Robotics - Every build results in kraken / sub-optimal performance of craft.

[osta]

Robotics - Every build results in kraken / sub-optimal performance of craft.

I often thought about trying out infernal robotics but due to it's glitchy nature and the eternal battle with mod updates I've stuck with mostly stock for years. When Robotics were announced to be coming to the stock game I like many other players got excited for the possbilities that came along with these new mechanics/parts. 

First I build a new station, with a collapsing solar array, you know that thing you've wanted to do ever since seeing a small solar panel unfold? Did that, 1 in 3 times it unfolds successfully, rest of the time it summon's the kraken and destroys itself or the craft or both. The station itself suffers from the same thing from all it's fancy foldable parts, apparently all made from jello.

Next I thought about making an VTOL SSTO, thing hardly manages to get off the ground due to the engines causing so much torque on the hinge/robotics parts that any control / ability of to get it in the air is purely luck based rather than any level of skill (as much as Jeb would argue otherwise).

I've tried different sizes, lower torque's, different parts and it just comes down to parts that don't seem to actually function in the same realm of physics as the rest of the game, summoned from the kraken realm?

I love this game, I have 1200 (recorded) hours on steam, I've completed this game backwards and forwards, visited every planet with every concievable type of craft and enjoyed every minute of it. This sadly could be the straw that broke the camels back. Why introduce parts with such massive ramifications if using them in all but cosmetic/small use ways breaks your craft/mission?

This rings back to the days when you couldn't make the crafts/stations you wanted cause you'd hit the lag/part limit, the feeling of frustration that even if you had a super computer your never gonna see your "Dream" craft become reality due to lag. It's the same with these robotic parts, you might get 1 or 2 uses for novilties sake but you'd be insane to actually rely on this parts as a part of a mission/craft, the risk of everything going stupidly wrong is too high.

Given I paid money for DLC that spoiled the game for me i have a somewhat sour taste in my mouth, I paid money and didn't get the many new hours of joy i wanted, instead i got disappointment and realisation that the best is over and seemingly this goes as "ready for market" by the Kerbal devs.

 

Sad panda.

I'll keep a close eye on reddit/forums and I've no doubt i'll pick around with the game now and then but you've burst my kerbal bubble dev's.... and I couldn't just walk away without letting you know.

 

I guess the question would be, is there any intention to address these "wobble" / "Jello" issues?

Edited July 8, 2019 by osta

[Geschosskopf]

On 7/8/2019 at 3:31 AM, osta said:

Robotics - Every build results in kraken / sub-optimal performance of craft.

Welcome to the forum, Osta!  Sorry you're having problems.

All I can say is to look at the many examples folks have been making successfully.  There are ways to make the robotics work quite well.  You just have to learn their limitations.  There are many discussions about that in the BG Discussion section.  Here's a good place to start....

 

[Guest]

I’ve made tilt-rotors and rotating engine SSTOs and other craft without much trouble, as well as various collapsing/unfolding structures. I’ve got a bunch of them on and around Duna in a career game as a matter of fact and they work great. The robotic parts seem quite robust enough.

It’s not 100% problem free of course and robotic parts are more likely to summon the Kraken but I have not found it too hard to keep Him at bay.

Are you using mods like KJR? How are you using autostrut? Specifics would help. I do assure you that it’s possible and not too hard to make all kinds of contraptions, from helicopters, VTOLs, lifts, and cranes to genuinely wacky stuff like robo-frogs and centipede planes (ht: @Klapaucius)

Edited July 10, 2019 by Guest

[Klapaucius]

I think it takes a while to get your head around how it all works. The new DLC does have a learning curve, not doubt about it.  Several of us have marked out little corners of the DLC to concentrate on, and we have had good success. As @Brikoleur mentioned, he has become quite the helicopter expert.  I've spent a bunch of time pushing the KAL 1000 controller to its limits, and using it as an alternate control mechanism.  Others, such as @SuperHappySquid and @jmark1213have pushed the capability of mechs.  @sgt_flyer has delved into tracked vehicles. @ManEatingApe has invented the new sport of Kerbal Flinging with his catapult challenge.

 

It is an amazing DLC, but there is a lot to it.  It probably adds a not-insignificant amount of complexity to an already complex game--if the DLC has one downside, it is that new KSP players may buy it before coming to grips with the basic game. Therein, methinks, lies madness...

 

2 things I would suggest:

 

1. If you have craft files you can share, please do. We may be able to lend some advice. As with a lot of Kerbal, it is possible your issues are actually quite minor, but just hard to pinpoint.

2. Take a break.  When anything I do: Kerbal, Trumpet, Adobe Illustrator, kayaking, whatever... gets too frustrating, I just walk away for awhile.  There is a certain point where you just cannot make any more progress, so best to give it some distance.

As an example, I recently played a game called "The Swapper." It is an absolutely brilliant game, but I made the mistake a few times of continuing to hammer away at a puzzle I just could not get. Fool that I was, I did not take into account that it was past midnight, and my brain was not firing on all cylinders. The same puzzle that had me stumped and swearing, after a good rest and some decent food was fairly obvious.

Or with my trumpet. The bible of trumpeters is the Arban book. There are exercises in there that seem easy when you first look at them, but turn out to be insanely hard to do well (actually, that sums up just about everything in the Arban book). You practice what you can until diminishing returns or outright regression sets in. Then you put the horn down, do something else and go back later when you are fresh.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Klapaucius

[osta]

I'm running Mechjeb/Tweakscale & Hyperedit. 

I figured something like auto-strut may help fix some issues but as I said I try to keep any mods to a minimum to lower the chance of krakken/additional slowdown.  I'd like to think the parts should be usable without any 3rd party input.

I can accept that perhaps my reaction is due to a lack of sufficient testing but after 20+ hours building/testing/crying even my hardened kerbal commander nerves where getting frayed.

I'll try some additional tests, there's a few methods I didn't try as they'd result in having to build the craft around the robot rather than the other way around but everything starts somewhere, if I can get something that works I can go from there. I'll take a look at existing designs/crafts.

 

I do hope I'm wrong and it's just a lack of experience but if you'll dare meet me 1/2 way.... no other parts before have had these kind of effects/wierd problems. Perhaps people are more accepting if they've used infernal robotics/other mods before but as someone who's always pretty much played stock/minimul this is a little frustrating/a let down.

Thanks for your input all - if I can narrow down my exact issues a little more/find a solution I'll try and come back and expand. I agree with the sentinment that we're living in the age of communial change, if things genuinely need change it just takes a few voices to start that movement.

[Klapaucius]

11 minutes ago, osta said:

I'm running Mechjeb/Tweakscale & Hyperedit. 

I figured something like auto-strut may help fix some issues but as I said I try to keep any mods to a minimum to lower the chance of krakken/additional slowdown.  I'd like to think the parts should be usable without any 3rd party input.

I can accept that perhaps my reaction is due to a lack of sufficient testing but after 20+ hours building/testing/crying even my hardened kerbal commander nerves where getting frayed.

I'll try some additional tests, there's a few methods I didn't try as they'd result in having to build the craft around the robot rather than the other way around but everything starts somewhere, if I can get something that works I can go from there. I'll take a look at existing designs/crafts.

 

I do hope I'm wrong and it's just a lack of experience but if you'll dare meet me 1/2 way.... no other parts before have had these kind of effects/wierd problems. Perhaps people are more accepting if they've used infernal robotics/other mods before but as someone who's always pretty much played stock/minimul this is a little frustrating/a let down.

Thanks for your input all - if I can narrow down my exact issues a little more/find a solution I'll try and come back and expand. I agree with the sentinment that we're living in the age of communial change, if things genuinely need change it just takes a few voices to start that movement.

I did uninstall all of my mods with the DLC because I was having major issues.  The only mods I am currently using are the KerbalX craft mod, Kerbal Engineer and camera tools.  I think enough has changed in the underlying mechanics that the modders will need to do some re-configuring. (I'm not a modder, so I am speaking only on what I have observed.   Others may want to chip in with more technically informed opinions).  I reckon Tweakscale may be causing you some grief. 

 

I would try running a vanilla install and see how you get on. While I have found a few bugs here and there, I have not had the Kraken descend on me since going mostly mod-less.  I am sure in time this will be sorted, but for the meantime, that is my take on it.

 

Since there is no DRM, you can run a clean copy while keeping your current KSP install. Just copy it and then clean out your gamedata folder (except for the Squad stuff).

Edited July 10, 2019 by Klapaucius

[Guest]

FWIW I’ve played almost 100% stock. The only parts-related mod I’ve used to any significant extent is KIS/KAS. 

My issues with BG have been mostly QoL related and a lot of those are being/have been addressed in patches. Structural issues have been manageable although they do exist. (Example: 8-blade rotor with small servos for collective will summon the Kraken.)

I’m not doubting your experience, you’re clearly frustrated and stuff isn’t working like you expect. However I do assure you that the parts are far from unusable.

We could try to help troubleshoot with specifics. Alternatively all I can suggest is what I did - start small and simple and in sandbox mode, to figure out what each of the parts can do and what its limitations are, and work your way up from that. Trying to build something very big or very complex as your first project is unlikely to go well. You gotta make suborbital before you can land on the Mun, in a manner of speaking.

[Serenity]

4 hours ago, osta said:

I'm running Mechjeb/Tweakscale & Hyperedit. 

I figured something like auto-strut may help fix some issues but as I said I try to keep any mods to a minimum to lower the chance of krakken/additional slowdown.  I'd like to think the parts should be usable without any 3rd party input.

I probably got the wrong idea and you meant something else but just in case...autostrut is a stock, stable feature.You turn it from options->advanced tweakables and helps a lot.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Boyster

[Superfluous J]

5 hours ago, osta said:

I figured something like auto-strut may help fix some issues

 

Sadly autostruts and robotics don't mix well.

 

 

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

Sadly autostruts and robotics don't mix well.

They do though if you understand how it works and what the limitations are. The trick is to use autostrut (and rigid attachment) to make each moving part strong and solid, and to use a servo or hinge that’s strong enough for the job. You can autostrut a servo or a hinge as long as you don’t cross it. I believe they fixed autostrut so this doesn’t happen anymore in 1.7.2, so you can safely use it now - it just might not work quite like you expect if you don’t know about it.