Rational Resources 3.0.2 [Sep 24, 2024]

[JadeOfMaar]

2 hours ago, Charle_Roger said:

Spodumene is already oddly specific for my liking, but I suppose Lithium has to come from somewhere

Spodumene is...eh...since it's just Silicates with Lithium and Aluminium tacked on. Lithium is mainly provided by RR in case of players who may want to refuel their Lihitum-fueled NF Propulsion ion ships. I've made crewed Duna Ascent Vehicles that run on Argon and Lithium. My guess (without even installing KSPIE) is that KSPIE uses Spodumene as the ore for the uncommon Lithium-6 which is used for breeding Tritium. MetallicOre is treated as Hematite ( Fe₂O₃ ) as both Metal and Metals seem to represent Iron. Currently, I have my sights set on Pezzottaite ( Cs(Be₂Li)Al₂Si₆O₁₈ ) as the analogue for ExoticMinerals but I may add to or replace this depending on someone's mod that I'm watching out for. That mod aside, Sterling Systems (my other mod) has use for Be, Al and Si and may be updated to have a use for Li (and another unnamed resource) too.

 

2 hours ago, Charle_Roger said:

I don't want to overload it with primitive resources that all have one particular role, so I'm keeping it relatively straightforward and skipping most single-use intermediates, e.g. no Hydrates in Ore -> Water, no Gypsum in Ore -> Fertilizer and mining liquids directly rather than converting from gases

Sounds fine, I think. I might need some further examples to really get it.

Another thought: Hydrates could be expanded to replace Minerals entirely (at least on ice worlds but not on inner dry worlds. This actually sounds really nice for a mechanic. (I've seen a few minerals whose formulas feature a lump of water so all of those could possibly count as hydrates). In this case, more output resources could be given to the Hydrates Splitter recipe. A chemistry nerd friend gave me the idea of having refineries produce a lot of slag in order to reflect inefficiency and the consumption of a lot of ore...but the idea of inventing a waste resource for ISRU doesn't fly for me in a game like KSP. I now see that having lots of useful outputs but one's playstyle likely having no use for most of them would work better. The refinery will just dump every output and it's up to the player to have tanks to catch what is wanted. The refinery would be set to not stop for any resource (when there's no tank or its tanks are full or locked). The stock refineries are set to stop when either LF or OX is full or locked. This is why they feature the additional recipes for LF alone or OX alone.

Mining liquids directly vs converting from gases should be a thing already. If anything, I'm at odds with that for Kerbalism which needs Hydrogen and Oxygen to be in gas form for its fuel cell process. But RR provides phase change parts so there shouldn't be any lingering gas resources, I hope.

[Charle_Roger]

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Currently, I have my sights set on Pezzottaite ( Cs(Be₂Li)Al₂Si₆O₁₈ ) as the analogue for ExoticMinerals but I may add to or replace this depending on someone's mod that I'm watching out for. That mod aside, Sterling Systems (my other mod) has use for Be, Al and Si and may be updated to have a use for Li (and another unnamed resource) too.

Wow, good to know since although I've never used Sterling Systems I would like to have compatibility with it. I will say that if you really do want a good chemical basis for these things then just the presence of elements is not really enough, even simpler mineral splitting cases like your suggested Silicates -> Silicon + Oxygen don't really exist.

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Hydrates could be expanded to replace Minerals entirely (at least on ice worlds but not on inner dry worlds. This actually sounds really nice for a mechanic. (I've seen a few minerals whose formulas feature a lump of water so all of those could possibly count as hydrates)

A mineral with a lump (or multiple lumps) of water is the definition of an (inorganic) hydrate, so yeah. I agree it sounds nice and may fit well with my plans too. My low-tech unspecialised drill could have two mining options, Ore and Hydrates, some planets having either or both, where Ore offers metal products and Hydrates offers the Fertilizer and Water I mentioned. It might require some adjustment of RR Hydrates distribution (on my end or yours) to get the balance right. I'm imagining something like getting Water via Hydrates globally from Minmus with the low-tech drill, while on the Mun you need the high-tech ice targeting drill in the polar Water deposits.

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

I now see that having lots of useful outputs but one's playstyle likely having no use for most of them would work better. The refinery will just dump every output and it's up to the player to have tanks to catch what is wanted.

Again we have settled on exactly the same solution. My ore refineries just produce individual metal products at various efficiencies with no by-products. I originally planned to have Silicates all over the place representing slag but I may remove it entirely and just have Ore -> Silicon.

3 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Mining liquids directly vs converting from gases should be a thing already. If anything, I'm at odds with that for Kerbalism which needs Hydrogen and Oxygen to be in gas form for its fuel cell process. But RR provides phase change parts so there shouldn't be any lingering gas resources, I hope.

Speaking from my experience playing with RR, I started finding Hydrogen and Oxygen which I couldn't harvest because I have no mods that use them, so I'm going to just cut out the middle man and deal only in liquids (where applicable) like Nertea's mods do. If Kerbalism is the only thing requiring gases, then that should be a special case that requires extra converters.

[BlueZeus]

Hi, just had a question regarding deuterium production. As I understand it the Hydrolox ISRU produces Liquid Deuterium as a byproduct, but once my liquid hydrogen tanks are full the ISRU of course stops. Is there some way to allow it to keep going until the deuterium tanks are full as well? I see on the first page that the water splitter ISRU should also be producing deuterium but it's not filling the deuterium tanks either, just whatever hydrogen and oxygen tanks I have. If the water splitter is actually producing deuterium gas and not liquid deuterium, I don't see any of the RR gas cache tanks that can hold it. Sorry if I've missed something obvious.

[JadeOfMaar]

@BlueZeus Howdy.

1. About Hydrogen being full, you can open GameData\RationalResourcesCompanion\CRP\Opt-in_ConvertOTrons.cfg line 234 and insert the line DumpExcess = True under that like in the other OUTPUT_RESOURCE config nodes. That line "DumpExcess = True" means "Don't stop when the tanks for this are full."
2. Thanks for pointing out the missing Deuterium gas tank option. I just updated the file for that and you can download it from here by going to the toolbar that contains the "Code" and "Blame" buttons, looking near the right edge and clicking the "Download raw file" button in the set of 3 buttons. You want to overwrite the file at GameData/RationalResourcesParts/Patches/Features_GasTanks.cfg. Don't put it anywhere else or it will repeat activate and break the parts.

[BlueZeus]

Thanks so much for the help. Loving the mod so far 

[MrWalrus123]

Awesome mod, the only issue I have is that with the kerbalism configs, the atmospheric harvesters harvest the liquid forms of gasses (ie LqdOxygen, LqdCO2, etc). Would it not make more sense (especially with kerbalism) to harvest the gaseous forms of these resources?

Did some digging and found that in an older version, they did harvest the gaseous forms but as the resource distribution has it listed as the liquid forms, the harvesters were broken. Would it be okay to change the distribution and harvester configs to the gaseous forms (and use the chillers to change to liquid when needed) or would it break  the mod/resource chains?

Edited July 28 by MrWalrus123

[JadeOfMaar]

5 minutes ago, MrWalrus123 said:

Awesome mod, the only issue I have is that with the kerbalism configs, the atmospheric harvesters harvest the liquid forms of gasses (ie LqdOxygen, LqdCO2, etc). Would it not make more sense (especially with kerbalism) to harvest the gaseous forms of these resources?

Thanks. I'm glad you like. The reason why atmospheres have the resources in liquid form is that for players who don't use Kerbalism (and this mod existed for quite a while before I considered Kerbalism compatibility) I chose to back off from giving players the added trouble of dealing with huge numbers and micro densities for a resource they don't want need to keep for any significant amount of time, and back off from the extra trouble for myself, of affecting and adding a freezer module to every compatible harvester that I didn't make. I handwave all this and assume that the collector has (however small) an included freezer. For Kerbalism players I have at least provided a heater part (and a tray of eggs to bake on that heater...unless Jeb stole it) so if/when they want gas they can just as easily have it.

For the above reason I'd like to similarly affect crustal drills but I don't have a suite of new drills to offer and make it worth your while.

[darwinpatrick]

I see this is bundled into JNSQ but I don't see anything in JNSQ or its dependencies that adds a way to extract or use these new resources- are additional mods needed to fully flesh it out?

[JadeOfMaar]

9 hours ago, darwinpatrick said:

I see this is bundled into JNSQ but I don't see anything in JNSQ or its dependencies that adds a way to extract or use these new resources- are additional mods needed to fully flesh it out?

Rational Resources outgrew its status as a bundle to JNSQ. It is its own full mod and recommends its own parts pack (RR Parts) and its ISRU integration suite (RR Companion) + Stockalike Mining Extension (a 3rd party mod for ISRU parts only). This mod's primary focus is to add value to cryofuel engine mods and life support mods.

[Hide1nbush1]

Hello,

I'm getting weird B9PartSwitch Warning when starting up the game Here. Is this fixable ?

 

[tokamak_tinkerer]

dear jadeOfMaar. i'm currently trying to make rational rescources work with my install. if i understand correctly, all the ISRU chains (which i like and want to use in mu USI colonies)  are contained within the Rational Rescources Companion module, but once i install this module it makes every single mining drill capable of mining every single rescource. Is there a way i can keep the ISRU chains, but remove the config that alteres the drills? i have both MKS and planetary base systems installed, and i would like to keep their dedicated drills dedicated.

Preemptive thanks.

[JadeOfMaar]

4 hours ago, Hide1nbush1 said:

Hello,

I'm getting weird B9PartSwitch Warning when starting up the game Here. Is this fixable ?

 

Howdy. Remove Rational Resources Nuclear Family or the other mod that provides fuel switching to your nuclear engines. That mod could be Skyhawk or RealFuels-Stockalike.

3 hours ago, tokamak_tinkerer said:

dear jadeOfMaar. i'm currently trying to make rational rescources work with my install. if i understand correctly, all the ISRU chains (which i like and want to use in mu USI colonies)  are contained within the Rational Rescources Companion module, but once i install this module it makes every single mining drill capable of mining every single rescource. Is there a way i can keep the ISRU chains, but remove the config that alteres the drills? i have both MKS and planetary base systems installed, and i would like to keep their dedicated drills dedicated.

Preemptive thanks.

Howdy, tinkerer. RationalResourcesCompanion/00_DrillOMatics_Opt-in.cfg is the config that marks drills for integration. Delete that. There are other opt-in configs like it right next to it. If you need to, delete from among them too.

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 3.0.0

• Created 000_RationalResources. Split resource templates out of RationalResources folder and took a new approach to play modes. Allows for modders to easily change what the temapltes contain and are applied to planets.
• Created extra, RationalResourcesSandcastle. Still experimental. Classic Stock not yet fully supported.
  • Removed placeholder config from RationalResourcesELUtilities.
• Updated RationalResources:
  • Added asteroid and comet resource configs.
  • Added asteroid and comet analysis module to RR Ground Scanner.
  • Fixed tank ratio for D+³He.
• Updated RationalResourcesCompanion:
  • Added Sterling Systems refinery tags to Omniconverter recipe configs.
  • Updated Mopedantte Splitter process. Added Thorium to outputs.
  • Updated processes that output Deuterium to dump Hydrogen when Deuterium is wanted more than Hydrogen.
• Updated RationalResourcesNuclearFamily:
  • Added System Heat compatibility.
  • Fixed errors with thermal nozzles patch. Methane mode targeted wrong mode of dual mode engines and there was a very large inconsistency with air-breathing mode. Thanks @Velcroish on GitHub
• Updated RationalResourcesParts:
  • Added missing Deuterium to gas tank options.
  • Removed deploy/retract step for exo scoops since they do not animate.
• Updated RationalResourcesSquad:
  • Disabled Structural subtype on request (hopefully). @Grenartia Tanks should now always hold the original fuel mix.

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 3.0.1

• Updated 000_RationalResources:
  • Removed non-optional folder to make less for the player to need to remember.
  • Added an obvious file named "PickOne" concerning the folders there.
• Updated RationalResourcesNuclearFamily:
  • Fixed missing engineID issue with single-mode nukjet engines. (For players who got errors with such engines in Mk2 and Mk3 Expansion.)

 

 

[infinite_monkey]

Does 3.0.1 also fix issue #63?

[Iapetus7342]

37 minutes ago, infinite_monkey said:

Does 3.0.1 also fix issue #63?

apparently not

[JadeOfMaar]

1 hour ago, infinite_monkey said:

Does 3.0.1 also fix issue #63?

Do you have GameData/000_RationalResources/CRPDefault/ ? The B9 definition is in there now. CKAN is not aware of it yet to players will currently end up installing RR without the B9 configs or resource placement configs.

Edited September 23 by JadeOfMaar

[JadeOfMaar]

22 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Same as what Simplex does   i modelled mine on yours!

But i think i may need to spend some time writing a compatability patch.  I'm now rethinking how i do MetalParts instead of RocketParts which is where all the conflicts come in not just here but all over the place.

I'll be looking into this tonight.

If you're interested then consider this, I just created the experimental modlet Rational Resources Sandcastle which causes parts to, by default, require Minerals instead of Ore. I do this because I do not assume all parts that would be spawned are made of mainly metal, let alone rocket parts. Depending on what partmodules or category a part has, its recipe expands to ask for other resources and the ratios of these other resources increase.

This is overkill for any mod like the "Simplex" series but RR Sandcastle presents 3 resources that represent what would be the function stuff behind RocketParts, WBI Equipment or USI's Materialkits. They were proposed by @KspNoobUsernameTaken and are:

• Actuators - The analog moving parts and their lubrication where applicable: valves, pistons, turbopumps, brakes... Quick and cheap to print.
• Electronics - The electrical, optical or magnetic machinery within the part.
• Microprocessors - The bits that can produce a control signal and influence and respond to the electronics and actuators. Slow and costly to print.

I've done all this for EL before (using a whole bunch of CRP resources) and I managed to keep the config but I never released it. Feel free to try it and see: https://github.com/JadeOfMaar/sandbox/blob/master/ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads/Recipes2.cfg If you like, feel free to adapt it.

[theJesuit]

5 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

If you're interested then consider this, I just created the experimental modlet Rational Resources Sandcastle which causes parts to, by default, require Minerals instead of Ore. I do this because I do not assume all parts that would be spawned are made of mainly metal, let alone rocket parts. Depending on what partmodules or category a part has, its recipe expands to ask for other resources and the ratios of these other resources increase.

This is overkill for any mod like the "Simplex" series but RR Sandcastle presents 3 resources that represent what would be the function stuff behind RocketParts, WBI Equipment or USI's Materialkits. They were proposed by @KspNoobUsernameTaken and are:

• Actuators - The analog moving parts and their lubrication where applicable: valves, pistons, turbopumps, brakes... Quick and cheap to print.
• Electronics - The electrical, optical or magnetic machinery within the part.
• Microprocessors - The bits that can produce a control signal and influence and respond to the electronics and actuators. Slow and costly to print.

I've done all this for EL before (using a whole bunch of CRP resources) and I managed to keep the config but I never released it. Feel free to try it and see: https://github.com/JadeOfMaar/sandbox/blob/master/ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads/Recipes2.cfg If you like, feel free to adapt it.

Simplex Assembly does this for Sandcastle.  Between my MetalParts and CustomParts different percentages based on different types of part.  Simplex Assembly, or Simplex Resources (or both?) make most of the stock part modules require Custom Parts meaning a part with a high number of part modules needs more CustomParts than MetalParts.  (Read MKS RocketParts and SpecialistParts). 

I probably need to properly relook at Sandcastle too though as I am sure I set it all up while Sandcastle was in its infancy.

 

[infinite_monkey]

17 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Do you have GameData/000_RationalResources/CRPDefault/ ? The B9 definition is in there now. CKAN is not aware of it yet to players will currently end up installing RR without the B9 configs or resource placement configs.

000_RationalResources was missing entirely. I added it manually, now it's working. Except if Companion is also installed

[Grenartia]

On 9/22/2024 at 2:54 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

Release 3.0.0

• Created 000_RationalResources. Split resource templates out of RationalResources folder and took a new approach to play modes. Allows for modders to easily change what the temapltes contain and are applied to planets.
• Created extra, RationalResourcesSandcastle. Still experimental. Classic Stock not yet fully supported.
  • Removed placeholder config from RationalResourcesELUtilities.
• Updated RationalResources:
  • Added asteroid and comet resource configs.
  • Added asteroid and comet analysis module to RR Ground Scanner.
  • Fixed tank ratio for D+³He.
• Updated RationalResourcesCompanion:
  • Added Sterling Systems refinery tags to Omniconverter recipe configs.
  • Updated Mopedantte Splitter process. Added Thorium to outputs.
  • Updated processes that output Deuterium to dump Hydrogen when Deuterium is wanted more than Hydrogen.
• Updated RationalResourcesNuclearFamily:
  • Added System Heat compatibility.
  • Fixed errors with thermal nozzles patch. Methane mode targeted wrong mode of dual mode engines and there was a very large inconsistency with air-breathing mode. Thanks @Velcroish on GitHub
• Updated RationalResourcesParts:
  • Added missing Deuterium to gas tank options.
  • Removed deploy/retract step for exo scoops since they do not animate.
• Updated RationalResourcesSquad:
  • Disabled Structural subtype on request (hopefully). @Grenartia Tanks should now always hold the original fuel mix.

Awesome. Gonna try it out soon. Thanks for doing it!

[JadeOfMaar]

4 minutes ago, Grenartia said:

Awesome. Gonna try it out soon. Thanks for doing it!

Thank me if/when you confirm that I did it right.  I'm currently undoing the 000_RationalResources thing. It's turning out to be much more of a hassle than I anticipated.

[Grenartia]

16 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Thank me if/when you confirm that I did it right.  I'm currently undoing the 000_RationalResources thing. It's turning out to be much more of a hassle than I anticipated.

Yeah, I spent last week basically binge playing Satisfactory, and the week before that in a streamer's skeleton crew, so RN I'm just catching up on what I've missed here. I'll start up the game either later on tonight or tomorrow, and let you know.

[JadeOfMaar]

Release 3.0.2

Removed 000_RationalResources:

• Restored things as they were before.
• Introduced :FOR[RationalResourcesTemplateCustom]. Modders can use this to preclude all built-in templates so only their own will apply to planets.
• Introduced :FOR[RationalResourcesNoCRP]. Modders can use this to preclude just the CRP templates and the CRP functions in RationalResourcesCompanion. Classic Stock functions in RationalResourcesCompanion are now inactive without it.
• Introduced :FOR[RationalResourcesAU]. This will cause RationalResources to not attempt to apply resources to the stock planets. This is useful for system replacers, especially the re-skin kind like JNSQ or Techo's stock overhaul. (This was always around, though somewhat unused.)
• Introduced TemplateTag key in the resource placement configs. Modders may find it useful to be able to target these configs by their associated resource library.

Edited September 25 by JadeOfMaar
spll chcek

[Grenartia]

On 9/24/2024 at 6:13 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

Thank me if/when you confirm that I did it right.  I'm currently undoing the 000_RationalResources thing. It's turning out to be much more of a hassle than I anticipated.

Partially. In the game copy that I normally play on, it didn't seem to work at all (i.e., everything defaulted to structural, except the Airplane Plus parts). Tons of mods there, so if there's any interactions, I'd have a hard time isolating them. But I used my troubleshooting copy, installed only RR, RR Blacksmith, RR Companion, RR Parts, RR RCS, RR Squad, RR SSPXR Tanks, Restock and Restock+, SSPXR, SSPXR Internals, NF IVA, Janitor's Closet, and their dependencies. The LFO tanks all default to LFO, the xenon tanks default to xenon, the ore tanks default to ore, but the LF tanks default to LFO, as do the monoprop tanks. Even the surface-mounted capsule monoprop tanks. Also, the RR Cryo tanks and RR Gas Cache tanks default to structural. I'm unsure if that's intended behavior.