Is Squad working on a new game?

[AHHans]

My $0.05: I don't think that Squad is working on a new game. I believe that Squad is a very small company and that they use/need all their manpower for maintaining KSP.

Having said that: I would be glad if they would be making a new game!

6 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

BTW how do you view the idea of KSP-1 having it's development cycle ended in favor of a KSP-2?

I'n not really in favor of that. I see two alternatives for a "KSP-2": one would be more or less the same game, just "better". I don't see where KSP could be updated enough to make it worthwhile to have a KSP-2, while still being more or less the same KSP. In this case I would prefer if they would keep making incremental updates to the original KSP. The other alternative would be to make a different game. In that case I would miss having the original KSP being updated.

[MechBFP]

42 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

Success from my part then! BTW how do you view the idea of KSP-1 having it's development cycle ended in favor of a KSP-2?

I would be okay with it if the new version used a much better engine that handled all the physics properly, was much more optimized, and had lots of new features like wind, a proper aerodynamics model, a campaign/story mode, brand new planets with interstellar travel to at least a couple different solar systems, base building/resource management, much bigger tech tree, more in-depth science, etc.

Basically a game with a lot more focus on gameplay elements and without all the bugs/glitches due to an inadequate engine.

I am not a sandbox player, I like a game with goals and objectives and preset challenges to meet.

Imagine a game with the realistic physics of KSP, with the exploration of No Mans Sky, with the base building concept of Satisfactory. Now I realize this is an insanely huge/complex dream and will never happen. But man oh man would it be awesome.

[ZooNamedGames]

On 6/22/2019 at 6:57 AM, Daniel Prates said:

Yeah thats my point. Frequently a sequel will leave abandoned a half-finished game which had potential, and replace it for a game that does not really lives up to its predecessor. Companies do that to buff sales: "here my minions, feed on these new giblets!". But in super complex games like KSP that will obviously result in loss of quality. The KSP gaming community would make me very proud if we sent a clear message when the fateful time comes: we are not consumer wh%%@s, we want constant improvement to the base game instead of new shiny but useless eye-candy from time to time, in form of alluring new versions. KSP2 would only be good for that: it would look better, benefiting from new techs, but "retrograde" on all other regards.

KSP is worderful as it is, it only needs periodic overhauling to keep beeing interesting. If we go into a biannual DLC routine, that is fine! Being a long time player of Paradox games, which operates like that, I already am used to that cause it works well. 

So to me, squad and T2 deserve A LOT OF PRAISE for how they have been conducting themselfs, business-wise. Many kudos to them.

I'm sorry if my ramblings became besides the point. This thread had no clear point however... 

^^^ This. Everything said here.

Like Minecraft- KSP is a game that won't gain anything from a sequel. Everything done to a sequel, could be done to KSP1. KSP2 would only be a cash grab. That's it. Basically a super priced DLC (they won't be charging you $15 for KSP2, I'm certain of that). Not to mention KSP would be fighting to getting more attention in a niche where it's already the highlight of the niche style. Not to mention KSP2 would actively compete in the already undersized market with KSP1. As KSP1 has something KSP2 won't have for quite some time- and that being a fervent modding community. That's not to say KSP2 won't have one, but KSP1's is large, and well established.

[vossiewulf]

15 hours ago, MechBFP said:

I thought I made it pretty clear, the point is to speculate wildly. 

Seriously, how can we be modern humans without speculating wildly, and preferably pointlessly as well? In another 15 years or so, wild speculation and the maximum mongering of rumors will likely represent more than 50% of human output, according to all current indicators. It's time for these people to get with the program.

12 hours ago, MechBFP said:

I would be okay with it if the new version used a much better engine that handled all the physics properly, was much more optimized, and had lots of new features like wind, a proper aerodynamics model, a campaign/story mode, brand new planets with interstellar travel to at least a couple different solar systems, base building/resource management, much bigger tech tree, more in-depth science, etc.

Hmm, should be able to knock that out in six weeks or so. Where are the scrum masters? Time to start scoping the sprints!

Actually, I think the Kerbal Space Program Orgasmatron would be to build KSP 2 using the Space Engine universe simulator, which has accurate representations of all known bodies in the observable universe plus the gas clouds and the interstellar medium and even dark matter, or at least the currently available working theory. 

I want a 17 star contract to build a space station around a quasar.

[mattinoz]

Wasn't one of the Squad purchases / Key staff moving on type events to "develop the Kerbal IP into other assets"?

I mean who wouldn't want all sorts of Kerbal fun and mayhem?

 

1 hour ago, ZooNamedGames said:

^^^ This. Everything said here.

Like Minecraft- KSP is a game that won't gain anything from a sequel. Everything done to a sequel, could be done to KSP1. KSP2 would only be a cash grab. That's it. Basically a super priced DLC (they won't be charging you $15 for KSP2, I'm certain of that). Not to mention KSP would be fighting to getting more attention in a niche where it's already the highlight of the niche style. Not to mention KSP2 would actively compete in the already undersized market with KSP1. As KSP1 has something KSP2 won't have for quite some time- and that being a fervent modding community. That's not to say KSP2 won't have one, but KSP1's is large, and well established.

Prequals (unlike Star Wars) would on the other hand be amazing and could be completely different beasts.

Build you own -> race car in Kerbal Kart. Planes in The Wright Kruft. Roller coasters in Karp K-tect*

*Clearly I'm not applying for a Marketing Job.

 

[KerbolExplorer]

On 6/9/2019 at 11:44 AM, kerbiloid said:

  Reveal hidden contents

They will start a new game after having finally debugged KSP-1.

 

If that's true then....

 

We should get KSP 2 by 2100

[StarStreak2109]

They are most definitely not working on KSP2. At least that is my impression. As long as there is a decent cashflow to be gained from KSP 1 in conjunction with the two DLCs plus whatever DLCs they can come up with in the short to mid-term future, it makes absolutely no sense in pouring money and human resources into creating a new game from scratch. Not that it is unheard of to come up with a sequel for a small-ish indie studio.

I also doubt that they could come up with a business case for such a niche game, which would satisfy Take 2 (or any other business minded investor). KSP is fine as an indie game and I am sure that all involved in its initial creation more than broke even, but I highly doubt that it will be sustainable in a AAA class arena. Unless of course they make it more "mainstreamy" (is that even a word?!?) by dumbing it down...

[swjr-swis]

Based on the semi-official statement that Squad has "focused on full-time game development since the release of KSP", it would make business sense to already be working on a new project. T2 might still throw Squad some regular work on further KSP developments, it might even have been part of the deal, but it seems a risk to gamble a company's future on just one product. It makes sense to have more projects in the pipeline to secure a revenue stream and I wouldn't fault them for that.

So, I expect they have something more up their sleeve, and we'll hear about it in time. I just don't expect them to be very forthcoming with details until it's practically ready for release, given the tighter reigns/NDA they're operating under now.

My only hope is that they find the latitude to at least 'finish' KSP - still waiting for that definitive polished version mostly free of bugs and annoyances. Hey, I can dream.

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, KerbolExplorer said:

We should get KSP 2 by 2100

Probably sooner. Right once the first Martian base gets built.

KSP 2: Duna Edition.

With a DLC Making History 2 about historical SpaceX ships.

Edited June 25, 2019 by kerbiloid

[MechBFP]

4 hours ago, StarStreak2109 said:

but I highly doubt that it will be sustainable in a AAA class arena.

Keep in mind that Private Division isn’t for AAA games. It specifically exists because Take 2 had a gap in managing smaller projects. 

[StarStreak2109]

3 hours ago, swjr-swis said:

Based on the semi-official statement that Squad has "focused on full-time game development since the release of KSP", it would make business sense to already be working on a new project. T2 might still throw Squad some regular work on further KSP developments, it might even have been part of the deal, but it seems a risk to gamble a company's future on just one product. It makes sense to have more projects in the pipeline to secure a revenue stream and I wouldn't fault them for that.

So, I expect they have something more up their sleeve, and we'll hear about it in time. I just don't expect them to be very forthcoming with details until it's practically ready for release, given the tighter reigns/NDA they're operating under now.

My only hope is that they find the latitude to at least 'finish' KSP - still waiting for that definitive polished version mostly free of bugs and annoyances. Hey, I can dream.

We do not have any insight into the balance sheets nor any business reports of Squad, so anything we can do is to speculate. Regarding further QA passes within KSP, I do hope that things inherently broken like the wheels and some other issues get fixed, before KSP is being dropped like a cold fish in favor of a new product. This is IMHO very preferable, because I fear that if there'll ever be a KSP 2 (or a spiritual successor), it will be very different. Now this can be a good thing or a bad thing.

In terms of good things, it would be that a KSP 2 would hopefully be made out of one cast and not by welding together the work of half a dozen different dev teams and afterwards bolting on a number of extra components that may or may not work nicely with the core. In terms of bad things, my fear would be that they'd be trying to make the game more appealing to the broad masses, i.e. dumbing it down. Furthermore, I would fear that the very open nature of KSP 1, that enables "easy" modding, would be closed down significantly to increase the size of the playing field for Squad / T2, i.e. to provide paid expansions.

37 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Keep in mind that Private Division isn’t for AAA games. It specifically exists because Take 2 had a gap in managing smaller projects. 

Still it is somethings different from one Felipe Galanghe (spelling), who starts a project such as this in his free time... Point taken though.

[Serenity]

I really want at some point a new KSP game but my logic inside me tells me thats probably not gonna happen.

Big companies take the best from each indie studio and merge them in bigger games/plans.

Also when an indie game got a sequel?I cant really recall many, such a rare thing to see.

One example for indies unable to make a sequel is Subnautica.They eventually took the road to DLC but well in stand alone form maybe unable to require the cash needed for a new game?

Edited June 26, 2019 by Boyster

[StarStreak2109]

1 hour ago, Boyster said:

Also when an indie game got a sequel?I cant really recall many, such a rare thing to see.

https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FUrban_Games

http://www.transportfever.com/about/urban-games/

It has happened. Here is one example: Urban Games is a small outfit from Switzerland, who did their first two games (Train Fever and Transport Fever) on their own. Only for the newest game, they went with a bigger publisher.

Edited June 26, 2019 by StarStreak2109

[nwillard]

My $.30 are, I bet a lot of the developers in Squad have a lot of IDEAS, ideas out the whizbang about things they would do completely differently in KSP if they could start from scratch. I'm sure plenty of them have been thinking for a while "If we WERE to make a sequel, THIS is how we'd handle this flight model, THIS is how we'd handle aerodynamics this time around, THIS is how we'd build a parts system that is easier on performance and functionality", etc.

At a certain point you gather up enough of those ideas, throw together a design doc, make a list of things you'd be able to greatly expand on to otherwise make a sequel worth it (more in-depth campaign mode, some kind of storyline probably centered around progressively discovering alien tech, fookin' life support options). I'm almost certain they've done or are doing all of this conceptual work already.

Then that design doc gets pitched to some executives, and either people start working on it, or it's thrown on a shelf for a year or two while other stuff is being worked on. This is the part we don't know.

[Serenity]

Hmm there is also waiting for Unity to improve a bit.No point in getting in the same problems all over again.

[StarStreak2109]

Where is it written, that one needs to use Unity for a space game?

[Serenity]

Isnt Unity supposed to be the most effective/simple/fast way to create these type of games?

Whenever someone asks why its not using a different engine this is usually the answer they get...am i wrong?

I dont know, i am not a programmer, just what i hear from developers when this question is thrown around.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Boyster

[MechBFP]

On 6/24/2019 at 10:33 AM, MechBFP said:

I would be okay with it if the new version used a much better engine that handled all the physics properly, was much more optimized, and had lots of new features like wind, a proper aerodynamics model, a campaign/story mode, brand new planets with interstellar travel to at least a couple different solar systems, base building/resource management, much bigger tech tree, more in-depth science, etc.

*dabs* 

[SirGouki]

On 6/26/2019 at 3:46 PM, Boyster said:

Isnt Unity supposed to be the most effective/simple/fast way to create these type of games?

Whenever someone asks why its not using a different engine this is usually the answer they get...am i wrong?

I dont know, i am not a programmer, just what i hear from developers when this question is thrown around.

I am a hobbyist game developer.  I used to use Unity and quit because of the change of licensing.  I now use Game Maker: Studio 1.4.x for prototyping, and am using the SFML Library to better learn C++ so I can start the real development.  Unity is no where near the end all be all for anything.  There's Unreal Engine which is more free than Unity is now, Godot which is like the old Unity and GM:S had a kid and is released under a license that makes it literally free to make games with, and others. 

Using Unity is pretty much like combining a very basic 3d Modeling software with GM: S.  It gives you just enough, but there are underlying bugs you can't fix because they are part of the environment.  Unlike other engines, like Unreal, you can't get the source code to Unity to fix problems.  One of the most major issues with Kerbal space program is the way Unity handles memory and garbage collection.  Another of the most major issues is that Unity is not optimized to handle a ton of models at once, which is one part of why you get problems when you have over so many parts - every part is a separate model (another part is that physics are being calculated on all the parts attached to a ship every time, instead of only parts that could actually be effected - at least it seems that way).  This specific problem can be worked around with various tricks, such as only calculating physics on the ship as a whole or in larger parts (i.e. lift calculations take into account wing surface vs not wing surface instead of each individual part) but there are limits to what you can account for and how.  Also, in physics calculations required for something like KSP, its not as simple as it would be for something like Mario, where you're only checking to see if the player collides with certain objects and changing things based on that.  Because of that, certain calculations would have to be applied more than others.

This post is in no way indicative of how KSP is actually designed, just my thought process when I see certain things (other than mentioning the well documented problems with Unity), I do not have the source code to KSP, although I would love to take a look at it.  I also do not think I know more than Squad about programming or game development, they've come a heck of a lot further than I ever have.  I am merely trying to draw attention to some of the statements regarding Unity.

As an aside, now that KSP 2 has been announced, I REALLY hope they got away from Unity with it and used something closer to making their own engine/toolchain for it.

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, SirGouki said:

As an aside, now that KSP 2 has been announced, I REALLY hope they got away from Unity with it and used something closer to making their own engine/toolchain for it.

It’s already been documented in the FAQ that they are indeed using Unity for the engine. Who knows though, maybe they actually did get the source code for Unity or Take Two had some pull to get Unity to fix some under lying issues specifically for them. 

EDIT: Yes they probably did get a source code license.

https://blogs.unity3d.com/2009/03/20/why-you-probably-dont-need-a-source-code-license/

Edited August 20, 2019 by MechBFP

[Serenity]

3 hours ago, SirGouki said:

I am a hobbyist game developer.  I used to use Unity and quit because of the change of licensing.  I now use Game Maker: Studio 1.4.x for prototyping, and am using the SFML Library to better learn C++ so I can start the real development.  Unity is no where near the end all be all for anything.  There's Unreal Engine which is more free than Unity is now, Godot which is like the old Unity and GM:S had a kid and is released under a license that makes it literally free to make games with, and others. 

You make some very good points.Shame they didnt pick Unreal but, again only from what i heard,

using Unreal for these type of games requires HEAVY changes and getting deep into difficult areas of programming.

That means more hours, more staff, more complications, more almost everything.

Maybe i am wrong but i feel like Unreal its like a super wild beast that if you manage to tame it becomes vastly superior than almost any other engine.

But how many resources are they willing to spend?And yeah its confirmed Unity as the post above me said.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Boyster

[nestor]

On 6/7/2019 at 6:24 PM, Gargamel said:

Which would be 100% true, as the core (or at least it was at one point) of their business is Multimedia and Marketing.

Please stop saying that. Squad's main focus has been KSP since early 2014, even before I joined. 

On 6/24/2019 at 11:06 AM, AHHans said:

Having said that: I would be glad if they would be making a new game!

NDA in bold but just curious to hear what type of game you would imagine us doing next if that was the case. 

[Ultimate Steve]

36 minutes ago, nestor said:

Please stop saying that. Squad's main focus has been KSP since early 2014, even before I joined. 

Okay, thank you for clarifying that, I don't think I've heard that officially before.

I realize you weren't there in the marketing days, but I am curious, can you tell us anything about the marketing days? If it's NDA that's fine, I get it.

[nestor]

1 minute ago, Ultimate Steve said:

I realize you weren't there in the marketing days, but I am curious, can you tell us anything about the marketing days? If it's NDA that's fine, I get it.

They were doing great but they liked KSP better, that's as much as I know from those times. 

[Ultimate Steve]

Just now, nestor said:

They were doing great but they liked KSP better, that's as much as I know from those times. 

Ok, thank you!