[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[ratchet freak]

39 minutes ago, funkcanna said:

On to another point, is there any reason why at around 15000 this plane wants to yaw like crazy then blow up?  SAS is not turned on:

 

 

Video: http://tinypic.com/r/11rvdd0/9

Redo the stability derivatives for the altitude and speed you were at. The ones in the screen shot are for surface flight and you were 18km up in the air.

[funkcanna]

1 minute ago, ratchet freak said:

Redo the stability derivatives for the altitude and speed you were at. The ones in the screen shot are for surface flight and you were 18km up in the air.

Oh man, thanks - seems so obvious haha!

[lude]

What other mods could interfere with voxelization?

I assume no voxelization could also lead to situations where you get dynamic pressure and heat from atmosphere but for all other forces it's nan/0? I know someone else had the same bug earlier.

I've installed FAR by hand in my other save game it's working (just started a new one with a bit harder settings) the only thing changed in between was updates to mods.

 

And I just checked, it's still working perfectly in the other save. Perhaps there is something in the new save I can change so FAR works again, don't want to smash into kerbin all the time.

 

-- edit --

FAR settings are the same in both saves, must be something else

ok seems to be related to certain parts that will prevent FAR from calculating a reference area even if a FARmoduled part is on top checking out to which mod they belong

using UbioZWelding stuff (three universal quadcores on top of each other) break the voxelization I think, I probably should post this there as well

Edited April 28, 2016 by lude

[AccidentalDisassembly]

There seems to be something going on with FAR and stock fairings in the editor - exceptions are thrown when placing a fairing base and when then placing each section of the fairing while building it.

Very modded install, could be interaction with something else, etc. etc., I don't know!

Log: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59567837/output_log_FAR_Fairings.txt

 

EDIT: Also, FAR seems to be failing to save default keys for flap increase/decrease - even when manually editing the cfg file, overwrites it.

Edited April 28, 2016 by AccidentalDisassembly

[Akira_R]

9 hours ago, lude said:

What other mods could interfere with voxelization?

I assume no voxelization could also lead to situations where you get dynamic pressure and heat from atmosphere but for all other forces it's nan/0? I know someone else had the same bug earlier.

I've installed FAR by hand in my other save game it's working (just started a new one with a bit harder settings) the only thing changed in between was updates to mods.

 

And I just checked, it's still working perfectly in the other save. Perhaps there is something in the new save I can change so FAR works again, don't want to smash into kerbin all the time.

 

-- edit --

FAR settings are the same in both saves, must be something else

ok seems to be related to certain parts that will prevent FAR from calculating a reference area even if a FARmoduled part is on top checking out to which mod they belong

using UbioZWelding stuff (three universal quadcores on top of each other) break the voxelization I think, I probably should post this there as well

How competent are you with editing .cfg files?

If you are going to be doing any part welding I would highly recommend getting Notepad++ (its free and will make things way easier) and get comfortable with .cfg structure and syntax. The problem with UbioWelding is the cfgs it generates are very "dirty" it tries to include any MODULE nodes from the orginal parts in the new part, this includes FAR specific MODULEs which FAR adds to every part at startup. My guess is this is where your problems are coming from. So I would go into the cfg file and clean out any MODULEs that arent actually needed.

Since the part you are talking about is just 3 quadcores I would compare it against the quadcore cfg and just delete any MODULEs from your part that it doesn't have.

If you have any other questions regarding cfg setup or welding parts PM me and I'll try and help, I've been doing it for a long time and there is very little that I dont know how to do, but I'm not necessarily the best teacher lol.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Akira_R

[lude]

28 minutes ago, Akira_R said:

If you have any other questions regarding cfg setup or welding parts PM me and I'll try and help, I've been doing it for a long time and there is very little that I dont know how to do, but I'm not necessarily the best teacher lol.

Thanks, I assumed similar, that due to it inheritng FARmodule that FAR doesn't add it again, I know that Ubio has advanced options where you can exclude modules from the part being welded, but I swear I don't remember UbioZ having this bug in 1.0.4 or 1.0.5.

Editing the existing parts sounds like a good idea, especially to double check if it's the inherited module breaking it.

I wonder if the other guy who had the "no atmosphere" bug also used a mod where a single part broke voxelization (or whatever happened) and comparing it against normal cores sounds like a really good idea because with all the other module inheritance there could be many bees from now on I'll have a closer look at the advanced settings before welding even tho that kinda kills the neatness of it :E

[Gnoyze]

This has probably been asked before, but where do I go to understand how to read the FAR menus? Like, I have no idea what the lines mean and such...

Also, @funkcanna I would add some vertical strakes so that your plane doesn't yaw so much. Just small vertical wings will provide enough side to side drag to prevent you from yawing (that is if they're aligned right)

[Akira_R]

26 minutes ago, lude said:

Thanks, I assumed similar, that due to it inheritng FARmodule that FAR doesn't add it again, I know that Ubio has advanced options where you can exclude modules from the part being welded, but I swear I don't remember UbioZ having this bug in 1.0.4 or 1.0.5.

Editing the existing parts sounds like a good idea, especially to double check if it's the inherited module breaking it.

I wonder if the other guy who had the "no atmosphere" bug also used a mod where a single part broke voxelization (or whatever happened) and comparing it against normal cores sounds like a really good idea because with all the other module inheritance there could be many bees from now on I'll have a closer look at the advanced settings before welding even tho that kinda kills the neatness of it :E

I wouldnt really call it a bug, its just a limitation of the utility, I know whoevers is maintaing UbioZ now has been trying to add all sorts of features to it to try and make it so welded parts work without any additional editing but I honestly think its a fruitless effort.

I honestly don't know anything about the utilities advanced settings, the most recent update I've used was for 1.0.4 and I only use the utility to get all the models and nodes in the right places, I then pretty much clear out the cfg and write the rest from scratch to fulfill whatever purpose I have for the part and I've never had any issues with my welded parts, usually building custom one part space station modules.

Edited April 28, 2016 by Akira_R

[Torih]

5 minutes ago, Gnoyze said:

This has probably been asked before, but where do I go to understand how to read the FAR menus? Like, I have no idea what the lines mean and such...

Check this out

[Akira_R]

9 minutes ago, Gnoyze said:

This has probably been asked before, but where do I go to understand how to read the FAR menus? Like, I have no idea what the lines mean and such...

Also, @funkcanna I would add some vertical strakes so that your plane doesn't yaw so much. Just small vertical wings will provide enough side to side drag to prevent you from yawing (that is if they're aligned right)

This is for @funkcanna as well, check this thread out

And im pretty sure @tetryds signature at least used to have some good links to some FAR guides (cant see signatures on mobile??)

 

RE your suggestion to use more verticle strakes, he definitely needs more tail, like a lot more, but he also needs to work on smoothing out his cross sectional area (the green line) and just slapping strakes at it is likely to only exacerbate any problems he is already having at high speeds. 

[lude]

this one is really good in my opinion

[ferram4]

@AccidentalDisassembly: As always, I need full reproduction steps with as few mods as possible.  I've never had any issues with the stock fairings.

@lude: Never use part welding.  Ever.  It breaks the stock game, it breaks mods.  Just don't.

And as for Hullcam screwing up voxelization, that's a new one.  I guess I'll need to look into that then.

[AccidentalDisassembly]

7 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

@AccidentalDisassembly: As always, I need full reproduction steps with as few mods as possible.  I've never had any issues with the stock fairings.

@lude: Never use part welding.  Ever.  It breaks the stock game, it breaks mods.  Just don't.

And as for Hullcam screwing up voxelization, that's a new one.  I guess I'll need to look into that then.

Reproduction steps in my case were quite simply: place a part in the VAB, then stick a fairing to it (and/or then placing fairing bits). I tried it just recently on a far less modded install, still happens; trying to narrow down.

EDIT: Happens with stock - only mod was exception detector (which it also happens without).

 

The exact sequence: Place HECS core. Place FLT100 tank below it. Place 1.25m fairing base below that. 

Edited April 28, 2016 by AccidentalDisassembly

[ferram4]

@AccidentalDisassembly: Well, I found it.  Which is strange, because I know I fixed this issue, which means that something changed between the last of the KSP pre-releases and full release that I missed.  Oh well, I'll find it.

And as for Hullcam VDS, I'm not surprised that it's breaking voxelization, because it does absolutely nothing besides throw in-game.  Seems like it was built against the wrong KSP version or something.  Oh well.

[lude]

Ferram4

How about having a look at the two guides and perhaps include it in the first post or some future KSPedia data if that's planned (or was done already)

also have you ever seen KerbalKrashSystem wouldn't that be a nice addin to the existing aerostress feature?

[ferram4]

KSPedia is planned for much later, I need to overhaul the wings first and replace the Stab Deriv readouts with actually solving for the eigenvalues and presenting those in usable ways.

Also, KKS is cool, but given that all of that stuff happens in performance-critical situations, I'm not adding the expense of reflection or adding it as a dependency, so not happening.

[Vegemeister]

On the wing overhaul, you might look at XFLR5 for inspiration.  It doesn't handle mach effects, but it does integrate XFoil polar data with lifting line and vortex lattice methods.  Arbitrary airfoils would probably be overkill, but it would be nice to be able to choose from traditional, laminar flow, reflexed, and supersonic.

[funkcanna]

6 hours ago, Gnoyze said:

This has probably been asked before, but where do I go to understand how to read the FAR menus? Like, I have no idea what the lines mean and such...

Also, @funkcanna I would add some vertical strakes so that your plane doesn't yaw so much. Just small vertical wings will provide enough side to side drag to prevent you from yawing (that is if they're aligned right)

@Gnoyze - check this out https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/wiki

[m4ti140]

OK, I'm not sure what your concept for RCLite is but I don't think the config works the way it should right now. Currently it does not disable itself if RealChute is installed and does exactly the same (replace stock module name for RC) whether it's installed or not, safe for the fact that the patch is run after RealChute's.
The result in game is that when Real Chute is installed there are 2 parachute modules at the same time on each stock parachute, resulting in doubled right click controls both in flight and in editor.

[ferram4]

Alright, so FAR v0.15.6.2 "Kartveli" is up, changelog has the details.  Today's codename is for Alexander Kartveli, who was Republic Aviation's equivalent to Lockheed's Kelly Johnson.  Basically, he was the top guy behind the Jug, the Hog and Super Hog, and Thud.  Which if you don't know those nicknames, you should read up on the P-47, F-84, F-84F, and F-105.

[genbrien]

nvm...

deleted everything again and reinstalled it and it works....

 

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by genbrien

[Ilya]

On 4/27/2016 at 6:29 PM, ferram4 said:

@Ilya: That sounds a lot like a case of "not enough control authority for the TWR" and if the problem only shows up when you have SRBs involved, I'd guess the issue is just that you're outrunning the control authority you have.  I'd suggest reducing the TWR at launch, adding more mass / payload, or adding control fins.  Or make the payload narrower, this is also something that can happen if the payload fairing is too large (read: more than ~1.5 times the diameter of the rest of the rocket) and creates too much body lift as a result.

http://sendvid.com/wgku7t19
Could you tell me what I'm doing wrong here? I really feel like a rocket like this should be able to fly, even without fins. I'm pretty sure that in 1.0.5 FAR it would have worked, too. I never had problems back then. Now it seems that to fly a rocket, I absolutely need to put fins that have control, or to only start my gravity turn over 15km altitude. Note that this happens whether I have a fairing or not, and that the payload isn't particularly heavy.

[Flobilbo]

Hi I downloaded the last version of Ferram and every time I load the game in it's giving me this different shades of green hex tiles over the atmosphere does anyone have any idea on how to fix that . https://imgur.com/YijA07B

 

Edited April 30, 2016 by Flobilbo

[blowfish]

9 minutes ago, Flobilbo said:

Hi I downloaded the last version of Ferram and every time I load the game in it's giving me this different shades of green hex tiles over the atmosphere does anyone have any idea on how to fix that . https://imgur.com/YijA07B

 

Not sure what's causing that but it's definitely not FAR.  What other mods do you have installed?

[Flobilbo]

the seti CTT mods I am replacing them one by one to try to figure out what's wrong nice to know it's not FAR though