RP-1 Realistic Progression One for KSP 1.12.3

[TomKerbal]

4 hours ago, Ker Ball One said:

Is the X-Plane Research program still worth doing early career?

I've read older Reddit comments from past years saying that it can be very good to gain funds, because you can quickly reuse the same plane to redo the same optional contracts, by safely landing, so no need to reintegrate.

But wasn't RP-1 rebalanced so that contracts don't pay out funding directly.  But rather you only get payments from the active program.  Which this one, pays smaller amounts but over the span of 14 years. 

Considering that's this program takes two program slots, there should be more lucrative programs to gain funding, making this kind of a waste for early career.

From what I gather, the reputation gained for each optional contract is still pretty small and that increase in program subsidy still isn't worth it.

Also, with so many tech tree nodes costing science in order to complete it's 6 contracts, and limited science to be gained at the lower altitudes, I'm not sure science would justify it either.

Am I missing something?  What is the primary benefit of the x plane research program in early career?

I needed it at the beginning to get ahead, I remember, because I didn't really want to do it. But then Mach 2 airplane was fun, it wasn't easy.

[Ker Ball One]

4 hours ago, TomKerbal said:

I needed it at the beginning to get ahead, I remember, because I didn't really want to do it. But then Mach 2 airplane was fun, it wasn't easy.

Ahead in what way?  Funds, Reputation, Confidence, Science?

 

The reputation-subsidy relationship is new and nebulous.  The wiki mentions it plateaus over time.  But I'd like hard numbers (a chart), because on it's face, it seems like it's not worth it.

Edited June 4 by Ker Ball One

[TomKerbal]

Yes. I think so.  No way around to avoid it, I remember.

Btw: Who needs KSP2 ?  :

Mars Lander of my current version 63, about 1000 hours of work for the hole mission now...)

Edited June 5 by TomKerbal

[Fizwalker]

Hey, I'm looking at adding some engines to the RP-1 tech tree- (Piston engines made during the 1930s-50s) They're currently non-rp-0 parts. How do I go about adding them to the mod and tech tree?

 

I would like to fly early science aircraft using props.... Given that the current state of RP-1 removes all props.... Are there any instructions outside of the Wiki (Wiki doesn't work) outside of it that?

 

....

[Razgriz1]

4 hours ago, Fizwalker said:

Hey, I'm looking at adding some engines to the RP-1 tech tree- (Piston engines made during the 1930s-50s) They're currently non-rp-0 parts. How do I go about adding them to the mod and tech tree?

 

I would like to fly early science aircraft using props.... Given that the current state of RP-1 removes all props.... Are there any instructions outside of the Wiki (Wiki doesn't work) outside of it that?

 

....

Current RP-1 has zero science below 40 km (except for hypersonic flight, which good luck hitting that with a prop) so why?

[Fizwalker]

19 hours ago, Razgriz1 said:

Current RP-1 has zero science below 40 km (except for hypersonic flight, which good luck hitting that with a prop) so why?

I find it fun and challenging to build aircraft. I'm also using Kerbalism and using props makes sense for some of the tasks it provides. Lastly, it fits with the type of play I am  running through-- that of the Cold War. I am currently playing as the USAF. Having a B-29 or other craft available lets me fly the air launch side of things too.

 

I've always thought that this was an awesome time to be a part of and there could have been many ways to get to the Mercury program and beyond. Having the options to use props adds to my experience. I'm not trying to get them added to the basic RP-1 tech tree because I know it's not for everyone.... But I would like to get some help in modifying my own install. Again, I find this era fascinating and I want to add to the experience. 

 

Edited for clarity

Edited June 6 by Fizwalker

[Ker Ball One]

KCT allows me to simulate parts that are still being researched.  But not configure capsule crew experiments or processes, if they are still being researched.

Is there a way to perform simulated test flights with technology still being researched?

Edited June 9 by Ker Ball One

[TomKerbal]

Fueling the Earth Drive in Earth orbit now(first of 3 tankers). AMADEUS (2nd Mars mission, version 65) is the name of mission & ship. Something with Mars and Destiny... I have to figure out yet....

Mission start is planed for 4.7.1988 (1988-07-04). Now it is 1987-01-18 .

 

 

A test crew has already entered the ship and made some tests (mission training for AdvApollo & Gemini-L is required for that, I found out :-D; good to know for the final crew).

 

[Ker Ball One]

On 6/3/2024 at 5:11 PM, Ker Ball One said:

The reputation-subsidy relationship is new and nebulous.  The wiki mentions it plateaus over time.  But I'd like hard numbers (a chart), because on it's face, it seems like it's not worth it.

Apparently if you are in the SpaceCenter scene, you get a LOT of info by hovering over your Reputation.  Including things like current Subsidy based on Reputation and the maximum Rep you can get until the subsidy is capped.  That's the relationship I was missing.  I don't see the wiki documenting that.

Also, although hovering over your Science gives your Total Science earned, hovering over Confidence doesn't (but maybe should), show the current Confidence-to-Science ratio.  I was able to find that info in the wiki, but it'd be nice for the hover info to tell you how close you are to the threshold that will lower your ratio. 

Quote

0-150 = 4:1,    >150-600 = 3:1,    >600-3100 = 2:1,    >3100 = 1:1

Next question that seems undocumented, is the DrawYearBasedMult function which changes your research rate based on (your current year)?  I would like to know how this works and how to optimize my space program research.  Apparently, researching later nodes too soon comes with a penalty.  I love the realism, because it ensures you don't get too advanced in tech much sooner than they real world history.

Edited June 18 by Ker Ball One

[Fadamor]

https://www.dropbox.com/t/cxXEcf5P2OH3YvUw
I've messed up my budget. I cannot do anymore integrating because of this "NaN <0%>" thing. Can someone point me in the direction on how to get out of this status?

SOLVED: Procedural Wings used as tail fins were causing the issue. Now ALL my procedural wings and control surfaces are bugged, but I was able to use stock Delta-Deluxe fins to get the rocket built.

Edited June 24 by Fadamor
Problem Solved

[Xechran]

A bit confused, and unable to find a contract that I need for progression in the Early Observation Satellite program. The Dedicated Earth Observation Satellite (basic film payload) contract requires completion of "First Orbit Recovery" before it can be accepted. I have recovered numerous orbiting science payloads, so I think I am looking for a contract to accept. Except I can't find anything that matches.

What am I missing? I presume it is something nakedly apparent such that everyone is completing this without difficulty, which is why I can't find anything about this in a search.

[Ker Ball One]

1 hour ago, Xechran said:

A bit confused, and unable to find a contract that I need for progression in the Early Observation Satellite program. The Dedicated Earth Observation Satellite (basic film payload) contract requires completion of "First Orbit Recovery" before it can be accepted. I have recovered numerous orbiting science payloads, so I think I am looking for a contract to accept. Except I can't find anything that matches.

What am I missing? I presume it is something nakedly apparent such that everyone is completing this without difficulty, which is why I can't find anything about this in a search.

Dedicated Earth Imaging Satellite on Line 48, requires a "contractType = first_OrbitRecover".

first_OrbitRecover (titled: "Reach Orbital Speed & Return Safely to Earth") is a contract located in several Programs.

"Early Earth Observation Satellites", "Crewed Spaceplane Development", or "Crewed Orbit" programs.

Edited June 25 by Ker Ball One

[Xechran]

Bingo! Thank you.

"Early Earth Observation" is the program I am working on, and requires the OrbitRecover flag. No contract in it satisfies that flag. "Crewed Spaceplane" is a later program and its contracts are unavailable to me. However, the "Crewed Orbit" program which I cannot accept does still allow access to its "Reach Orbit and Return" contract. It looks like it is visually flagged as acceptable, but I am unable to see the flag (vision issues). This would be why others could do this and I could not.

I find it odd that you cannot complete a sputnik/luna/explorer program without first sending men in to space. Progression seems counter intuitive.

[Ker Ball One]

2 hours ago, Xechran said:

No contract in it satisfies that flag.

Yeah, it is confusing.  Programs may not "offer" all the contracts that are listed as "objectives". 

2 hours ago, Xechran said:

I find it odd that you cannot complete a sputnik/luna/explorer program without first sending men in to space. Progression seems counter intuitive.

There are other Programs from the "Satellites" agency besides "Early Earth Observation Satellites", that may better reflect sputnik/luna/explorer. 

"Crewed Orbit" is the name of the Program.  But that's just the ultimate objective, only half of the contracts actually require a crew.  
I guess since this is Realistic Progression, they are going with real history.  Which does reflect that sputnik/luna/explorer were all just the starting part of larger programs to send men.

It's common to have some programs that have cross requirements.  Like Crewed Lunar Exploration requires completion or at least having Uncrewed Lunar Surface ACTIVE.  (Even though it's possible to  go straight to the US Apollo program without first doing uncrewed orbiters and landers, they made it a requirement). 

It's all a bit of a subjective jumble.  I still don't know why some programs are under the "FAI" agency when it feels like they should be "Exploration".  And IMHO, I don't think one agency should require contracts from another. 

[SheepDog2142]

On 12/14/2020 at 3:21 AM, AeroSky said:

Is there a way to use the procedural avionics alone without the entire mod?

Thanks!

Id love this for my less than real RP1 playthrough on my multiplayer server. Procedural Avionics as a standalone would be amazing. Or heck just a Full RP1 for KSRSS

[TomKerbal]

I finally finished the RP-1 Mars mission; I call it “AMADEUS” .

Saved for eternity (hopefully) here:

https://kerbalx.com/TomKerbal/MM2035v66

[Zaxxon]

Hi, First, thanks to all for all the great work in packaging things together, testing, documenting, etc for the bundle of RO/RP-1/RSS setup.  Has anyone done anything like this for the kerbol system?  I'd like to keep my Kerbals in the stock world - kerbin, etc - but would like to have the harder game play of larger scale planets along with a lot of the other more challenging mechanics of RO/RP-1.

I've tried JNSQ + Test Flight + Kerbalism + some other stuff, but having issues making an overall setup that is "clean" to play and all things work as well as a whole as they do with the Express RO/RP1/RSS setup.

And I can't get engines to ever be very reliable when running Test Flight.  But I don't like that kerbalism without it doesn't make engines less reliable when you haven't used them much.  It's cool having to run them though test flights to build up their reliability.  But they never get to a point where they still don't fail far too frequently with Test Flight.

[olegst90]

Do both vessels have to be new in order to complete First Docking contract (from Advanced Crewed orbit)? Or can I dock a single new vessel to a previously launched one?

[Starwaster]

16 hours ago, Zaxxon said:

Hi, First, thanks to all for all the great work in packaging things together, testing, documenting, etc for the bundle of RO/RP-1/RSS setup.  Has anyone done anything like this for the kerbol system?  I'd like to keep my Kerbals in the stock world - kerbin, etc - but would like to have the harder game play of larger scale planets along with a lot of the other more challenging mechanics of RO/RP-1.

There's a mod that rescales Kerbol System by 10x. That brings it up to RSS scale. Kerbin adjusted to have a 130km atmosphere cutoff. I think it's actually called ReScale 10x? If you also want RP1/RO then you'd have to do a custom install without RSS but that probably means installing manually without CKAN because RSS is a requirement of RO. So you'd do something like an installation that has 10x + whatever RO mods that you can't do without. Real Fuels at the very least, maybe FAR for aerodynamic handling. Plus whatever else that I'm not thinking of right now because I'm not in the mood to brain... Be mindful though of grabbing configs directly from RO if you're not actually INSTALLING RO because those configs use a lot of FOR[RealismOverhaul] which signals to Module Manager and every other mod config that RO is installed which means editing a lot of configs by hand. Mostly I'm thinking of parts properly resized/adjusted for a scaled up environment. There are enough stock parts to get you by except in the 8m-10m diameter range + appropriately powered thrusters. SSTU is a big help there and works well with Real Fuels.

[Ker Ball One]

6 hours ago, olegst90 said:

Do both vessels have to be new in order to complete First Docking contract (from Advanced Crewed orbit)? Or can I dock a single new vessel to a previously launched one?

I've done it using the same vessel.  I did it Apollo style where I decoupled, flipped around, and docked.

 

[Zaxxon]

On 7/25/2024 at 7:32 AM, Starwaster said:

There's a mod that rescales Kerbol System by 10x. That brings it up to RSS scale. Kerbin adjusted to have a 130km atmosphere cutoff. I think it's actually called ReScale 10x? If you also want RP1/RO then you'd have to do a custom install without RSS ...

Thanks for the tips.  The old "Rescale" mod (from Galileo88) hasn't been updated since 2017, CKAN says highest supported KSP version is 1.3.1, and the forum page for it has big red letters at top saying it does NOT work with KSP 1.4, so I'm assuming it is long dead and wouldn't work with KSP 1.12?  Anyone know of a solar system rescale mod that still works - and would work with Kerbol/Kerbin solar system rather than using RSS?  I have been trying JNSQ, but having some issues using other mods with it.

I have had some success using JNSQ 10x along with SMURFF.  That plays out well if just using those 2, but haven't had great results trying to use some of the other mods working well with it.  I'd be fine with 10x or with regular sized JNSQ scale (2.7x I think) and then stock-like balanced parts - that balances well and gives the feel of larger bodies and rockets, longer launch accents, etc.  But haven't come up with a full suite of mods yet that work out as well for doing something along the lines of RO/RP1/RSS but use the Kerbal solar system rather than RSS.   I'm not sure I really want ALL of the RO/RP1 stuff, but some level of added challenge and work over stock game is desired.  Personally, I could do without Kerbal Construction Time.  I'm good with the added challenges of RO/RP1, but waiting for rocket and pad build out (and the complexity it adds to project mgmt) might go beyond my patience level. LOL

I do like the failures aspects.  So far my thoughts are: 1. Test Flight has TOO frequent failures no matter how much test flight time you put it.  2. kerbalism has a good setup, but don't like that parts don't progress from less reliable to more reliable the more you get flight experience with them - wish it did that, but on a different curve than TestFlight does.  If TestFlight had a settings option to adjust the curves, that would probably be my mod choice for failures.  I really don't want to have to figure out how to edit all the cfg files to change failure rate vs. test experience curves.

[Starwaster]

@Zaxxon 10xKerbol is the name of what I'm using. Yes, it's old, but it's just a set of configs for Kopernicus which is updated.

This is the thread for it: 

However, it looks like there's an issue with Spacedock: the link from that thread is broken. Use this link instead:
https://spacedock.info/mod/296/10x Kerbol system

[Saturn1234]

Hi, from what mod are the procedural probe cores and procedural avionics? When I isntall procedural parts, I do not see them.

Edited August 10 by Saturn1234

[siimav]

RP-1 itself. You can't get those without having RP-1 + ProcParts/ROTanks installed.