[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[ferram4]

@loleo: I am unable to reproduce the issue.  Debris has proper aerodynamics for me.  I suspect that you have either installed FAR wrong or have some mod interfering with its voxelization.  If it's the latter, you need to isolate that one so I can fix it.

@Blasty McBlastblast: Well, that's good news at least.

@Combatsmithen: That looks like the stock wheels being derpy to me.  Don't use those wheels at all, they're broken beyond usability.  Start using landing gear once you get to the retractable ones.

[Combatsmithen]

1 hour ago, ferram4 said:

@loleo: I am unable to reproduce the issue.  Debris has proper aerodynamics for me.  I suspect that you have either installed FAR wrong or have some mod interfering with its voxelization.  If it's the latter, you need to isolate that one so I can fix it.

@Blasty McBlastblast: Well, that's good news at least.

@Combatsmithen: That looks like the stock wheels being derpy to me.  Don't use those wheels at all, they're broken beyond usability.  Start using landing gear once you get to the retractable ones.

 

Ok. I have the retractable ones, ill try those later

[stk2008]

Hmm im getting this error as soon as I get to main menu

 

Incorrect FAR installation.

I have just updated a few mods one of them has got to have conflictedwith it.

I just reinstalled FAR fresh install and still get it

error says

 

Incorrect path

Gamedata/ksp-avc/ferramaerospaceresources/plugins/ferramaerospacereasearch.dll

Edited May 20, 2016 by stk2008

[ferram4]

That means that you installed FAR incorrectly.  Because you didn't install it according to directions.  FAR should not be in a "ksp-avc" folder and needs to be installed correctly or there is a good chance that it won't work right.  Install it normally rather than doing clever things.

[stk2008]

I know its not meant to be in AVC folder nor have I put it there.

I have been using FAR for about a month now and all of a sudden its started spitting this error at me.

Any ways I have fixed the issue now I deleted AVC and reinstalled AVC all seems fine now

no idea what happend.

Thanks for the fast reply though mate and thanks for the awesome mod I cant fly with out it I love the enhanced realism

 

EDIT

 

re reading the first part of my reply it seems to read in a bit of an adrupt way please note this was not my intention I am typeing fast and trying to sort the kids out at the same time LOL.

Im not that sort of person so ignore if its reading adrupt or rude etc

Edited May 20, 2016 by stk2008

[Jacke]

21 minutes ago, stk2008 said:

Hmm im getting this error as soon as I get to main menu

Quote

Incorrect FAR installation.

I have just updated a few mods one of them has got to have conflicted with it.

I just reinstalled FAR fresh install and still get it, error says

Quote

Incorrect path

Gamedata/ksp-avc/ferramaerospaceresources/plugins/ferramaerospacereasearch.dll

 

A clearer description with more details would help (screenshot, follow the troubleshooting steps here).

At a minimum, what is in the directory "GameData/KSP-AVC/" ?  Mine contains a bunch of files all with "KSP-AVC" in their names, as well as a "Textures" subdirctory.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Jacke

[stk2008]

hey Jacke thanks for replying

I have sorted it now I deleted AVC folder and reinstalled AVC.

I have no idea what happend maybe when i was dragging mods in etc as I do it manually i must have by mistake done some thing DOH

[softweir]

2 hours ago, stk2008 said:

hey Jacke thanks for replying

I have sorted it now I deleted AVC folder and reinstalled AVC.

I have no idea what happend maybe when i was dragging mods in etc as I do it manually i must have by mistake done some thing DOH

Probably dropped FAR on the AVC folder by mistake, instead of on empty space! I do that sort of thing often enough. 

[stk2008]

Yep must have been the problem LOL DOH

[Combatsmithen]

@ferram4 Yep, the landing gear was derpy. I now have a supersonic X-1 style craft in RO!  Thats how far I have progressed since switching landing gear! DERPY LANDING GEAR CAN HOLD ME BACK NO MORE!

[Kram45]

Hi guys, just added far into the game and I see that my PE is dropping by about 1 meter every 3 seconds and I'm just wondering if this is intentional or if it is a stock bug?

[steve_v]

32 minutes ago, Kram45 said:

Hi guys, just added far into the game and I see that my PE is dropping by about 1 meter every 3 seconds and I'm just wondering if this is intentional or if it is a stock bug?

Probably #9619.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@ferram4 Back again, to ask some more questions,    Through blind luck once again I've managed to get another plugin working,  this time it's a lightweight version of VNG, ( the license allows for this) only the parts relating to chutes, mainly with the intention of rolling the SM chutes and it together into one half decent mod. I've run into similar issues getting FAR to play nice with the VNGr chutes,

Before i throw all my toys out of the pram again I just want to make sure that the MM patch I've created is doing what it's supposed to do. i  copied the patch in FAR changing the module names to suit the parachute module names in the new vng dll.

I've been informed several times now that VNG used to work with FAR without issues, so the chance of an error on my part is high.

Cheers

Spoiler

//If RealChute is installed, run after it
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]]:NEEDS[RealChute]:AFTER[RealChute]
{
        //Transform ModuleKerbachute into RealChute (removing ModuleKerbachute)
        @MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]
        {
                @name = RealChuteFAR
        }
 
    //Removes stock sounds
    !sound_parachute_open
    !sound_parachute_single

        //Effects
        EFFECTS
        {
                rcpredeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_open
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcdeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_single
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rccut
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcrepack
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
        }
}

//If RealChute isn't installed, run on every part
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]]:NEEDS[!RealChute]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
        //Transform ModuleKerbachute into RealChute (removing ModuleKerbachute)
        @MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]
        {
                @name = RealChuteFAR
        }
 
    //Removes stock sounds
    !sound_parachute_open
    !sound_parachute_single

        //Effects
        EFFECTS
        {
                rcpredeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_open
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcdeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_single
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rccut
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcrepack
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
        }
}

/////////////////Will there be a problem here ? as the modules are nested as written as below in the CFG for the eject////////////////

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKrEjectPilot
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleKerbachute
            //how much drag it has when fully deployed
            deployedDrag = 90
            //minimum air pressure for deployment
            minAirPressureToOpen = 0.01
            //x and y scale for when in semi mode... so the actual parachute area in semi mode is semiDeployedFraction^2
            semiDeployedFraction = 0.0025
            //thought it whould be nice if the chute was higher in semi mode
            semiDeployedHeight = 1.25
            //time in seconds it takes to deploy, or to go from semi to full mode
            deployTime = 0.33
        }
    }

///////////////////And for the parachute box /////////////////////////////////////////////////

MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKrEquipKerbal
        //amount of parachutes
        count = 5
        //max equip distance
        range = 1
        //somewhat self-explainatory
        guiName = Equip Parachute
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleKerbachute
            //how much drag it has when fully deployed
            deployedDrag = 90
            //minimum air pressure for deployment
            minAirPressureToOpen = 0.01
            //x and y scale for when in semi mode... so the actual parachute area in semi mode is semiDeployedFraction^2
            semiDeployedFraction = 0.25
            //thought it whould be nice if the chute was higher in semi mode
            semiDeployedHeight = 1.25
            //time in seconds it takes to deploy, or to go from semi to full mode
            deployTime =0.33
        }
    }

 

Edited May 20, 2016 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

[larkvi]

I have been using FAR exclusively in KSP almost since I started, and can make stable planes and SSTOs regularly, but I have never really learned how to make flaps work for me--I have read the example design process, but are there more detailed guidelines for how much flaps to use  and how / when to use them in flight? I am a generally terrible (keyboard) lander, so I am investigating ways to make things land at lower speeds and with fewer parts lost.

And, since we can never say it enough, many thanks to Ferram for maintaining this over so many iterations and conflicting mods.

[Chris97b]

2 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

@ferram4 Back again, to ask some more questions,    Through blind luck once again I've managed to get another plugin working,  this time it's a lightweight version of VNG, ( the license allows for this) only the parts relating to chutes, mainly with the intention of rolling the SM chutes and it together into one half decent mod. I've run into similar issues getting FAR to play nice with the VNGr chutes,

Before i throw all my toys out of the pram again I just want to make sure that the MM patch I've created is doing what it's supposed to do. i  copied the patch in FAR changing the module names to suit the parachute module names in the new vng dll.

I've been informed several times now that VNG used to work with FAR without issues, so the chance of an error on my part is high.

Cheers

  Hide contents

//If RealChute is installed, run after it
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]]:NEEDS[RealChute]:AFTER[RealChute]
{
        //Transform ModuleKerbachute into RealChute (removing ModuleKerbachute)
        @MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]
        {
                @name = RealChuteFAR
        }
 
    //Removes stock sounds
    !sound_parachute_open
    !sound_parachute_single

        //Effects
        EFFECTS
        {
                rcpredeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_open
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcdeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_single
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rccut
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcrepack
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
        }
}

//If RealChute isn't installed, run on every part
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]]:NEEDS[!RealChute]:FOR[FerramAerospaceResearch]
{
        //Transform ModuleKerbachute into RealChute (removing ModuleKerbachute)
        @MODULE[ModuleKerbachute]
        {
                @name = RealChuteFAR
        }
 
    //Removes stock sounds
    !sound_parachute_open
    !sound_parachute_single

        //Effects
        EFFECTS
        {
                rcpredeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_open
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcdeploy
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = sound_parachute_single
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rccut
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_cut
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
 
                rcrepack
                {
                        AUDIO
                        {
                                channel = Ship
                                clip = FerramAerospaceResearch/RealChuteLite/Sounds/sound_parachute_repack
                                volume = 1
                        }
                }
        }
}

/////////////////Will there be a problem here ? as the modules are nested as written as below in the CFG for the eject////////////////

    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKrEjectPilot
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleKerbachute
            //how much drag it has when fully deployed
            deployedDrag = 90
            //minimum air pressure for deployment
            minAirPressureToOpen = 0.01
            //x and y scale for when in semi mode... so the actual parachute area in semi mode is semiDeployedFraction^2
            semiDeployedFraction = 0.0025
            //thought it whould be nice if the chute was higher in semi mode
            semiDeployedHeight = 1.25
            //time in seconds it takes to deploy, or to go from semi to full mode
            deployTime = 0.33
        }
    }

///////////////////And for the parachute box /////////////////////////////////////////////////

MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleKrEquipKerbal
        //amount of parachutes
        count = 5
        //max equip distance
        range = 1
        //somewhat self-explainatory
        guiName = Equip Parachute
        MODULE
        {
            name = ModuleKerbachute
            //how much drag it has when fully deployed
            deployedDrag = 90
            //minimum air pressure for deployment
            minAirPressureToOpen = 0.01
            //x and y scale for when in semi mode... so the actual parachute area in semi mode is semiDeployedFraction^2
            semiDeployedFraction = 0.25
            //thought it whould be nice if the chute was higher in semi mode
            semiDeployedHeight = 1.25
            //time in seconds it takes to deploy, or to go from semi to full mode
            deployTime =0.33
        }
    }

 

Well I'm not certain about the chute issues, but I can tell you that using FOR[Modname] is generally a bad idea unless you are the mod author/maintainer. Reason being, that tells MM that you are creating [Modname] which would cause all sorts of issues if that runs when FAR isn't installed. Just my $0.02

[ferram4]

@SpannerMonkey(smce): First, like Chris97b said, don't use FOR.  Use either BEFORE or AFTER.

So that will work so long as your ModuleKerbachute is on a separate part that is "carried" (by being attached with a joint like any other part) to a Kerbal.  If it isn't, I suspect it won't do anything.

The latter modules I don't know anything about.  The inner workings of other mods is not something I normally know about.  If I do know about it and I haven't contributed to it, that's usually a bad sign.

[Vegetal]

Hey ferram, saw your request for that ugly plane I posted on a screenshot. Nevermind that man, the plane was awful, and if you still want to reproduce that bug, just install those procedural wings and try.

But I guess that's unnecessary now anyway...

[Kram45]

11 hours ago, steve_v said:

Probably #9619.

Thanks

[Benmush]

On 5/18/2016 at 1:02 AM, ferram4 said:

@Benmush: The fairing is made up of 4 parts, right?  And there are 4 drag/lift arrows attached.  So that means that each of those arrows accounts for 1/4 the drag o the fairing and has nothing to do whatsoever with attach nodes.  Internally that's probably an issue, but if that problem doesn't show up with the latest FAR dev build then that has already been fixed.  It's just waiting on confirmation that that doesn't happen anymore so that I can actually make a stable release.

@tetryds: No, this is correct.  Please don't repeat incorrect information.

Hey ferram4, 

Yep 4 parts on this craft. I can move where the drag points occur as I explained on PF forums...

"Below is an example of what I mean regarding the nodes being affected by aerodynamics. The fairing base is the flat one with 4 connection nodes, updating to more nodes adds more of these glitches.

At each "node_stack_connect" point the oddity occurs. If I update the "Side1.cfg" or "Side2.cfg" line:

From "node_stack_connect = 0, 0.5, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0"

TO "node_stack_connect = 0, 1, 0, 0, -1, 0, 0" the problems jumps vertically.

(Thought I could be cheeky and force it inside the fairing, however it was still causing drag in FAR)"

The dll release from a couple of hours ago has stopped the actual drag from occurring, although it is still graphically modeled in aerodynamic overlay, with long red drag lines (no biggie)

Will perform a more extensive test later today after completing all my daddy duties. 

[ferram4]

@Benmush: Stop.  Seriously, absolutely none of the builds since FAR v0.15.0 have ever applied drag based on AttachNodes.  I keep telling you this, but you refuse to believe it.

Every single part gets a drag and lift vector.  The drag and lift vector is displayed at the part origin.  This happens in both stock and with FAR.  The location of the drag and lift vector simply indicates the drag and lift applied to that part.  It has nothing to do with the attach node.  You could use code to remove the attach node, keep the part attached via joints, and those vectors would still appear in the same location because that is the origin of the fairing side objects.  They would still have the same magnitude because they're based on the forces across the entire fairing part.

Stop wasting everyone's time chasing after windmills.  All you're going to do is convince people that there are bugs where there aren't and waste my time further / suppress bug reports on real issues because people think that it's this non-existent bug you keep insisting is there.

[Benmush]

2 hours ago, ferram4 said:

@Benmush: Stop.  Seriously, absolutely none of the builds since FAR v0.15.0 have ever applied drag based on AttachNodes.  I keep telling you this, but you refuse to believe it.

Every single part gets a drag and lift vector.  The drag and lift vector is displayed at the part origin.  This happens in both stock and with FAR.  The location of the drag and lift vector simply indicates the drag and lift applied to that part.  It has nothing to do with the attach node.  You could use code to remove the attach node, keep the part attached via joints, and those vectors would still appear in the same location because that is the origin of the fairing side objects.  They would still have the same magnitude because they're based on the forces across the entire fairing part.

Stop wasting everyone's time chasing after windmills.  All you're going to do is convince people that there are bugs where there aren't and waste my time further / suppress bug reports on real issues because people think that it's this non-existent bug you keep insisting is there.

Sorry you feel you are wasting your time as I very much appreciate your in-depth answers. 

Just interested in understanding this fully and I think, going into some detail, actually helps the less experienced users of your mod.

The forum is for discussion, discovery and sharing ideas, the Issue Report section on Github should be the place where real identified bugs are raised, no?

Thanks for your continued efforts with this mod, feel free to delete my ramblings if you feel they are of no merit.

 

 

[cantab]

As I see it the short answer: Don't trust the aero visualization. It's been known to show incorrect information in stock KSP, never mind FAR. And to be frank I find it of limited usefulness anyway.

[Kitspace]

Is there an example of a plane design that is properly controllable in normal flight yet capable of entering a spin?

Obviously speaking of KSP-FAR

Thank you

[cantab]

Seemed to work in this. Flew nicely, albeit twitchy, normally, then went wild when I took it down to stall speed. Although I don't really know how to recognise a spin.

I find a fair few of my FAR aircraft are hard to stall simply because they lack pitch authority, and if you can't stall her you can't spin her. No such problems with the above design.

[AdmiralTigerclaw]

@ferram4 

Are the following log entries produced by FAR during vessel construction?

[LOG 18:48:15.883] Updating Untitled Space Craft
[LOG 18:48:16.027] Voxelization Time (ms): 143
[LOG 18:48:16.030] Std dev for smoothing: 3 voxel total vol: 0.510255519806125 filled vol: 0.276547116140741

[LOG 18:48:32.497] deleting part US.1P110.Wedge.Fuelcell
[LOG 18:48:39.702] US.1C15.Wedge.Hexacore added to ship - part count: 5
[LOG 18:48:39.761] Updating Untitled Space Craft
[LOG 18:48:39.772] Updating Untitled Space Craft
[LOG 18:48:39.911] Voxelization Time (ms): 138
[LOG 18:48:39.914] Std dev for smoothing: 3 voxel total vol: 1.49574380793044 filled vol: 0.667180606837903

[LOG 18:48:51.678] Updating Untitled Space Craft
[LOG 18:48:51.693] Updating Untitled Space Craft
[LOG 18:48:51.847] Std dev for smoothing: 3 voxel total vol: 0.510255519806125 filled vol: 0.276547116140741

[LOG 18:48:51.879] Voxelization Time (ms): 185
[LOG 18:48:52.741] deleting part US.1C15.Wedge.Hexacore
[LOG 18:48:59.896] deleting part reserveBatteryPack
[LOG 18:49:02.175] batteryBankMini added to ship - part count: 5
[LOG 18:49:02.231] Updating Untitled Space Craft
[LOG 18:49:02.286] Updating Untitled Space Craft

 

If so, I may have a really hard to trace CTD issue.