totm apr 2024 [1.12.x] Shuttle Orbiter Construction Kit | Stockalike Space Shuttle Orbiter! | (Tubes!) | v1.1.8

[GoldForest]

17 minutes ago, benjee10 said:

Hmm looking at it the diameter varies between modules. Destiny is listed as 4.2m but some of the others are 4.4m and others 4.57m as you say. Either way I don’t intend to rescale any of the HabTech modules at this stage, and representing their actual scales would result in them not fitting together properly.

I think the discrepancy is due to all the bits and bobs that are attached to the sides of the different modules. The Canadaarm attachments on Unity for instance. Or the wiring and coverings for said wiring. 

Oh, sorry, wasn't suggesting you remake Habtech 2, no. I was talking more for Habtech 3 (For KSP 2) if you were to make it. But seeing as the modules are 4.2 base size, which translate to 2.5m in game, no need to rescale them. 

[DaveyJ576]

I have been running KSP for 3 years so I am reasonably proficient. I have been running BDB on a 2.5x KSRSS setup mostly. Recently I decided to get into the brave new world of shuttle operations. It has been fun for the past week and I thought I would offer my thoughts on SOCK and ReDirect as a newbie, in no particular order.

1. Orbiter construction was a breeze and was well thought out. The only thing that puzzled me was the placement of the KU-band antenna. Once I figured out that it needs to be on a longeron attachment point I got it. One observation: this antenna was switched over to a rendezvous radar when approaching a station. The dish was rotated upward in relation to the payload bay for this. Could this be a future upgrade?

2. The incredible detail that is available on the orbiter (Recolored and Repainted are a must!) is stunning. One suggested upgrade: could we get the original rudder configuration that did not have the drag chute bay? The first four orbiters were built without the drag chute, they had it retrofitted after the Challenger accident. Only Endeavour was built with it. What is a suggestion for a good chute to use?

3. I thought that it was a bit unusual that the ReDirect SRBs lacked a forward attachment point. I then took the recommended step of switching over to the Photon boosters and that was resolved nicely. For the ET decoupler is it possible to have crossfeed on as a default? I puzzled as to why the SSMEs were not firing for quite a while until it dawned on me. I also can't think of a reason why the bipod would be off. I think it should be always on.

4. I found it easier to build the orbiter as a separate assembly, with the ET decoupler attached to it. I would then build out the ET/booster stack and attach the orbiter/decoupler assembly. If I built the ET/booster stack with the decoupler, I found that attaching the orbiter was difficult as it had a tendency to attach to the ET node and not the decoupler node.

5. The whole stack flies well uphill with MechJeb PVG. The roll to heads down could be a little smoother, but after that it is rock solid. Trying for a periapsis lower than 200 km will result in some weird pitch down movements, and I found that a 225x125 orbit works great for the initial ascent. The roll to heads up was easy. With MJ still engaged you simply change the force roll number from 180 to 0 and click outside the MJ box. The orbiter rolls smoothly back to heads up this way. I got to my initial orbit with a little gas left in the ET and without an OMS burn. I circularized at periapsis and commenced orbital ops. 

6. Two stock sepratrons at the base of each SRB is a must. Without them the Photon booster nosecones are over-powered and they will cause collisions with the ET or the orbiter at separation. I tried the BDB S-IVB ullage motors, but they are overpowered and have to have the thrust cut way back. The stock sepratrons work well and even look a little like the real thing.

7. Coming downhill the orbiter flies beautifully. MechJeb SmartASS is a must for reentry. Using the SVEL+ function I could keep a steady 30 degree upward pitch with no unwanted rolling or yawing. I would adjust the angle as needed to get to my target. After reentry, Atmosphere Autopilot enabled a smooth and easily controllable WASD flight to touchdown. I have stuck 4 out of 4 landings, although only one was on the runway! More practice is needed there. DO NOT take extremely steep down angles (greater than 30-35 degrees) if you miss your landing mark. This will result in nasty flat spins and uncontrolled flight. It is better to go past and turn around or pick an alternate runway. 

8. I haven't tried docking yet. I have to get the basics down first. There is a very detailed description of how to dock several pages back. I copied and pasted it into a Word file for my own use. It should help a lot.

All in all this is an outstanding effort @benjee10! Thank you for all the hard work. It is appreciated!

[benjee10]

28 minutes ago, DaveyJ576 said:

I have been running KSP for 3 years so I am reasonably proficient. I have been running BDB on a 2.5x KSRSS setup mostly. Recently I decided to get into the brave new world of shuttle operations. It has been fun for the past week and I thought I would offer my thoughts on SOCK and ReDirect as a newbie, in no particular order.

Thank you for your detailed feedback and glad you are enjoying it! 

I'm not planning any updates for reDIRECT at this point, as I know there is another 3rd party mod in the works that should replace the ET. Keep an eye out for that, I will post about it here. You can grab an aft skirt separation thruster designed to fit the Photon Corp boosters from Artemis Construction Kit. 

Likewise, there won't be any major changes to the orbiter as KSP2 is out so soon and I'll be focusing my efforts on a new orbiter model for that. This should address lots of the issues with this one, and add a lot more flexibility in terms of replicating different variants and unflown concepts. Also will be major graphical improvement with the implementation of PBR materials coming in KSP2. I'm planning a final update for SOCK which will improve a couple of things, add Invader's spacehab officially, and hopefully leave it in quite a complete state.

This does mean unfortunately that Buran will not be happening for KSP1. It's just too much work to get completed in time and then have to immediately redo for KSP2! But I think it will be worth the wait. 

[Kurld]

Is there no SSME?  Should I use the KS-25 Vector?  The engine from  reDirect seems to be scaled too large, as do any of the ones from RMM (smaller but still don't fit).

[Davi SDF]

3 minutes ago, Kurld said:

Is there no SSME?  Should I use the KS-25 Vector?  The engine from  reDirect seems to be scaled too large, as do any of the ones from RMM (smaller but still don't fit).

you just need to move the RMM engines a little with the move tool, they will fit nicely and will look more accurate to the real life space shuttle (the Vector is too small i think)

[Kurld]

Also, I seem to be challenged when it comes to attaching the SRBs from Photon Corp.

edit: I eventually figured out how to put the SRB onto the decoupler, but then I can't see how to attach the nose-cone.  Should I just use one of the stock radial decouplers?

Sorry if I'm being obtuse.  I'm kind of in mod-overload at the moment.

edit (again)  I found the hidden node inside the SRB, finally.  

Edited January 22, 2023 by Kurld

[AZZlyTheAZZome]

18 hours ago, benjee10 said:

This does mean unfortunately that Buran will not be happening for KSP1. It's just too much work to get completed in time and then have to immediately redo for KSP2! But I think it will be worth the wait. 

Could we please get the unfinished Buran parts for our kitbashes?

[Richmountain112]

It is also pretty useful for Nuclear shuttles that use exclusively Liquid Fuel and you don't want the main engines consuming any of it. I sent one to Pol and back. Did an inefficient return to Kerbin by using a Duna assist and directly going to Kerbin from there when I could've gone straight to Kerbin when I had the Delta-V to slow down for aerobraking.

[DaveyJ576]

Hello! I have two questions:

1. Does anyone know of a good Edwards AFB mod that will fit KSRSS?

2. If I want the KerboArm to operate via Breaking Ground as opposed to IR, do I just delete the IR_next.cfg patch from the hTRobotics folder? Infernal Robotics is a bit wonky for me and I would like to try the arm with just the Breaking Ground functionality if that is possible.

Thanks!

[Kurld]

I'd assume if you want to leave that mod installed you'd need to remove that patch, as you describe.

The BG controller has been pretty much the only way (for me, anyway) to get anything done without going completely insane.  Even so, figuring out what angles to use and setting it up to control the animations is really slow and tedious.

I saw where somebody was working a while ago on an inverse kinematics plugin for the IR mod.  If any such thing existed for Breaking Ground it might make life a lot easier.

[MashAndBangers]

Screenshot tax:

At least I landed in Florida and not Cuba this time!

[GoldForest]

5 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

Screenshot tax:

At least I landed in Florida and not Cuba this time!

Too bad there isn't a cities mod for KSP. It would be funny to see the shuttle parked in the middle of an intersection or on the interstate. 

[BlackDinoShadows]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:34 PM, DaveyJ576 said:

1. Does anyone know of a good Edwards AFB mod that will fit KSRSS?

Try STS Locations from SpaceODY , i don't know if it fit with ksrss x2.5 but it still a very good mod

here's the link for STS Locations : https://github.com/SpaceODY/STS-Locations

[DaveyJ576]

1 hour ago, BlackDinoShadows said:

Try STS Locations from SpaceODY , i don't know if it fit with ksrss x2.5 but it still a very good mod

here's the link for STS Locations : https://github.com/SpaceODY/STS-Locations

Thanks. I already found that one, but it appears that it works only with RSS. There are no configs for the smaller KSRSS. 

[Kurld]

I was watching some footage of shuttle landings and realized/remembered that there is supposed to be a parachute on these things somewhere.

What do folks use for this?  I don't see any part included nor any attach points to place one.

Also, Jeb probably ought to get his brakes checked.  These don't seem to work very well.  Maybe not at all?

[benjee10]

11 minutes ago, Kurld said:

I was watching some footage of shuttle landings and realized/remembered that there is supposed to be a parachute on these things somewhere.

What do folks use for this?  I don't see any part included nor any attach points to place one.

Also, Jeb probably ought to get his brakes checked.  These don't seem to work very well.  Maybe not at all?

There's no dedicated part for the drag chute, but you can use the stock radial drogue. It attaches in the dip at the base of the vertical stabiliser. 

The brakes should work unless you have a mod conflict or something like that. You can adjust the brake strength in the right click menu to tweak to your liking. 

[chaos113]

1 hour ago, benjee10 said:

There's no dedicated part for the drag chute, but you can use the stock radial drogue. It attaches in the dip at the base of the vertical stabiliser. 

The brakes should work unless you have a mod conflict or something like that. You can adjust the brake strength in the right click menu to tweak to your liking. 

The pathfinder: s.p.o.c.k. has a shuttle drag chute for pathfinder and shuttle 

[Kurld]

I'll check them again when I fly later this evening.  I set up the wheels as per the totally awesome manual.  I wish more mods did stuff like that!

One thing I'm wondering is if adding the rudder air-braking somehow is blocking any other parts from getting a brake command.  I added the wheels to the BRAKE action and will test that too.

Not sure what might be in conflict, but that's totally possible as my install is rather bloated and I just keep making it worse.  I noticed during my last session that the base rotator servo on the Kerboarm had stopped responding in the VAB, either in response to the KAL-1000 instructions or to manual manipulation.  All the other robot bits are working just fine.  I took that part off and put a new one back on and it still didn't work.  I mean, even the other axial servos are working.  Just not THAT one.  I didn't have time to try and get it on the launchpad to see what was up there.  THIS GAME sometimes...
 

5 hours ago, benjee10 said:

The brakes should work unless you have a mod conflict or something like that. You can adjust the brake strength in the right click menu to tweak to your liking. 

 

update: OK, so having the wheel parts in the brakes action seemed to make them work.  Weird.  One strange thing is that when the vehicle quit rolling, it started rotating around slowly on the runway in a counter-clockwise direction.

Restarting the game also made the robot part come back to life.  Then later I was "in the simulator" (i.e.  take the craft to extremely high orbit of the sun with cheats and try to run down all the mission steps, make sure action groups are set properly, etc.) and deploying the Destiny Module to the front of Node-1 mockup when whole damn arm died right after putting Destiny in place.   This is the first time I've ever used the BG parts and.. it sure is a mess.  As much as I like to try and stick to how they did stuff in the real missions.. I might go back to deploying everything with mini tugs in order to save my sanity.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Kurld

[MashAndBangers]

Adventures of the Dream!

Parts from ColdWarAerospace with Procedural Wings.  Warranty void upon wing separation.

[Kurld]

Next kinda dumb question:   Is there some way to use this with the Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod?

I set up the RCS as instructed in the manual.  This works great when "control from here" is the cockpit.  But as the manual points out, trying to control the craft during docking from the actual docking port is an exercise in futility.  The only translation that seems to happen is port/starboard.

Is there some way in the game to set up an alternative RCS scheme without having to go to each port manually and swap them around every time?

 

[benjee10]

5 hours ago, Kurld said:

Next kinda dumb question:   Is there some way to use this with the Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod?

I set up the RCS as instructed in the manual.  This works great when "control from here" is the cockpit.  But as the manual points out, trying to control the craft during docking from the actual docking port is an exercise in futility.  The only translation that seems to happen is port/starboard.

Is there some way in the game to set up an alternative RCS scheme without having to go to each port manually and swap them around every time?

 

Funny you should say that, I just pushed an update to the GitHub master branch last night that refactors the RCS to use a single module & dummy FX transforms, which will eliminate the need for fiddly setup and allow the res to work correctly no matter the control point. Tested with MechJeb docking auto and it seems to work. 

Also updated the handrails on all parts that have them to match the newer HabTech models (and provide a funky blue part switch)

All still in development, but there should be an official release soon. Will also be repositioning the nodes to accommodate the updated RMM SSMEs. 

[BlackDinoShadows]

8 minutes ago, benjee10 said:

Funny you should say that, I just pushed an update to the GitHub master branch last night that refactors the RCS to use a single module & dummy FX transforms, which will eliminate the need for fiddly setup and allow the res to work correctly no matter the control point. Tested with MechJeb docking auto and it seems to work. 

Also updated the handrails on all parts that have them to match the newer HabTech models (and provide a funky blue part switch)

All still in development, but there should be an official release soon. Will also be repositioning the nodes to accommodate the updated RMM SSMEs. 

Want to see the new update soon

And i'm exited for the buran with the folder Buran_WIP

[Kurld]

2 hours ago, benjee10 said:

Funny you should say that, I just pushed an update to the GitHub master branch last night that refactors the RCS to use a single module & dummy FX transforms, which will eliminate the need for fiddly setup and allow the res to work correctly no matter the control point.

As I drifted off to sleep last night I was thinking about how I could do just that.  I wound up assuming maybe this would require reworking the transforms that are set up in Unity and not just something you can do in the part module configs.

I guess while we are talking docking... is there some  real-world document somewhere that describes a particular way that the APAS ports should be installed?  I'm imagining something that says "all the ports on the station that face nadir should be rotated this way" or "all the ports on the station that face prograde should be rotated that way."

I've made up some rules for myself that seem to work, because I had an issue come up when I was docking Node 1 to the FGB where I didn't have them lined up properly and of course the relative angles matter for the APAS.  But is it proscribed anywhere?

To confuse me even further, the CBM rings have little tabs that stick out, but these don't seem to interfere with anything.
 

[MashAndBangers]

Dreaming about Blizzards:

 

[Kurld]

Current status: