Cross Platform Multiplayer for KSP 2?

[THE17KYD]

I play on PC, but my brother plays on XBox. Since KSP 2 IS going on XBox, would the multiplayer be cross platform for PC and XBox? 

[Chilkoot]

I've followed most of the interviews and reveals pretty closely, and as far as I've heard there is no word on cross-platform one way or the other yet.

Really the only thing we've heard about multiplayer is that it will likely require authentication (like Minecraft servers by default) where single player may not.  Oh also that it generated a lot of laughter among the group while under development.

Personally, my biggest question is whether we'll have dedicated servers.  Needing to have a host player logged in to complete builds, etc. would be a big detriment to the experience.

[The Aziz]

I'm betting my coffee for Sony refusing to allow crossplay on their console.

[EnderKid2]

Also, you would have to use a clean install, as consoles can't mod.

[GoldForest]

I doubt PC and Console will get cross platforming. 

Xbox One X/Project Scarlett,  PS4/5, and POSSIBLY Swtich, will be able to play with each other, but not PC for the simple fact that as @EnderKid2 pointed out, PC can mod like crazy. 

So yeah, three way crossplay with consoles? Possibly. 

Four way crossplay with consoles and PC? No. 

[The Aziz]

A simple "game incompatible" could work with console-PC crossplay, but then again, while Microsoft could agree to this, since Xbox architecture is very similar to Windows these days (many ✖⬜ games work on Windows as well), I still can't see any sort of cooperation from Nintendo and Sony.

Edited October 21, 2019 by The Aziz

[GoldForest]

5 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

A simple "game incompatible" could work with console-PC crossplay, but then again, while Microsoft could agree to this, since Xbox architecture is very similar to Windows these days (many ✖⬜ games work on Windows as well), I still can't see any sort of cooperation from Nintendo and Sony.

Sony is actually giving up their high-horse routine. They will start allowing Crossplay. 

Nintendo has allowed crossplay in the past and has actually agreed to do more crossplay, including a huge update to Minecraft Bedrock edition. PC, Xbox, and Switch can all play Minecraft together. So Nintendo crossplay isn't that far fetched. 

The only problem is if Sony keeps their word. 

[Pecan]

(As an applications analyst) There are three problems inherent to multi-player systems:

1. Can everyone hear me?  Communications and synchronisation; quite simply if Star Theory have a plan for addressing time-warp the inter-platform messaging should not be an issue these days.  There is no technical reason saves and comms should not be cross-compatible, since the only thing that needs to read them is the game itself.  Anyone who says any internet-connected machines can't immediately and automatically communicate (and therefore share data) is trying to charge you a licence fee.
2. Can you see what I see?  Shared models.  Different platforms have different processing and graphics capabilities so it is necessary to accept that they may have different representations - and will have different limits - for the various models.  Possibly the biggest factor in this will be complexity; some platforms will simply not be able to handle scenes as complex as others.  That's most likely to limit the number of parts (physics) that can be used and their complexity (graphics) within an 'acceptable' framerate.  Users of less-powerful computers will probably just have to accept that their machines tank if they visit more complex and busy areas of a shared universe (eg; a very active space-port).  In any case, if KSP allows the same part-set on different platforms (without which it's pretty hard to share tips or designs) then whatever their local representations they should be shareable within limits.  It is not guaranteed, for instance, that animations, lighting or even textures will be equally represented even for what is nominally the same part.  Again, players will just have to accept that some people can't see their pretty, flashing navigation lights and it shouldn't be much of an issue (but see below on antagonistic games).  Parts mods, on the other hand, create an entirely new problem in that other machines (possibly even of the same type) will have no visual or physical representation for them at all.  Describing even a very basic collision-box for such parts adds a great deal to the minimum communications volume and complexity.  As such, I'd expect constructions with parts-mods to simply not function (or even be allowed) in shared environments.
3. Can you do what I can?  Cheat-mods.  Pretty much not an issue in co-operative multiplayer but seeing through walls and similar wrecks online FPSs.  Militarised, antagonistic, KSP such as Panzer1b might like (I don't know, but I pick him as the most enthusiastic advocate of KSP weaponry that I know) would have the same problems with cheats.  While above I've said parts-mods will (and should) probably not be allowed, non-parts mods are better ignored or selected on a per-server basis.  In other words, if there is no physics or graphics penalty for someone using a particular mod, why would anyone care that they are?  Someone using say, MechJeb, on an otherwise all-manual server affects no-one else if it is co-operative.  Wargaming servers will want many more restrictions.

[Incarnation of Chaos]

The current generation of Consoles are using fairly weak CPU's; i could see crossplay on the next gen using Ryzen. But the Xbone and PS4 will crumble under loads even 5 year i5/i3 CPU's can tolerate. So just from a performance standpoint i don't think it'll happen; especially since we don't even have a solid timeline on the console release. They're building for PC first; consoles aren't even going to be a consideration till much later.

[GoldForest]

37 minutes ago, Incarnation of Chaos said:

The current generation of Consoles are using fairly weak CPU's; i could see crossplay on the next gen using Ryzen. But the Xbone and PS4 will crumble under loads even 5 year i5/i3 CPU's can tolerate. So just from a performance standpoint i don't think it'll happen; especially since we don't even have a solid timeline on the console release. They're building for PC first; consoles aren't even going to be a consideration till much later.

Maybe project Scarlett and PS5 will be able to handle it. Doubtful, but you never know. Microsoft says Scarlett will be 4 times the performance of the X.B.O.X. 

[Incarnation of Chaos]

3 hours ago, GoldForest said:

Maybe project Scarlett and PS5 will be able to handle it. Doubtful, but you never know. Microsoft says Scarlett will be 4 times the performance of the X.B.O.X. 

That's what i mean by "The next gen"

They're confirmed to be using Ryzen APU's; even Zen 1 is well above the current performance of the garbage Kaveri cores in the current machines.

[THE17KYD]

On 10/21/2019 at 12:48 AM, EnderKid2 said:

Also, you would have to use a clean install, as consoles can't mod.

What would that have to do with anything? I’m fine with stock, that’s what i usually play. Yeah, mods are more fun, but stock is by no means bad.

On 10/21/2019 at 1:31 AM, GoldForest said:

I doubt PC and Console will get cross platforming. 

Xbox One X/Project Scarlett,  PS4/5, and POSSIBLY Swtich, will be able to play with each other, but not PC for the simple fact that as @EnderKid2 pointed out, PC can mod like crazy. 

So yeah, three way crossplay with consoles? Possibly. 

Four way crossplay with consoles and PC? No. 

I really don’t see a problem with the modding, wouldn’t the multiplayer system be more like Minecraft, where everyone needs the same version and mods (if they have any)? 

[GoldForest]

39 minutes ago, THE17KYD said:

I really don’t see a problem with the modding, wouldn’t the multiplayer system be more like Minecraft, where everyone needs the same version and mods (if they have any)? 

For the simple fact that consoles will get probably only 5% of all mods. And the mods that do get put on console will be approved by Microsoft or Sony themselves. Nintendo doesn't even allow mods I think, might be wrong though. 

On top of that, Star Theory will have to take a mod and put it on consoles. They're not going to look through every mod. They might do a community vote thing, but that might happen once every update. 

No, I dont see crossplay with pc and consoles working out. It would take too much effort imo for the devs to keep up with how mods update constantly. I doubt consoles will even ever see mods. 

[Pecan]

1 hour ago, GoldForest said:

No, I dont see crossplay with pc and consoles working out. It would take too much effort imo for the devs to keep up with how mods update constantly. I doubt consoles will even ever see mods.

So then, if consoles need to be stock in order to crossplay, what is to stop a stock PC install joining in?  Just because PCs can be modded it doesn't mean they must be.  In any case in modded installs it is trivial to eliminate any vehicles using unsupported parts-mods (as they are in currect KSP 1 with each update) and non-parts mods such as KER, MJ, etc. do not have any unwanted multiplayer implications for co-operative multiplayer.

[linuxgurugamer]

10 minutes ago, Pecan said:

So then, if consoles need to be stock in order to crossplay, what is to stop a stock PC install joining in?  Just because PCs can be modded it doesn't mean they must be.  In any case in modded installs it is trivial to eliminate any vehicles using unsupported parts-mods (as they are in currect KSP 1 with each update) and non-parts mods such as KER, MJ, etc. do not have any unwanted multiplayer implications for co-operative multiplayer.

Probably because the two games will be similiar, but different in subtle ways as a result of the platforms

[Pecan]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

Probably because the two games will be similiar, but different in subtle ways as a result of the platforms

And yet each console platform will be so similar to the others that they are compatible?  It seems more likely the "can't do crossplay with PCs" mindset is just because of the FPS/competitive cheat-mod problem - which doesn't apply to co-operative multiplayer.

PS: I've just been promoting your (now) Probe Control Room for KSP 2 as well

[linuxgurugamer]

1 minute ago, Pecan said:

And yet each console platform will be so similar to the others that they are compatible?  It seems more likely the "can't do crossplay with PCs" mindset is just because of the FPS/competitive cheat-mod problem - which doesn't apply to co-operative multiplayer.

PS: I've just been promoting your (now) Probe Control Room for KSP 2 as well

It might be nice, but I'm not going to be porting any mods to KSP2 for a while.  And then, it would probably need complete rewrites. The PCR is something I'm keeping alive, but won't do the rewrite myself

[dave1904]

 

On 10/21/2019 at 9:00 AM, GoldForest said:

Sony is actually giving up their high-horse routine. They will start allowing Crossplay. 

Nintendo has allowed crossplay in the past and has actually agreed to do more crossplay, including a huge update to Minecraft Bedrock edition. PC, Xbox, and Switch can all play Minecraft together. So Nintendo crossplay isn't that far fetched. 

The only problem is if Sony keeps their word. 

would be cool. I actually played portal 2 on pc coop with a friend on his ps3. Worked fantastic and it was so nice to be able to have the pc fps and play with friends. The funniest part is that the connection was one of the best in an online game ever. I never expected that from the first PS3-PC cross platform game ever I believe.