with DLC. There is a few reasons for that:

1. The biggest point: I know it will work with the newest thing. I don't need the other side to think about dependency. Because it does not require dependency, the user, both me can just pay and go.
2. Some mods make it too complicate. For exmaple, BDB requires hydrogen, which in turns require another mod, etc. etc.

The reason I am putting this out, however, is because of the 2nd EULA change, and I am hoping this community -- especially those that are not happy about the change, or those that sympathic with those who is willing to boycott 1.7+/1.5+, can work out something so that while they are actually free mods, it can some kind become a set of mods everyone who agree to will download -- just like how Orbiter community will always have a given set of their own mods on top of the barebone game.

I am not asking about changing BDB. Because I know for every one person that want simplicity, there's another one who want to factor in the change in fuel. That being said, I am thinking if it's possible for the community as a whole can work to get so that:

1. Ensure compatibility within this subset of community. I think one way to do this is to focus on 1.6.1 and 1.4.2 respectively (when the EULA was changed). This also help keep the maintainence of the mod/mod pack simple.
2. Provide a set of functions that is similar, if not better than DLC/graphics improvement, namely in parts and launchsite
3. Keep it simple, not just in terms of install, but also in terms of gameplay. I think resource management should stick to the stock system. By point 1, it can be kept simple easier, as we no longer have to factor the mods being broken
4. Provide "mods" that focus on fixing the bugs within.
5. Do not worry about anything beyond the subset.

Yes, this will split the community, but I think at this point, it's already did.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jestersage

[Gargamel]

Mod packs have been discussed many many times here, and have pretty much failed to gain any traction.

1)  Licensing.    Not all mods have the same license, and getting the modders to agree on a single license will be harder than herding cats.   Some of the mods that would be up for selection don't even allow redistribution. 

2) Choice.    My standard mod set might be vastly different than yours.   Why should any one group of people get to decide how others play the game?  Why should my potato machine be forced to slog along with the visual mods decreed by others to be canon?  What happens when another modder comes along with a better version of a mod, especially one that is a bug fix or visual?

 

I'm ok with a set of mod lists for styles of gameplay, listing known combinations of mods that are known to play well with each other.   But to have a mod set that becomes canon is pretty much against what we have here as a community.   I applaud the effort to streamline the game in general, but I don't believe it's a feasible option for KSP. 

[Jestersage]

No problem -- it is just a suggestion.

It's just that, while I am firmly on the side of "I will let T2 do what they want, even if they crank out DLC as much as Starbreeze and steal the mods", I also want to see if community would be interested for a 'certain canon". Granted, we are also likely bigger than Orbiter community...

In a sense, this is also my proposal for people who complained about the direction of KSP is going.

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jestersage

[Tyko]

BDB is a very popular mod, but you don't want it. So if the mods in your proposed pack were picked by popularity it would include BDB - which you already said you don't want...see the problem with mod packs?

[Jestersage]

5 hours ago, Tyko said:

BDB is a very popular mod, but you don't want it. So if the mods in your proposed pack were picked by popularity it would include BDB - which you already said you don't want...see the problem with mod packs?

Point taken.

[Poodmund]

12 hours ago, Tyko said:

BDB is a very popular mod, but you don't want it.

Does not compute.

[Stone Blue]

18 hours ago, Tyko said:

BDB is a very popular mod, but you don't want it.

I agree...

BDB is for people who love those smelly, saliva-dripping, ADHD creatures called canines (colloquially known as *dogs* ...blech...)

You really want a mod pack based on high-quality parts, and for those who prefer the more refined and dignified lifestyle of those who prefer the Feline Master Race...

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Stone Blue

[CobaltWolf]

>Implying BDB is popular

[Tyko]

On 3/16/2019 at 2:39 AM, Poodmund said:

Does not compute.

The OP started the post explaining that they'd already tried BDB but decided against using it. My point was that any parts pack could include mods that weren't wanted, so that makes a parts pack less desirable versus being able to pick and choose.    

[Jestersage]

 

On 3/22/2019 at 12:25 PM, Tyko said:

The OP started the post explaining that they'd already tried BDB but decided against using it. My point was that any parts pack could include mods that weren't wanted, so that makes a parts pack less desirable versus being able to pick and choose.    

Thank you. Basically, compare to the complexity of the DLC vs BDB. Just because subjectively it's not complicated does not mean objectively it's easy to use.

[Tyko]

11 hours ago, Jestersage said:

Thank you. Basically, compare to the complexity of the DLC vs BDB. Just because subjectively it's not complicated does not mean objectively it's easy to use.

Yep, and if there was a mod pack, as you propose, then you'd be dumping in a bunch of mods at once. You'd instantly add all this complexity and it could be a bit overwhelming. Better to be able to go through each mod, figure out what it does, decide if you like it, then move on to the next one.

[Jestersage]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:12 AM, Tyko said:

Yep, and if there was a mod pack, as you propose, then you'd be dumping in a bunch of mods at once. You'd instantly add all this complexity and it could be a bit overwhelming. Better to be able to go through each mod, figure out what it does, decide if you like it, then move on to the next one.

Actually, it reduce complexity, because a properly made mod pack is going to be easier.

It's kind of like Linux, Ubuntu, and Android -- Ubuntu is like a multiple mods, while Android is the mod pack where everything is within the ecosystem. The Ubuntu, pushing for everyone figure things out, did not fly to replace Window, but Android does. (Apple, of course, go one further to rigidly enforce it, but that's closer to DLC) Anything outside, do not consider it.

Hence I think a community mod pack would actually work.

[Tyko]

9 minutes ago, Jestersage said:

On 3/24/2019 at 7:12 AM, Tyko said:

Yep, and if there was a mod pack, as you propose, then you'd be dumping in a bunch of mods at once. You'd instantly add all this complexity and it could be a bit overwhelming. Better to be able to go through each mod, figure out what it does, decide if you like it, then move on to the next one.

Actually, it reduce complexity, because a properly made mod pack is going to be easier.

It's kind of like Linux, Ubuntu, and Android -- Ubuntu is like a multiple mods, while Android is the mod pack where everything is within the ecosystem. The Ubuntu, pushing for everyone figure things out, did not fly to replace Window, but Android does. (Apple, of course, go one further to rigidly enforce it, but that's closer to DLC) Anything outside, do not consider it.

Hence I think a community mod pack would actually work.

I wasn't referring to the complexity of the install. I was building on what you said above "Just because subjectively it's not complicated does not mean objectively it's easy to use."  In this case, installing a mod pack is subjectively not complicated, but dropping a couple dozen mods with all their extra parts and extra functionality at once is going to be "hard to use" at first... 

[Jestersage]

24 minutes ago, Tyko said:

I wasn't referring to the complexity of the install. I was building on what you said above "Just because subjectively it's not complicated does not mean objectively it's easy to use."  In this case, installing a mod pack is subjectively not complicated, but dropping a couple dozen mods with all their extra parts and extra functionality at once is going to be "hard to use" at first... 

Right... all mods are pretty complicated to be honest.

[Tyko]

58 minutes ago, Jestersage said:

Right... all mods are pretty complicated to be honest.

Not really...especially if you add one at a time and figure out what it does before adding another. If you added a couple dozen mods via a mod pack though it could be overwhelming.

[Jestersage]

29 minutes ago, Tyko said:

Not really...especially if you add one at a time and figure out what it does before adding another. If you added a couple dozen mods via a mod pack though it could be overwhelming.

Okay, let's flip it around: why do you think Squad is able to do it properly and fine with the DLC and the free updates, that Community cannot solve it with mods?

My suggestion is basically to give community who refuse to move to newer versions the features and fix available from the newer version, including DLC. I picked BDB only because it's the closest to DLC (technically better but far more complicated)

Edited March 27, 2019 by Jestersage

[Tyko]

3 hours ago, Jestersage said:

Okay, let's flip it around: why do you think Squad is able to do it properly and fine with the DLC and the free updates, that Community cannot solve it with mods?

My suggestion is basically to give community who refuse to move to newer versions the features and fix available from the newer version, including DLC. I picked BDB only because it's the closest to DLC (technically better but far more complicated)

Maybe they can...maybe they can't. You'll first need to convince modders to write their mods for an older version of the game and maintain two code streams, one for that old version (or is it two? 1.4.2 and 1.6.1?) and one for the current version of the game. Since modders are working for free that may be a tough sell.

Good luck though 

[Jestersage]

15 hours ago, Tyko said:

Maybe they can...maybe they can't. You'll first need to convince modders to write their mods for an older version of the game and maintain two code streams, one for that old version (or is it two? 1.4.2 and 1.6.1?) and one for the current version of the game. Since modders are working for free that may be a tough sell.

Good luck though  

I am thinking of just one. Basically, just 1.6.1 and older, and is specifically targetting people who dislike teh direction of KSp is going.

[goldenpsp]

Ok so I've kind of followed this thread and honestly it still just doesn't make much sense.  For one @Jestersage you have failed to really explain the details of your concept.  I don't play orbiter so I have no context for your proposal.  For instance while there are a small number of "Quality of life" mods for KSP that most people use, for the most part modded KSP games are highly specialized.   For example some people love the colony type stuff and go for life support and associated mods.  Some players like exploring new planets so they are doing planet packs. 

So outside of a very small number of QOL mods I don't see what you would consider a "core" modpack to begin with.  You have not put forth any details on what you would consider to actually be in a "community standard" mod pack.

Aside from that it seems to me that what you are trying to achieve would be served via CKAN.  There are plenty of people who have created, i'll call them "mod based experiences" where they have created a combination of mods and modulemanager configs to make a specific playthrough.  In these cases they are not compiling the mods into a single download.  Rather they are creating a CKAN config that specifies all of the various mods and pieces required and let CKAN manage it.  This can even be done by specific KSP version as CKAN can filter for specific versions.

Now I'm not personally a CKAN fan, but it would give you the ability to make what you consider a "standard" starting point for mods while still allowing players to add whatever they wanted easily.

[jwenting]

And even those few, there's people who'd disagree. MechJeb or KER for example... KW or SpaceY... And so it goes on and on...