will ksp 2 have linux support?

[J.Random]

1 hour ago, RealKerbal3x said:

‘PC’ doesn’t mean ‘Windows computer’

You mean "it shouldn't", and I agree. In a logical world, that would be the case. In game (or software in general) publishing world, however, Microsoft monopolizied this term long time ago, so multiplatform titles usually have to specify release as "PC, Mac and Linux".

[RealKerbal3x]

12 minutes ago, J.Random said:

You mean "it shouldn't", and I agree. In a logical world, that would be the case. In game (or software in general) publishing world, however, Microsoft monopolizied this term long time ago, so multiplatform titles usually have to specify release as "PC, Mac and Linux".

Yes, I should have said ‘shouldn’t’. It’s very annoying how the term has come to be associated with Windows.

I’m a Windows user, but I’d still feel sorry for Mac/Linux users if KSP2 is only available for Windows. I do think it’d be a major missed opportunity by Private Division if they don’t release on Mac and Linux as well.

[Dr. Boo]

19 hours ago, J.Random said:

Whether there will be Linux release or not might actually be a decently accurate "miner's canary" for planned bait and switch on EGS exclusivity. If Linux support is dropped, the canary is dead.

YEP, MODS and Linux support.

[Douby]

Hello

Please really consider making Linux native version of this game. We run a physics class in school with 30 PCs and we definitely can afford 30 licenses of KSP2, but we cannot switch to Windows anymore. Thanks to KSP1, physics classes at school are most popular and educative.

I hope to hear soon a little confirmation of making Linux version

Thanks

Edited August 22, 2019 by Douby

[sarbian]

It is a Unity game so building for Linux or OSX is usually "simple" but I would not be surprised they want to first iron out the feature/bugs on Windows before dealing with platform specific shenanigans. 

And even if it stays Windows only you have greater cross OS compatibility nowadays with Proton...

[Curveball Anders]

1 hour ago, sarbian said:

It is a Unity game so building for Linux or OSX is usually "simple" but I would not be surprised they want to first iron out the feature/bugs on Windows before dealing with platform specific shenanigans. 

And even if it stays Windows only you have greater cross OS compatibility nowadays with Proton...

Exactly.

The fact that they're talking about consoles is that console support is much harder to fix post design so it has to be included from scratch.

Which doesn't mean that KSP2 will actually be launched for console at first light, there's the little issue of certification for each platform (and region in some cases).

[Guest]

deleted

Edited March 29, 2020 by Guest

[J.Random]

On 8/22/2019 at 3:07 PM, sarbian said:

And even if it stays Windows only you have greater cross OS compatibility nowadays with Proton...

Except, ironically, for Unity games. For some freaking reason, mouse issues (not registering clicks or registering one click as multiples, randomly resetting pointer position to 0,0 or completely freaking out when mouse controls the camera) are rather common when running Unity games with Wine/Proton.

Edited August 26, 2019 by J.Random

[Arugela]

On 8/20/2019 at 9:15 AM, Razende said:

This is true, and even if its not on Steam, you would probably be able to get it running via Lutris. Most times it "works" but not without problems. KSP could decide to give official proton support, to fix those problems, but its always better to have a native Linux version.

I think you can tell steam to add a non steam game and point to it's exec and then tell it to use proton also. Not sure if it effects anything though.

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, Arugela said:

I think you can tell steam to add a non steam game and point to it's exec and then tell it to use proton also. Not sure if it effects anything though.

You can, but that in no way implies that KSP2 for Windows will run on Linux. You can't just throw any old Windows program on your Linux box, tell Steam to run it, and have it suddenly work.

[Geonovast]

On 9/17/2019 at 4:40 AM, 5thHorseman said:

You can, but that in no way implies that KSP2 for Windows will run on Linux. You can't just throw any old Windows program on your Linux box, tell Steam to run it, and have it suddenly work.

You could always use just plain old WINE, which Proton is built off of.

I will be disappointed if KSP 2 doesn't end up with a Linux version, especially since a Linux version was a major factor in me buying the first one, but I have a feeling the Windows version would work adequately in WINE.

[kbios]

+1 for Linux support. Personally I won't buy it unless there is a Linux version

[Arugela]

On 9/17/2019 at 5:40 AM, 5thHorseman said:

You can, but that in no way implies that KSP2 for Windows will run on Linux. You can't just throw any old Windows program on your Linux box, tell Steam to run it, and have it suddenly work.

1. yes you can.

2. Yes I'm being pedantic.

It's a bit more common now than it used to be.

Play on linux has been getting better at this too. It feels like, more often than not, if it works it does so without stuff added.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Arugela

[E3FxGaming]

On 9/21/2019 at 2:06 AM, Arugela said:

1. yes you can.

2. Yes I'm being pedantic.

It's a bit more common now than it used to be.

Play on linux has been getting better at this too. It feels like, more often than not, if it works it does so without stuff added.

I'd like to see a native Linux version too.

Especially since this would incentivize 3rd party modding tools such as CKAN and mod creators to be mindful of Linux players and accept support requests in case something doesn't work completely as expected for us.

 

With games running in Proton you can't really ask anyone for support, since Linux PC do technically meet the minimum system requirements when the min system requirements say something about Windows.

[jshu]

+1, would really like to have a Linux version!

[Geonovast]

 

38 minutes ago, E3FxGaming said:

With games running in Proton you can't really ask anyone for support, since Linux PC do technically meet the minimum system requirements when the min system requirements say something about Windows.

 

Proton is both a blessing and a curse for Linux gaming.

Its intention is the blessing... let Linux users be able to play Windows-only games with out any sort of emulation or dual booting system.

However, it makes the catch-22 even worse.  "Nobody uses Linux, because nothing works on Linux... nothing's developed for Linux because nobody uses it.... because nothing works on Linux..."

Now we throw "Why should I develop a Linux version?  Just use Proton" into the mix.  Proton is great.  Some of my games work flawlessly after one or two clicks.  Some need hours of troubleshooting to work at 1/3rd the framerate.  Some don't work at all.  I first started realizing this when Borderlands 3 came to Steam.  Borderlands 2 and TPS have Linux versions.  BL3 does not.  I call that a regression.

And now we also have KSP, which has a Linux version.  While KSP 2, being built on the same engine, will not have one.. at least on release.  And that's all we've gotten.  Not "We'll get to it when everything's settled."  Just "No plans at this time."  It's very much making me on the fence as to whether or not I'll buy it at release.

[steve_v]

55 minutes ago, Geonovast said:

It's very much making me on the fence as to whether or not I'll buy it at release.

It's got me squarely on the "no tux, no bux" side of said fence. Wine/DXVK/Proton/SteamPlay whatever API layer is flavour of the month simply doesn't cut it.

If relatively small studios like Squad or Egosoft (custom in-house engine, vulkan renderer, runs better on GNU/Linux than Windows) can release a decent port, so can Take Two Interactive. They've got the budget to make it happen (and that budget will be miniscule since Unity already does all the heavy lifting), they just can't be arsed... So I can't be arsed buying their product.

If the developers actually collaborate with the WINE team to make sure everything works, give them some publicity (or, ya know, a cut of GNU/Linux sales as a donation), and provide support for the configuration, then I'll consider "it works on proton" as a valid reason for not releasing a native port.

Not once have I seen a wine logo on the splash of a game that bundles it, not once have I heard of a big game developer donating (money, time or code) to DXVK, and not once have I got anything better than "we probably won't ban you, but you're on your own" as a response to running games with proton... And sometimes they ban you anyway. Proton is not the answer, official native support for the platform is.

Edited October 23, 2020 by steve_v

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, steve_v said:

and not once have I got anything better than "we probably won't ban you, but you're on your own" as a response to running games with proton... And sometimes they ban you anyway.

Huh?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

Huh?

Some games' anticheat instaban linux users, that's a thing

Edited October 23, 2020 by Guest

[MechBFP]

20 hours ago, Aperture Science said:

Some games' anticheat instaban linux users, that's a thing

If it’s not a supported platform that does make sense. Pretty easy avenue for cheaters to cheat if all they needed to do was spin up a Linux system to bypass their cheat detection system.

Obviously it shouldn’t permanently ban your account or anything obnoxious like that, it should just say something like “playing on this cheat protected server on Linux is not supported” and just boot you off or not let you join. 
 

Edited October 24, 2020 by MechBFP

[coffeezombie1979]

As a long time KSP fan who exclusively uses Linux as my operating system I must insist KSP2 be made available for linux users. Personally I have forsworn the use of windows for the rest of my life and have severely curtailed my gaming specifically because many developers do not offer linux support and will not purchase any games that require microsoft OS or expensive stand alone game systems. Linux OS support was the #1 factor that led me to purchase original KSP.  I love KSP but will not sacrifice security and reliability to play any game. In large part this reasoning is an out growth of my negative experiences with Microsoft hardware and software support often breaking the functionality of games on both PC and consoles leading to maximum frustration and countless hours of "fixing" things when I just want to play my game. 

[steve_v]

On 10/24/2020 at 1:49 PM, MechBFP said:

Pretty easy avenue for cheaters to cheat if all they needed to do was spin up a Linux system to bypass their cheat detection system

That's really not how it works. GNU/Linux players getting banned is a simple case of the anti-cheat generating false-positives because it's poking about in system files that are none of it's business.

Most anti-cheat systems check the integrity of a bunch of Windows .dlls, and as wine ships it's own reverse-engineered .dlls to provide Windows-compatible APIs, it triggers the anticheat. No actual cheating is involved anywhere.

 

On 10/24/2020 at 1:49 PM, MechBFP said:

it should just say something like “playing on this cheat protected server on Linux is not supported”

They should get a grip, and stop silently auditing your OS in the name of anti-cheating/piracy. Checking game file integrity is one thing, banning someone because they're running a not-microsoft-supplied dx11.dll is entirely another.
Installing a TSR trojan (Denuvo) or hijacking system device drivers (StarForce) is of course equally unacceptable, and equally destructive to the efforts of the WINE/DXVK/Proton developers and the enjoyment of non-Windows players.

The answer isn't a nice error message and an auto-kick, it's not grubbing about in or tampering with the users system to begin with. Ideally it's also officially supporting non-Windows users, either with a native port or through collaboration with WINE/Proton/SteamPlay/cider/crossover etc.

 

On 12/24/2020 at 2:56 PM, coffeezombie1979 said:

Linux OS support was the #1 factor that led me to purchase original KSP.

Likewise.

My purchasing decision process goes much like this:

#1: GNU/Linux native.
#2: Subject matter. (in this case: Spaaace)
#3: Developer not owned by slimy "big gaming" publishing house.
#4: Impressions from (preferably) playable demo or extensive reviews.

KSP ticked all those boxes, but so far KSP2 is only scoring 1/4...

 

On 12/24/2020 at 2:56 PM, coffeezombie1979 said:

I love KSP but will not sacrifice security and reliability to play any game.

Again, likewise.
Security, reliability, flexibility, and not being nagged, advertised at, spied on, or generally treated like a brain-damaged child by my operating system. Also I'm not about to reinvent my workflow and go back to an OS I can't stand using for more than a few minutes just for a game.

It's been demonstrated repeatedly that GNU/Linux runs games just as well as Windows, and that it doesn't take a huge team or vast amounts of investment to port a game to it - assuming of course the engine was sensibly designed with portability in mind.
Unity3D is effectively the poster-child for portable cross-platform game engines, so there's precious little excuse for KSP2 not releasing GNU/Linux and MacOS builds.

 

[MechBFP]

6 hours ago, steve_v said:

On 10/24/2020 at 7:49 AM, MechBFP said:

Pretty easy avenue for cheaters to cheat if all they needed to do was spin up a Linux system to bypass their cheat detection system

That's really not how it works. GNU/Linux players getting banned is a simple case of the anti-cheat generating false-positives because it's poking about in system files that are none of it's business.

Most anti-cheat systems check the integrity of a bunch of Windows .dlls, and as wine ships it's own reverse-engineered .dlls to provide Windows-compatible APIs, it triggers the anticheat. No actual cheating is involved anywhere.

 

On 10/24/2020 at 7:49 AM, MechBFP said:

it should just say something like “playing on this cheat protected server on Linux is not supported”

They should get a grip, and stop silently auditing your OS in the name of anti-cheating/piracy. Checking game file integrity is one thing, banning someone because they're running a not-microsoft-supplied dx11.dll is entirely another.
Installing a TSR trojan (Denuvo) or hijacking system device drivers (StarForce) is of course equally unacceptable, and equally destructive to the efforts of the WINE/DXVK/Proton developers and the enjoyment of non-Windows players.

The answer isn't a nice error message and an auto-kick, it's not grubbing about in or tampering with the users system to begin with. Ideally it's also officially supporting non-Windows users, either with a native port or through collaboration with WINE/Proton/SteamPlay/cider/crossover etc.

 

You do realize that it is quite possible to perform certain cheats by modifying the graphics drivers, i.e. files that aren't related directly to the game, right? If they can't monitor ALL relevant files, the anti-cheat solution is garbage and easily circumvented in some cases, plain and simple.

The fact of that matter is that you are complaining about the game doing something like banning you when you are running it on a platform that it is not supported on.

You can argue the morals and ethics about it all you want, and I don't necessarily disagree with your position on that front as well, but its not the dev's job to support something they don't support.

[richfiles]

I already despise Take Two with a passion... If KSP 2 doesn't have Linux and Mac OS support, it won't even be hard for me to deny that company any of my money.

How many mods are developed by Linux players? Has anyone ever figured that out? I feel like that's an important number to consider. If KSP 2 doesn't support Linux, then I can already just make the assumption that mod support isn't being given priority, because I feel like those most willing to dig into coding are also likely the people who most likely consider Linux as an OS of choice. Oh, I could absolutely be wrong on that, but I feel it's a factor that might hold weight.

[Lord Aurelius]

I play a lot of games and have a Windows gaming PC so that Linux availability doesn't affect me personally, but given the demographics of the KSP playerbase I'm saddened that KSP2 doesn't look like it will have Linux support at launch.

It probably comes down to finances unfortunately, they have telemetry from the game that tells among other things which platform the game is being played on, and its very possible that the number of Linux users (who are probably also adept at disabling telemetry further reducing the number) is small enough that they came to the logical conclusion that there simply aren't enough players on Linux to justify the effort to support the platform at launch.

From a development standpoint Linux has a lot of advantages, but not necessarily for KSP mod development itself. I'm kind of in the opposite situation of a lot of people in here in that I do most of my coding work in a Linux VM on my company-provided machine, but use Windows on my gaming PC since games generally work without too much fiddling around but I can still use and tweak mods without hassle.