Kerbal Space Program Breaks Ground with a New DLC!

[Chel]

I really, really, really, don't want this to turn into 'want new parts? That'll be $20'. Unlike MH, this DLC seems to be 'let's turn all these new parts and features into a DLC, while they were planned for stock'. MH makes sense as to why it's a DLC, this, does not. I don't want to see this great game become ruined by corporate greed and the practice of putting profits over people, I really don't.

[MechBFP]

7 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

I really, really, really, don't want this to turn into 'want new parts? That'll be $20'. Unlike MH, this DLC seems to be 'let's turn all these new parts and features into a DLC, while they were planned for stock'. MH makes sense as to why it's a DLC, this, does not. I don't want to see this great game become ruined by corporate greed and the practice of putting profits over people, I really don't.

Real life doesn’t work that way. There is nothing greedy about making a profit on a product you built. None of this was ‘planned’ for stock, and even if it was it still doesn’t matter. 

You know what IS greedy though? Getting 1000+ hours out of a game that a person might have got on a 50% off sale and still expecting more free stuff. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by MechBFP

[Chel]

Just now, MechBFP said:

Real life doesn’t work that way. There is nothing greedy about making a profit on a product you built. None of this was ‘planned’ for stock, and even if it was it still doesn’t matter. 

Hmm... evidence? And how does it not matter? How?

[MechBFP]

Just now, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Hmm... evidence? And how does it not matter? How?

Providing evidence is on the person making the statement (that it was planned). So feel free to provide it. 

How? Read my next paragraph in my previous post. 

[Chel]

'Still expecting more free stuff' 

So we aren't supposed to expect new content for games without paying for that content, even though we already bought the game? nice 

[MechBFP]

3 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

'Still expecting more free stuff' 

So we aren't supposed to expect new content for games without paying for that content, even though we already bought the game? nice 

Yes, that’s how games work. That’s how the vast majority of games have worked for the past 30 to 40 years. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by MechBFP

[Chel]

Really? Past 30-40 years?  I'm talking about paid DLC for games (AKA the current state of games where they take content out to then put it back in as DLC), not about gaming in a whole. And as I don't want this to continue, I shall politely exit now

[razark]

1 minute ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Past 30-40 years?  I'm talking about paid DLC for games...

Yeah, I was buying DLC in the '80s and '90s back when it came on disks, was sold in a physical store, and was labeled "Expansion Pack".

[Eskandare]

1 minute ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Really? Past 30-40 years?  I'm talking about paid DLC for games (AKA the current state of games where they take content out to then put it back in as DLC), not about gaming in a whole. And as I don't want this to continue, I shall politely exit now

1992 X-wing, add-ons, Imperial Assault and B-wing about $25 per add-on

1998 Starcraft, add-on  Brood war $30

(Really the list is far too long but I put a couple of my favorites)

Granted this was before stream downloading became fast and efficient enough to distribute via cloud alone, but additional content has always cost money.

 

[klgraham1013]

30 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

I really, really, really, don't want this to turn into 'want new parts? That'll be $20'. Unlike MH, this DLC seems to be 'let's turn all these new parts and features into a DLC, while they were planned for stock'. MH makes sense as to why it's a DLC, this, does not. I don't want to see this great game become ruined by corporate greed and the practice of putting profits over people, I really don't.

Completely disagree.  This is additive to the base game.  An expansion on current features if you will.  These sort of packs were once widely accepted in the gaming community.  It's sad how much we want for free these days when we are entitled to actually very little.

20 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

So we aren't supposed to expect new content for games without paying for that content, even though we already bought the game?

No you're not.  Can we please go back to the days when you bought a complete game and no one expected anything afterwards?

[Eskandare]

9 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

No you're not.  Can we please go back to the days when you bought a complete game and no one expected anything afterwards?

So the mid 80s?

I don't expect additional content, but I will pay for additional content if it happens with a favorite game.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Eskandare

[Superfluous J]

33 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

Hmm... evidence? And how does it not matter? How?

Stock was announced complete over 4 years ago.

And it matters because without income the developers will quit, to do paid work that will feed them and their families.

33 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

So we aren't supposed to expect new content for games without paying for that content, even though we already bought the game?

Correct. You are not supposed to expect free work of any kind after agreeing to pay for a certain amount of past work.

[Phoenix84]

Here's what usually happened to games for the past 40-50 years:

Company releases a complete game, no changes, no bug fixes, nothing. It's immutable, out and done, and on to the next game.

As games came to PC (and other non-permanent media), more or less the same happened, but if you were lucky, you got bugfixes. If you were very lucky, the developer decided to release an expansion pack (ala Brood War). Even then, it was usually just one. If the game was popular, and the developers wanted to continue the franchise, they just made more games (Command & Conquer). More games you paid full cost for.

Now we get the benefit of continual fixes and improvements for many games, but that continuous work comes at a cost. That cost is additional expansion packs (now called DLC) that we pay for.

So right now, there's basically a choice: Would we rather have the current game maintained, and added to, or would we rather halt all development and have the devs start work on a new game, say, KSP 2. This of course means KSP would die (maybe get some critical security or crash fixes if we're lucky, but that's it), as there's no reason for Squad to continue development on a game that has a successor.

A new games means everyone starts over. New saves, new crafts, new mods. Starting from zero. The only thing that might carry over is part of the player base. Also, you have to re-buy it at full price (as a discount is not common in the industry).

Personally, I prefer option 1.

EDIT: If you think about it, with all the changes being made to the game, it's actually quite a different game now, than it was at 1.0. You could almost call it KSP 2.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Phoenix84

[razark]

14 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

So the mid 80s?

I'm kind of curious now.  There's (broadly) two groups here, those that think the DLC should be a usual update, and those that are fine with a paid DLC.

I would love to see the general age breakdown of those two groups.

[Eskandare]

11 minutes ago, razark said:

I'm kind of curious now.  There's (broadly) two groups here, those that think the DLC should be a usual update, and those that are fine with a paid DLC.

I would love to see the general age breakdown of those two groups.

To put it casually I'm an X gen, I never felt the false sense of entitlement that some may feel nowadays. Because of this sense of entitlement is the reason why we have a forum rule banning demands at modders to update mods. 

[shdwlrd]

36 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

1992 X-wing, add-ons, Imperial Assault and B-wing about $25 per add-on

1998 Starcraft, add-on  Brood war $30

(Really the list is far too long but I put a couple of my favorites)

Granted this was before stream downloading became fast and efficient enough to distribute via cloud alone, but additional content has always cost money.

 

There was some of my favorite games as a teen. Now I'm starting to feel old. Thanks. 

[Phoenix84]

16 minutes ago, razark said:

I'm kind of curious now.  There's (broadly) two groups here, those that think the DLC should be a usual update, and those that are fine with a paid DLC.

I would love to see the general age breakdown of those two groups.

I'm an older millennial. Old enough to grow up without a computer until about 12.

[Eskandare]

 

5 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

There was some of my favorite games as a teen. Now I'm starting to feel old. Thanks. 

I'm right there with you. They still are two of my favorites. (Super excited about the XWVM mod that updated X-wing to modern graphics)

Edited May 9, 2019 by Eskandare

[razark]

9 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

There was some of my favorite games as a teen.

X-Wing was one that came to mind.  The other one was Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe.

 

9 minutes ago, shdwlrd said:

Now I'm starting to feel old. Thanks.

Ha!  I always feel old.

 

11 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

To put it casually I'm an X gen...

I count (by most lists I've seen) as the tail end of it, myself.  However, I've found that the division by generation to be a very general correlation at best.  I've found myself being able to talk to some teens and some elders and feel much more of a connection than with people in my own age group more often.)  But then, am I a typical example of my generation?)

 

7 minutes ago, Phoenix84 said:

Old enough to grow up without a computer until about 12.

As I said, Gen X.  My (ok, the family's) first computer was a kit my dad built when I was five.  But he was an electrical engineer, so he was toward the leading edge of that movement.

Edited May 9, 2019 by razark

[Eskandare]

4 minutes ago, razark said:

Weapons of the Luftwaffe.

Ahh yes that one was awesome too! I always forget about that game.

[shdwlrd]

7 minutes ago, razark said:

The other one was Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe.

 

4 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

Ahh yes that one was awesome too! I always forget about that game.

Yep, that was a fun one too. Now I want to play Decent: Freespace and Freespace 2. I guess it's time to update DOS box...

[Eskandare]

Just now, shdwlrd said:

 

Yep, that was a fun one too. Now I want to play Decent: Freespace and Freespace 2. I guess it's time to update DOS box...

I like getting old games on gog.com X-wing works pretty good for the most part. I'm sure my old X-wing copy on floppy is still at my parents house. :-p

[klesh]

40 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Stock was announced complete over 4 years ago.

 

The sense of free update entitlement some feel probably wasn't helped by the fact that after Squad announced the game complete, they spent 3 years further "completing" it for free.  That's quite a precedent to have set and for some players who've only been playing for 3 years, that's all they know of how this developer operates.  The game that keeps on giving.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just offering a possibility of some people's thinking.

Had everything after 1.0 been a paid DLC, we'd be in City Skylines territory with a $30 game and $150 of DLC available.  Perhaps thats what some anti-DLC people are fearing KSP becoming.  I dunno, just spitballing.

[razark]

3 minutes ago, klesh said:

The sense of free update entitlement some feel probably wasn't helped by the fact that after Squad announced the game complete, they spent 3 years further "completing" it for free.

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just offering a possibility of some people's thinking.

Had everything after 1.0 been a paid DLC, we'd be in City Skylines territory with a $30 game and $150 of DLC available.

You have got a point there.

I've also been in the flight sim community, and there are companies built on products that are basically nothing but paid mods, so that may also color my thinking on it.  I mean, I paid money for an airplane that was already in the base game.

[Pthigrivi]

10 minutes ago, klesh said:

City Skylines territory with a $30 game and $150 of DLC available.  

Damn I am so glad I did not invest in that game.