[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Ser]

ferram4,

I've picked up your yesterday's master build dll and now on reentry I have a 1.25 m service bay taking much convective heat right behind a 2.5 m shield (just scaled the standard DRE shield in config). The part's Conv Flux is much greater that the shield's. So the bay quickly turns hot as hell when the shield haven't even started to lose its ablation. Parts behind the bay far away from the shield have Conv flux at 0 (but they must be less protected instead, right?).

Interesting thing is when something is placed in front of the shield, the shield's Conv Flux is constantly 0 (despite it is exposed by 0.5 m each side), but the bay just behind it still gets much heat by convection.

Don't you think that convective heating distribution still needs some revision?

Edited May 18, 2015 by Ser

[ferram4]

@earth: Unlikely, I can't necessarily stop whatever in the stock game causes that kind of a memory leak. Also, this is unlikely to fix landing gear and wings burning off at 150 m/s.

@Ser: My test case was the very same thing with the stock heat shield. This makes me suspect that the actual issue is something with the Deadly Reentry heat shields that breaks voxelization, but that needs to be fixed on the DR side. From all of my tests, heating is now perfectly accurate and things placed behind a 2.5m heat shield are properly protected from aerodynamic heating.

[Hacki]

@Hacki: Voxel updates only occur if something triggers them. Either you have a mod that is constantly sending "HEY, THE SHIP UPDATED GUYZ!" events or you have something that is constantly driving animations; either of those will trigger the update. I do know that Toadicus's TweakableEverything has been causing some issues with that, and he's looking into that, but AFAWCT, it looks like it's something strange on his side. Nothing I can do to fix it.

Ah i see.

Yes, i do in fact have tweakableeverything installed.

I figured out a crude workaround. I increased the minPhysTicksPerUpdate ... now its working fine. No idea what other effects that might have, i'll just set it back to 30 when i launch a vessel.

[Dermeister]

DOes this look right to you guys? those lines? is it suppose to Not follow the body? it seems to me like it thinks something cause drag way out there.... Or is this normal? Also the line goes back down Inside the fuel tank... I mean it could be normal and I could not be understanding what those lines mean but 1 is for Drag and the other is area of resistance correct?

[Svm420]

DOes this look right to you guys? those lines? is it suppose to Not follow the body? it seems to me like it thinks something cause drag way out there.... Or is this normal? Also the line goes back down Inside the fuel tank... I mean it could be normal and I could not be understanding what those lines mean but 1 is for Drag and the other is area of resistance correct? http://i.imgur.com/qKqz6gt.jpg

Nope incorrect. Green is cross sectional area as you travel down the craft from tip to butt. The yellow is how fast the green line is changing. I don't know if you know calculus so that is the simple explanation. The section where the green is in your tank says the craft has the same area along that portion and the yellow line shows it only slowly changing. So you want the green to be smooth and slow and the yellow to be as flat as possible. Your craft is short and stubby therefore higher drag. You want long sleek.

[tetryds]

@Dermeister: take a screenshot with "display debug voxels" active, it's aparently not voxelizing the lower stage properly.

[Dermeister]

@Dermeister: take a screenshot with "display debug voxels" active, it's aparently not voxelizing the lower stage properly.

OK Here it is. SO that means Procedural parts isn't compatible with Far yet?

[kcs123]

If my eyes does not tricks me, top of yelow line only reach first black line of graph. Meaning, graph is highly zoomed and what seems to be high jump in cross section area is actualy realy small.

Critical mach speed is near 0.71 mach - seems normal. Meaning you will get highest drag trough transition from subsonic to supersonic speed at 0.71 mach

[tetryds]

No, that is not normal.

It seems that the lower tank is hollow.

[Dermeister]

No, that is not normal.

It seems that the lower tank is hollow.

That was my feling too that's why I thought it looked weird as though it doesn't think a tank is there.

[Strangelove444]

I can't seem to find the Flight Assistance settings (mostly to change the values of the Dynamic Control Adjustment) - could someone point me to where I can do that in-game? I couldn't find it after updating to post-1.0.

[Bakase]

No, that is not normal.

It seems that the lower tank is hollow.

That was my feling too that's why I thought it looked weird as though it doesn't think a tank is there.

Came across this exact problem with other parts. If I'm not mistaken, it occurs because there's a hole in the bottom of the mesh (but not in the top, which tapers to a point) -- so when FAR sweeps from either end, it reads one end as hollow and the other end as solid.

Thus the issue is not technically with FAR -- which is behaving as expected -- but instead with the part.

[Crzyrndm]

I can't seem to find the Flight Assistance settings (mostly to change the values of the Dynamic Control Adjustment) - could someone point me to where I can do that in-game? I couldn't find it after updating to post-1.0.

Flt Settings => Current Group Settings == Stab Aug => Control System == DCPR

[RyanRising]

So, since there's no 64-bit build for 1.0, should there still be a check for it? Doesn't that seem a little unnecessary?

Okay, okay, I'm SORRY, I like my mods, but I also like FAR. I promise, I won't complain about bugs, I'll reproduce anything and everything in x86... Okay, you're mad. Please don't hurt me.

[Ser]

@Ser: From all of my tests, heating is now perfectly accurate and things placed behind a 2.5m heat shield are properly protected from aerodynamic heating.

Tried the stock heat shield. Yes, it is better and survivable at least but still the service bay right behind the shield receives heat by convection (about 50% of the shield's heat). The next part doesn't.

Don't want to be tedious, just in case that makes sense.

[ratchet freak]

So, since there's no 64-bit build for 1.0, should there still be a check for it? Doesn't that seem a little unnecessary?

Okay, okay, I'm SORRY, I like my mods, but I also like FAR. I promise, I won't complain about bugs, I'll reproduce anything and everything in x86... Okay, you're mad. Please don't hurt me.

there is still the old method of launching 64 bit (grabbing the launcher from unity and renaming it)

and he still doesn't want to get flooded in "OMG I crash on 64 bit" until unity stables up for 64 bit windows

[Kitspace]

Any comments on my airspeed indicators post?

What it shows in game is near to impossible.

Maybe it happens just for me and it would help to reinstall or tweak something?

[Volt]

Hey again with another bug question. Is this FAR or another mod that's causing a FAR problem? I've been building aircraft using B9 procedural control surfaces + wings and Bahamuto's lovely procedural landing gear, and every time I load a craft that uses them, my aircraft is just a cockpit. The debug menu is spammed with this message:

(Filename:  Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARPartGeometry.GeometryPartModule.RebuildAllMeshData () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARPartGeometry.GeometryPartModule.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

I'll provide any more info if you need it.

Edit: Upon further inspection I've just found the exception that started that freak-out:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at EditorLogic.recurseShipList (.Part part, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 shipList) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at EditorLogic.getSortedShipList () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at EditorLogic.get_SortedShipList () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at FerramAerospaceResearch.FARGUI.FAREditorGUI.EditorGUI.ResetEditorEvent (.ShipConstruct construct) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at EventData`1[ShipConstruct].Fire (.ShipConstruct data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KIS.ModuleKISInventory.RefreshMassAndVolume () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KIS.ModuleKISInventory.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part+.MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Looks like I may have a KIS issue?

Edit2: Further testing done. It is KIS, specifically the inventory system. I'll go post this over there.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Volt

[taniwha]

Volt: I have set an PR to ferram that fixes the problem. AFAICT, KIS is doing things right.

[Volt]

Volt: I have set an PR to ferram that fixes the problem. AFAICT, KIS is doing things right.

Awesome, thanks. Looks from the saves like my ships are safe, just refusing to load ingame.

[Kirondoll]

Hello.

I'm building a shuttle and the CoL is moving around when i select a different root part.

(i have screenshoots but for some obscure reason the IMGUR tag is not working)

[ferram4]

@Ser: I'm not able to reproduce that with a 2.5m shield and a 1.25m bay, except at very low Mach numbers where the convective flux should get around the shield. Then again, the heat isn't gonna be that high at those speeds.

@Kitspace: I see what happened. Multiplied by surface density rather than dividing by it. That's the only error there, everything else is correct.

@Volt: Merged taniwha's fix into the dev build, so that shouldn't happen anymore.

@Kirondoll: Yes, that can happen if you pick root parts that are facing in strange ways relative to the main axis of the vehicle. If they're facing in the same direction, nothing will change. There isn't much I can do to fix this, because it quickly falls under, "deliberately trying to break the model" and there's nothing I can do to prevent that.

Edited May 19, 2015 by ferram4

[Volt]

Sorry, I'm terrible at working Github. Would I be able to get this fix immediately? I tried downloading and installing the FAR folder as it stands but it's the same version.

[Kitspace]

Ferram

I guess that is a significant difference.

If you can fix it and it will behave realistically then everything will be fine the problem will be solved.

Sorry if I look impatient or offensive.

Nothing of that sort was intended.

Thank you.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Kitspace

[kcs123]

Sorry, I'm terrible at working Github. Would I be able to get this fix immediately? I tried downloading and installing the FAR folder as it stands but it's the same version.

Use this link to reach proper github page. On the right side you should see "Download ZIP" button.

Once you downloaded it, unpack and use only stuff from Gamedata folder.

Files in other folders are source code files and other documents, you need Visual studio to compile those. I'm not sure, but you may need unity game engine too.But for your purpose, just ignore those.