[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[eSportWarrior]

I just looked at your mods and i saw that you are a kinda "god" for the KSP Community.

Any chance we see a Patreon Page from you? I like the idea of giving as long as i use the mods, even if its only 2$ a Month.

[SkyKaptn]

On 21.4.2016 at 0:46 PM, blackrack said:

I know it's normal for FAR to cause some FPS loss, however with this fresh 1.1 release the hit seems much much bigger than usual.

I'm also seeing much higher CPU usage compared to stock, this is normally a good thing, but I'm getting 70-90% cpu usage in the space center view with nothing happening. I must also add this doesn't happen the first time you load the game, but once I go in flight the CPU usage jumps up and stays that way when I get back to space center view. Tested with both 32bit and 64bit windows builds with just FAR and scatterer installed, CPU is an i5-2400 @3.1 Ghz, no errors or anything weird in the log.

Just wanted to chime in.. Yeah, my i4790K @4GHz, GTX 980 went down from a steady 60fps (capped) to 1/3 ratio physics time. Sorry no logs atm, got a sprained wrist today and cannot reproduce.

[ferram4]

@blackrack, @SkyKaptn: If you guys want to try, I'd suggest grabbing the dev build and seeing if that fixes the issue.  It might be a day or two before that gets released as a bugfix so I have some time to test and confirm that it works as well as get another issue squared away.

[blackrack]

32 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

@blackrack, @SkyKaptn: If you guys want to try, I'd suggest grabbing the dev build and seeing if that fixes the issue.  It might be a day or two before that gets released as a bugfix so I have some time to test and confirm that it works as well as get another issue squared away.

I will try it as soon as I can, thanks a lot.

[atomontage]

Hello. Thank you for this great mod @ferram4 !

However I think I found a sorta bug either in FAR or in ModularFlightIntegrator (since its just a dependancy I don't think I can figure it out by myself).

Every time I perform an EVA I get massive FPS drop (like in half) plus serious stuttering. This persists after I board the ship back. Also it 'stacks': every time I do an EVA it begins to stutter and drop FPS much more. Exiting to the main menu doesn't help - even there it stutters as hell. Only restarting the game helps.

Test conditions: MK1 capsule with a kerbanaut in it sitting on the launchpad. Then EVA a few times. After three times the game is completely unplayable.

KSP Version: 1.1.0.1230 x64 @ Windows 7 (lastest to this date)

Mods installed:
FAR Version: 0.15.6.0 (lastest to this date)
MFI Version: 1.1.3 (bundled with FAR)
MM Version: 2.6.22 (bundled with FAR)

Also I have tried to completely reinstall FAR along with MFI and MM just in case I have screwed something up.

The first time I encountered this bug was on low kerbin orbit. Then I started removing mods to find the one that causes this. (But the final tests were done sitting on the launchpad.)

The KSP.log: http://pastebin.com/U3uRF3rw

Thanks.

Edited April 23, 2016 by atomontage
fixed link

[ferram4]

That sounds exactly like what Blackrack was complaining about.  Try the dev build.

[atomontage]

11 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

That sounds exactly like what Blackrack was complaining about.  Try the dev build.

Yeah I've just tested the dev build. I can confirm the bug is fixed. Yay! Thank you!

Two hours of experimenting are in vain... meh. Lol.

[Sebi99p]

Hey, FAR seems to make terminal velocity infinite for me ... no idea why ... probably an interaction with another mod i`m using (which are a lot)

Spoiler

(Semi)Saturatable Reaction Wheels (SemiSaturatableRW 1.10.3.0)
[x] Science! (xScience 4.15)
6 Crew Science Lab (SixCrewScienceLab 1.1)
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blackheart612's KW Procedural Fairings (ProceduralFairings-Textures-KW 0)
blackheart612's KW Procedural Fairings KSLO (ProceduralFairings-Textures-KSLO 0)
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blackheart612's Procedural Part Textures (ProceduralParts-Textures-SCCKSCS 1)
CapCom - Mission Control On The Go (CapCom 2.1)
Chatterer (Chatterer 0.9.8)
Colorful Fuel Lines (ColorfulFuelLines 0.3.2)
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I`m also using KAC. I know it`s not imperative you fix this issue ... just throwing it out there  just in case

[ferram4]

Far, far more important than what mods you're using is reliable and complete reproduction steps.  If those involve doing some complicated thing, then you might have found an actual bug and I'd like to know.  If they don't, then you probably have an install error.

[ferram4]

Alright, so FAR v0.15.6.1 "von Kármán" is out, fixing a critical CPU usage bug that most of you have been getting hit with and a pair of RealChuteLite related bugs thanks to stupid_chris.

Today's codename honors Theodore von Kármán, who is known for his work in supersonic aerodynamics and turbulence.  Von Kármán was rather prolific, contributing many theories and models to aerodynamics as well as other fields.  Here in KSP we primarily know him for the concept of the Kármán line.

[TheCaconym]

I had the exact same issue: CPU went crazy once I did an EVA, FAR spamming the logs with "Updating vessel voxel" messages. Also, during reentry on the same vessel, I had basically no drag and the vessel ended up overheating.

I can confirm that 0.15.6.1 fixes the issue for me as well. Thanks a lot !

[Ser]

ferram4, This RL bird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_Phenom_100#Specifications has weight 4,750 kg and wingspan 12.3m. And stall speed of 108 knots.

The one posted below has weight 4700kg, wingspan 17.2m and the stall speed of a minimum 70 m/s (140 knots), that is 1.5 times greater than the above. Isn't wing lift too low?

Spoiler

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Ser

[Svm420]

1 hour ago, Ser said:

ferram4, This RL bird https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer_Phenom_100#Specifications has weight 4,750 kg and wingspan 12.3m. And stall speed of 108 knots.

The one posted below has weight 4700kg, wingspan 17.2m and the stall speed of a minimum 70 m/s (140 knots), that is 1.5 times greater than the above. Isn't wing lift too low?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You have still quite some differences with that plane, so I don't see why you think you should get the same stats... One big difference maybe the fact we lack the ground effect which would reduce takeoff speed closer to RL. Other than that unless you have actual data Ferram can act on he isn't going to change anything just because you think your plane should perform differently based on a poor comparison to a RL plane.

[Sebi99p]

21 hours ago, ferram4 said:

Far, far more important than what mods you're using is reliable and complete reproduction steps.  If those involve doing some complicated thing, then you might have found an actual bug and I'd like to know.  If they don't, then you probably have an install error.

I know ... but there are no reproduction steps ... every time i use a craft i get KER says terminal velocity = infinite ... and i don`t get proper lift with planes , or chutes do nothing  ... and i really wanna use FAR as i love your mod ... but 

[lude]

17 minutes ago, Sebi99p said:

I know ... but there are no reproduction steps ... every time i use a craft i get KER says terminal velocity = infinite ... and i don`t get proper lift with planes , or chutes do nothing  ... and i really wanna use FAR as i love your mod ... but 

I have a similar problem, trying to track it down, only appeared after starting a new save but I think it's not caused by FAR but by an incompability also the chute and too little lift things are probably two different things.

The chutes should be fixed in the most recent build but I haven't tested yet, realchutes worked well for me as well as those patched even before the most recent version.

Currently starting KSP for another test.

 

In my last stable mod conf. FAR worked as intended.

 

-- edit -- 

one of my test crafts has very similar aerodynamic qualities to yours, in a normal pull up maneuver it'd be getting increasingly negative lift the only thing to change that was reversing the pitch on the back elevons which lead to an absolutely unflyable  craft since the back was lifted while the front was lowered

Edited April 24, 2016 by lude

[Sebi99p]

1 minute ago, lude said:

I have a similar problem, trying to track it down, only appeared after starting a new save but I think it's not caused by FAR but by an incompability also the chute and too little lift things are probably two different things.

The chutes should be fixed in the most recent build but I haven't tested yet, realchutes worked well for me as well as those patched even before the most recent version.

Currently starting KSP for another test.

 

In my last stable mod conf. FAR worked as intended.

I know chutes and lift are different things. I`m just saying it affects both, and with terminal velocity being infinite it`s kinda like there is no atmo, which is awkward.

I was using the chutes from roverdude`s sounding rockets mod at the time.

[lude]

Just now, Sebi99p said:

I know chutes and lift are different things. I`m just saying it affects both, and with terminal velocity being infinite it`s kinda like there is no atmo, which is awkward.

I was using the chutes from roverdude`s sounding rockets mod at the time.

I'm not saying "they are different things" like an apple and an orange are, I'm saying they're perhaps two different kind of bugs unrelated to each other just happening at the same time

[Sebi99p]

2 minutes ago, lude said:

I'm not saying "they are different things" like an apple and an orange are, I'm saying they're perhaps two different kind of bugs unrelated to each other just happening at the same time

I doubt that, the chute was deployed and all , but it had no effect, like there was no atmo. Similarly i got no lift , like there was no atmo.

[Ser]

2 hours ago, Svm420 said:

You have still quite some differences with that plane, so I don't see why you think you should get the same stats... One big difference maybe the fact we lack the ground effect which would reduce takeoff speed closer to RL. Other than that unless you have actual data Ferram can act on he isn't going to change anything just because you think your plane should perform differently based on a poor comparison to a RL plane.

Do you think it's possible to design an aircraft having takeoff weight of 4500 kg and wingspan of 12.5m Embraer-like wings that would be able to land at 55 m/s with FAR? Have you an example?

Edited April 24, 2016 by Ser

[Svm420]

52 minutes ago, Ser said:

Do you think it's possible to design an aircraft having takeoff weight of 4500 kg and wingspan of 12.5m Embraer-like wings that would be able to land at 55 m/s with FAR? Have you an example?

Did you even test what AoA was required for flight at 50-60m/s? You don't even have a tail! How do you think your craft is that plane?  Your length is off, your wing area is wrong and your wingspan is wrong as well. You also don't have or didn't activate the flaps most planes, including the real one you are comparing against, use on take off. So stop presenting your "data" as showing incorrectness. Your comparison is wrong and misleading.

[ferram4]

@Ser: I know for a fact that wing lift is too high at any angle of attack right now; that's because the wing interactions that you have going on are almost certainly going to result in more lift on that middle wing than should be there.  The problems with your plane are at least four-fold: 1) you lack a horizontal tail to provide pitch authority.  2) you lack takeoff flaps on the design, and 3) your CoM is WAY forward of where the CoM on the Phantom would be, since the cockpits in KSP are extremely heavy for so no good reason.  4) your wings have no angle of incidence built into them, so the plane needs to rotate more to take off.  While I can't be certain because you've hidden the location of the main gear, I suspect a fifth problem: the main gear is too far behind the CoM to allow for proper rotation.

There are a lot of problems there that make your design incomparable to the Phenom.

Edited April 24, 2016 by ferram4

[Ser]

1 hour ago, Svm420 said:

So stop presenting your "data" as showing incorrectness. Your comparison is wrong and misleading.

Who shows incorrectness? I am just asking a question.

1 hour ago, ferram4 said:

@Ser: I know for a fact that wing lift is too high at any angle of attack right now; that's because the wing interactions that you have going on are almost certainly going to result in more lift on that middle wing than should be there.  The problems with your plane are at least four-fold: 1) you lack a horizontal tail to provide pitch authority.  2) you lack takeoff flaps on the design, and 3) your CoM is WAY forward of where the CoM on the Phantom would be, since the cockpits in KSP are extremely heavy for so no good reason.  4) your wings have no angle of incidence built into them, so the plane needs to rotate more to take off.  While I can't be certain because you've hidden the location of the main gear, I suspect a fifth problem: the main gear is too far behind the CoM to allow for proper rotation.

There are a lot of problems there that make your design incomparable to the Phenom.

That's the answer, thanks.

But you understood me wrong, I'm talking about stall speed which depends on major lift, right? And I'm talking about that mostly relative to landing, not takeoff, because the high landing speed (regardless how low the vertical component is) makes 1.1's landing gear just blow up on touchdown. So, 1) What could the pitch authority do about the stall speed? 3) How CoM position could affect the stall speed? I suppose the major factor that contributes to stall is the lift provided at a certain velocity. My one stalls too early compared to Phenom which has shorter wings, that's why I suspect the lack of lift. And the missing flaps, partly.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Ser

[ferram4]

Stall speed (actual stall speed, and using equivalent airspeed to remove density effects) depends only plane mass and max lift.  However, if your design has too little pitch authority it will not even be capable of stalling; it will stop pitching up long before the wings reach their critical angle of attack, and from what I can tell, that design isn't going to stall, it simply lacks the pitch authority to reach the stall AoA anyway.  Then the CoM location is a factor because a further forward CoM requires more negative lift from the elevator to keep the plane's nose up high enough, which will hurt your max lift.

Oh, and there's another two problems.  No plane ever lands at max takeoff weight.  Most planes don't even have gear designed to land at max takeoff weight.  They fly around and burn off fuel first because landing at max takeoff weight is dangerous.  The other problem is that the fixed gear are completely borked; use the retractable ones instead, I've landed on the small retractable ones at 120 m/s with no problem.

[Ser]

28 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

Oh, and there's another two problems.  No plane ever lands at max takeoff weight.  Most planes don't even have gear designed to land at max takeoff weight.  They fly around and burn off fuel first because landing at max takeoff weight is dangerous.  The other problem is that the fixed gear are completely borked; use the retractable ones instead, I've landed on the small retractable ones at 120 m/s with no problem.

Ok, I've got it. I don't land at takeoff weight and was speaking of it just as of a mass characteristic to compare. Anyway it's not normal to land at 120 m/s with such a light design as mine. Will look to improve it.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Ser

[cptcaptain]

I for the first time installed FAR after 1.1 (64x) came out and want to thank you for this great add-on. I only wish I´d used it earlier. I skimmed the thread and did a google but could not find anything related to my question so pardon me if that`s something known.

I made a few SSTO to get familiar with FAR and got them to orbit and de-orbit pretty easily.

Yet after adding something (reproducible with a normal docking port) in the cargo bay, my SSTO hardly lifts off and suddenly it appears very tail-heavy

Checking back into the SPH it appears the CoL is now way up in front of the CoM just in front of the docking port.

Mods I use and that are not cosmetic like EVE or PlanetShine are MK2 Expansion, PilotAssistant and the NearFuture packs (the latter I did not use in the quick sample craft in the pictures).

View post on imgur.com

 

I do use the newest version of FAR and it is installed correctly. That`s the easiest part I guess.

Any ideas?

Edited April 25, 2016 by cptcaptain
was a mess