REMEMBER: A KSP Collaborative Game based on Forgotten Space Program (modpack finalized (mostly))

[greenTurtle1134]

And I almost forgot: new poll, please vote, this time for:

1. Whether previous Science! is still valid
2. What stays and what goes in a Crash
3. Life support opinions
4. something secret

Edited August 11, 2019 by greenTurtle1134

[KerballingSmasher]

Voted!

[Angelo Kerman]

37 minutes ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

The main problem is that I'll have to find a mod that fits these requirements. The problem being:

1. Snacks! makes sense because it's made by @Angel-125 (we'll be using his mods anyway) but looking through the options, I don't think it has a "disable Kerbal for the time being and do nothing else" setting. In addition, it seems too simple (no waste resources, even)

If you turn on resource recycling, you'll get a Soil waste product resource. You can also define your own resources if desired... Just check out the Snacks wiki from the github repo. You can also cause kerbals to faint from a lack of Snacks. Out of the box, Snacks is pretty simple but you can make it quite sophisticated if desired.

[Lokachop]

Voted yet again.

[obney kerman]

I'm a bit concerned about the "something secret", but I voted.

[greenTurtle1134]

1 hour ago, Kerballing (Got Dunked On) said:

Voted!

 

24 minutes ago, Lokachop said:

Voted yet again.

 

19 minutes ago, obney kerman said:

I'm a bit concerned about the "something secret", but I voted.

That was an extremely quick vote! Let's look at the results so far:

• A three way tie on the science thing. Shoot. If this continues, I'll break it in favor of the "reduce" option
• In a close vote, we decided that vessels on Kerbin's surface are SAFE. (This is another thing I might override, as then you can just line up kerbals on the surface, which kinda makes the following option moot)
• In another close vote, we decided that all Kerbals on Kerbin are DEAD, even if they have been to space. (On second thought, this could absolutely work fine with the vessels survive thing. Just kill the Kerbals but leave the empty vessels)
• USI is our favorite life support mod, with Snacks! trailing second.
• Duna and Dres were picked for the secret thing.

If you haven't voted yet, please vote on the THIRD poll at this link: https://forms.gle/Bf5GssktDBDbZhbW6.

[Barzon]

All the NFT mods?

[greenTurtle1134]

18 minutes ago, Barzon Kerman said:

All the NFT mods?

Maybe not Near Future Spacecraft and Near Future Lifters, because we're going to have a bunch of lifters and spaceship parts anyway. But the rest go in.

And NF Spacecraft might give us one more aesthetic to set apart different cycles

[Barzon]

 1 thing. will Mechjeb be included?

[greenTurtle1134]

1 hour ago, Barzon Kerman said:

 1 thing. will Mechjeb be included?

People have different opinions on this, so... individual decision. Use the partless version if you want it. (I think that should work, right?)

[greenTurtle1134]

Some more responses have come in, and the verdicts are:

• By a margin of literally one vote, Science from previous Cycles will be valid and recoverable for full value.
• By another one vote, Vessels on Kerbin during a Crash will be destroyed.
• 71% agreement that all Kerbals on Kerbin disappear in a Crash
• USI Life Support is still in #1 place, but only by one vote
• And finally, Dres pulls ahead for the something secret.

That's it for polls. Now on to modpack assembly, and writing the program.

[greenTurtle1134]

Further news:

• USI life support just got released for 1.7  excellent timing! We are absolutely using that.
• An additional person voted in the poll so we are now tied on whether Science! from previous saves should be worth full or half value. I'm not even sure if I can make science worth half value by editing the persistence, so we'll figure this out later. Everything else stays the same.
• Right now, this is the modpack (links in spoiler):
   
  Spoiler

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/1987/Kerbal%20Attachment%20System%20%28KAS%29

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/1909/Kerbal%20Inventory%20System%20%28KIS%29

  • https://github.com/dkavolis/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/releases/tag/v0.15.11.1_Mach

  • https://github.com/TriggerAu/KerbalAlarmClock/releases

  • https://github.com/Kopernicus/Kopernicus/releases/

  • https://github.com/Poodmund/Outer-Planets-Mod/releases/tag/2.2.5

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/1746/ScrapYard

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/128/DMagic%20Orbital%20Science

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/1911/Surface%20Mounted%20Lights

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/2086/OSE%20Workshop%20Reworked

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/557/Near%20Future%20Propulsion

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/558/Near%20Future%20Electrical

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/559/Near%20Future%20Solar

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/563/Near%20Future%20Construction

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/708/Near%20Future%20Spacecraft

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/1434/Near%20Future%20Launch%20Vehicles

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/1682/Stockalike%20Station%20Parts%20Expansion%20Redux

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/710/Kerbal%20Atomics

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/537/Heat%20Control?ga=%253CGame+3102+%2527Kerbal+Space+Program%2527%253E

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/709/Cryogenic%20Engines

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/792/M.O.L.E.

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/336/Pathfinder

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/442/Bluedog%20Design%20Bureau

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/2098/Restock

  • https://spacedock.info/mod/2106/RestockPlus

  • https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI-LS/releases

  
  NF Aero has been removed because it's only rated for 1.6. NF Launch Vehicles will be left in because it's actually an analogue of the SpaceX launchers and has 5 m/7.5 m parts. Might be tweaked later. I'm still working on testing and integrating these mods, I'll post a unified install .zip when that's done.

[Barzon]

1 minute ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

I'll post a unified install .zip

Due to licencing, you should probably check with the mod creators about that.

[greenTurtle1134]

1 minute ago, Barzon Kerman said:

Due to licencing, you should probably check with the mod creators about that.

Ah.

Shoot.

There's a bunch no, actually we only need... a few. I've stuck to only about a dozen authors. What's the normal procedure for this sort of thing? How are you supposed to share a modpack?

[Barzon]

uhhh. Ask the creators, ig?

[KerballingSmasher]

Don't look at me, I don't know these things! 

 

No seriously, don't ask me.

[Geschosskopf]

On 8/14/2019 at 2:50 PM, greenTurtle1134 said:

Further news:

• USI life support just got released for 1.7  excellent timing! We are absolutely using that.

Well, good luck, all.  I'll be watching with interest from the sidelines.

[Dragon5]

On 8/15/2019 at 11:32 PM, Geschosskopf said:

I'll be watching with interest from the sidelines.

Same here!

[fulgur]

1. Is this dead? I wanted to join.

2. I believe you can check what license most mods are given. Many allow you to share them indiscriminately, so you should be able to do that for many of them.

[greenTurtle1134]

15 minutes ago, fulgur said:

1. Is this dead? I wanted to join.

I haven't been working on it much due to other things happening (including school) but it'll show up eventually.

20 minutes ago, fulgur said:

2. I believe you can check what license most mods are given. Many allow you to share them indiscriminately, so you should be able to do that for many of them.

That would help. (sounds of scrambling to find licenses)

[ruiluth]

This sounds interesting to me, but I'm a  bit wary of how complicated it's getting. I love part and gameplay mods but the more there are the harder everything is to keep track of. More mods mean less people who will join.

Additionally, I still don't see how ships from previous cycles are supposed to continue on their missions. The more people, the more missions. Imagine what it will be like for the tenth participant who has to keep up with all the long term missions from previous cycles.

Therefore, I propose a slight change: any Kerballed vessels remain active and controllable, and get tagged with a FORGOTTEN tag. Those kerbals will immediately contact mission control as soon as they can and try to get home. If their ship can take them home, then they fly home themselves. If they're stranded, then the goal is to rescue them. Once they're back, they're added to the roster and can be used by future players. This solves two problems: first, it keeps the total number of ongoing flights and active kerbals to a minimum, and two, it gives participants a goal and something to do about it. Depending on how their cycle goes, they could even launch part and fuel depots for the next cycle if a Forgotten kerbal warns mission control about it.

I hope this does eventually happen, but I do hope things get a little more focused before it starts.

[greenTurtle1134]

26 minutes ago, ruiluth said:

This sounds interesting to me, but I'm a  bit wary of how complicated it's getting. I love part and gameplay mods but the more there are the harder everything is to keep track of. More mods mean less people who will join.

Additionally, I still don't see how ships from previous cycles are supposed to continue on their missions. The more people, the more missions. Imagine what it will be like for the tenth participant who has to keep up with all the long term missions from previous cycles.

Therefore, I propose a slight change: any Kerballed vessels remain active and controllable, and get tagged with a FORGOTTEN tag. Those kerbals will immediately contact mission control as soon as they can and try to get home. If their ship can take them home, then they fly home themselves. If they're stranded, then the goal is to rescue them. Once they're back, they're added to the roster and can be used by future players. This solves two problems: first, it keeps the total number of ongoing flights and active kerbals to a minimum, and two, it gives participants a goal and something to do about it. Depending on how their cycle goes, they could even launch part and fuel depots for the next cycle if a Forgotten kerbal warns mission control about it.

I hope this does eventually happen, but I do hope things get a little more focused before it starts.

I haven't had time to work out the details of this yet. Hopefully I will.

Thanks for your suggestions. I agree that complicating things really is a bad idea, and your suggestions both make a lot of sense and don't really diverge far from my system. My reasons for not doing this include:

• The "call home and ask for a rescue" aspect doesn't quite jibe with the "turn all antennas off" aspect, because what are they calling home with? @Geschosskopf mentioned that the original Forgotten space program had communication protocols between different cycles be different enough that no calls could be placed at all (honestly I'd forgotten (hah!) that aspect). I feel like keeping antennas on would rapidly change the game to "move the probes around using the last guy's antenna network" (could probably be mitigated by tracking station upgrades, but still an issue).
• On a related note, what if someone sends a mission beyond comms range? It seems unreasonable that they'd get a one-shot "boost" of comm power to get a rescue request through
• These could be explained by radar or something, but the feel I was trying to capture was one of exploring the relics of the past, finding out what's up there. Getting to play as all the other programs instantly is... not what I had in mind. (Admittedly, this aspect is already in the dumpster because people can just read the Forum thread)

Summary: I have some issues with giving each new player control over all the old ships.

How about a compromise, though? After their turn is over, each player gets a short amount of time for their ships to "react" to the news. Go through all your ships, describe what the Kerbals see and think if you want to, and make any burns to get them home if possible. The ships will be marked as "unknown" but controllable (I think I can do that) so that new players can easily filter them out but can control them for emergencies, like if they're about to hit a maneuver node or the atmosphere. This is JUST FOR EMERGENCIES though - the understanding is still that you don't get to play as everyone else's Kerbals.

The issue with some player launching a long mission, and then everyone else having to play on their behalf, is still there, but that's relatively far off, and by then the Kerbals will have figured out the Crash cycle so it makes sense to do it in a more community fashion.

What do people think about this?

[fulgur]

That sounds nice. I think that it would be good if you could just hijack ships and divert them from their intended missions, i.e. a Jool-5 ship being diverted to make bases.

And if you do have very long missions, I think it would be nice if you could have some sort of plan for the manoeuvres you want to make, perhaps with contingency plans (ie If [crucial part] explodes in aero/lithobraking, abort Tylo mission, or if ΔV below [a number] divert to Dresteroid mining). Perhaps someone could put these into an online folder or GitHub repository.

As an aside, what's your position on kOS? You did allow MechJeb...

[greenTurtle1134]

3 hours ago, fulgur said:

That sounds nice. I think that it would be good if you could just hijack ships and divert them from their intended missions, i.e. a Jool-5 ship being diverted to make bases.

With the stipulation that you have to REACH them first, definitely.

3 hours ago, fulgur said:

And if you do have very long missions, I think it would be nice if you could have some sort of plan for the manoeuvres you want to make, perhaps with contingency plans (ie If [crucial part] explodes in aero/lithobraking, abort Tylo mission, or if ΔV below [a number] divert to Dresteroid mining). Perhaps someone could put these into an online folder or GitHub repository.

Well, as @ruiluth said, that would turn into having to run everyone else's missions for them. Basic stuff will probably be fine, especially if the original launcher is alive and on the forum.

3 hours ago, fulgur said:

As an aside, what's your position on kOS? You did allow MechJeb...

kOS is, to my great surprise (and considerable annoyance) not yet updated for 1.7. Even if it was, I don't want to complicate things FURTHER by copying over the scripts folder each time.

[fulgur]

It is updated, actually. You're in the wrong thread, look here.

I agree that it would complicate things. It's a shame though, because NO NOT THAT ARGUMENT NOT IN THIS THREAD and therefore if I fly with autopilot it's the one I wrote myself. And I really do like having kOS do my manoeuvre nodes for me.