[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Van Disaster]

On 05/12/2015, 08:58:44, gilflo said:

What is the purpose of the tabs "AOA%" and "Brake rudder" in the settings of standard control?

Brake rudders let you build these:

They just tie airbrakes to the yaw controller. TBH not found any real practical use - yaw stability by using spoilers is not a great idea for orbit-bound spaceplanes even if it works rather well on the way back - but it's nice to have.

[tetryds]

@capi3101: Ok, I understand that you are having reentry problems.
But what exactly do you mean by " And when I opened the doors, this happened: "?
Everything seems normal to me, the voxelization behaves as expected, and when the bays open it's hollow but when it's closed the interior is ignored.
Your problem is that you are flipping?
The closed bay under the pod is an unstable setup, you need more control to keep it straight, try to use the pilot SAS to hold retrograde relative to ground surface during reentry.

[ferram4]

Basically what he's saying is that by opening the doors he was able to get enough extra drag on the vehicle to slow it down so it didn't disintegrate.  That's to be expected, KSP is absurdly gentle in terms of its aerodynamic heating.  I don't see any voxelization bugs, and there never was a voxelization bug with the service bays to begin with.

[Svm420]

Am i the only one having issues with flaps still on the latest FAR. The graphs and calculations have no changes when toggling flaps to any of the 4 states. The flaps themselves never move when switching between the settings. They work fine in flight just can't get aero analysis to use them though. Will provide logs/MM.cache if desired, just thought I'd ask first to see if it's only me.

[Van Disaster]

5 hours ago, Svm420 said:

Am i the only one having issues with flaps still on the latest FAR. The graphs and calculations have no changes when toggling flaps to any of the 4 states. The flaps themselves never move when switching between the settings. They work fine in flight just can't get aero analysis to use them though. Will provide logs/MM.cache if desired, just thought I'd ask first to see if it's only me.

Ad-hoc testing in what's passing for a main install says you're not alone - haven't tried a clean install yet. I do remember ferram saying it was fixed, though.

[capi3101]

22 hours ago, tetryds said:

Your problem is that you are flipping?
The closed bay under the pod is an unstable setup, you need more control to keep it straight, try to use the pilot SAS to hold retrograde relative to ground surface during reentry.

Yes, that's what was happening with that craft - it was flipping out on re-entry when the doors were shut but I could recover it safely by opening the doors. I will give the pilot SAS a try the next time I build a craft with a service bay. Thanks; glad to know it wasn't a bug, just craptastic design.

Probably also explains what's going on with the Baywatch craft, the one that's not slowing down fast enough to deploy chutes safely - there's not enough drag being generated.

15 hours ago, ferram4 said:

I don't see any voxelization bugs, and there never was a voxelization bug with the service bays to begin with.

I thought there was one a few versions back. Maybe what I'm remembered was folks saying there was one and it turns out they was wrong. I did write that post while seriously sleep-deprived.

In any case, thanks for y'all's help; sorry if I wasted any of y'all's time but glad it wasn't a problem with FAR.

[tetryds]

1 hour ago, capi3101 said:

In any case, thanks for y'all's help; sorry if I wasted any of y'all's time but glad it wasn't a problem with FAR.

Don't worry about it.
It's hardly ever a problem with FAR, it's one of the most known mods out there, most of bugs are squished as soon as they appear.
That is why so much is requested from bug reports, most of the time it's an user fault or some other mod, and since bugfixing is taken very seriously it's unfeasible to try to figure out what a person assumes to be a bug, realize if it is actually a FAR bug and then fix it.

[Van Disaster]

Anyone else having issues with b9pW based deltas? that's two craft I've had now which show green across the board/stable graphs, and backflip out of control off the runway. Another two are just fine though & nothing in the log so I don't even know where to start atm, so looking for any other anecdotal evidence first.

Example:

behaves like I'd imagine it would if the outer wing panels are missing - can't keep the nose down.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Van Disaster

[tetryds]

@Van Disaster Your COL has an arrow, your install is messed up.

[Van Disaster]

30 minutes ago, tetryds said:

@Van Disaster Your COL has an arrow, your install is messed up.

Ugh so it does. OK, thanks for pointing that out, at least that's a starting place.

[blowfish]

@Van Disaster you might also want to check that it is voxelizing correctly once FAR is installed correctly.  Many of bac9's new parts have non-solid colliders, which is fine for Unity physics because they're marked as convex, but FAR only sees the raw mesh data.  They might need a patch to set forceUseMeshes = true in FAR's GeometryPartModule.

[Marstiphal]

Hey, not sure if this is going to be helpful or if anyone else is still having the issue with acceleration through an atmosphere on reentry rather than deceleration. This is happening to me when I go into IVA during the reentry process - the exact same craft works as intended when used without IVA

 

output log

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwOBQBDhORtMYnNvRUFtYUNiakE

 

 

 

 

 

[Van Disaster]

1 hour ago, blowfish said:

@Van Disaster you might also want to check that it is voxelizing correctly once FAR is installed correctly.  Many of bac9's new parts have non-solid colliders, which is fine for Unity physics because they're marked as convex, but FAR only sees the raw mesh data.  They might need a patch to set forceUseMeshes = true in FAR's GeometryPartModule.

That might explain why the beta mk1 parts weren't happy. Uninstalled them temporarily though but I think I'll MM a patch before I forget.

In case anyone else is having problems, it appears to be Baha's cockpits causing my particular CoL ball issue - not found out why yet.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Van Disaster

[blowfish]

37 minutes ago, Van Disaster said:

In case anyone else is having problems, it appears to be Baha's cockpits causing my particular CoL ball issue - not found out why yet.

They have ModuleLiftingSurface, and no patch to remove it in the presence of FAR.

[SpacedInvader]

On 12/8/2015, 2:51:49, Gaiiden said:

I'm running Hayes on 1.0.4 but a look at the change logs for recent releases did not specifically address this issue - although I did see a lot of voxel improvements that could perhaps have also inadvertently solved this issue I'm seeing. I've noticed that going into the tracking station and returning directly to the craft causes the reference area to change. It doesn't vary extremely wildly, but it does differ from load to load for some reason:

 

I've also got recorded instances of 5.262 and 5.295

I can confirm this behavior on the current version as well.

[aluc24]

I'm not sure, but I think I've got a bug report. It appears that with FAR and KSP 1.0.5, water resistance became weird. I crashed my plane several times into the water, and as cockpit broke off, it started gliding at 50m/s in the water, barely slowing down (taking like 5 minutes to come to a full stop).

Has anyone else noticed this?

[NathanKell]

Make sure you are on KSP 1.0.5 Build 1028 or above. And that you are using the latest FAR.

If in doubt, check BuildID.txt in your KSP folder.

If you're not, redownload KSP from wherever you got it. There was a patch.

[Van Disaster]

2 hours ago, aluc24 said:

I'm not sure, but I think I've got a bug report. It appears that with FAR and KSP 1.0.5, water resistance became weird. I crashed my plane several times into the water, and as cockpit broke off, it started gliding at 50m/s in the water, barely slowing down (taking like 5 minutes to come to a full stop).

Has anyone else noticed this?

Surface water resistance when you're running FAR is pretty low - you should slow down eventually though, I get ~0.5m/s/s deceleration from mk3 fuselage craft at 50m/s ( although at 30m/s practically nothing ), and airbrakes work in water. Without being able to plane - which would need hydrodynamic stuff I don't think we have any of yet, although FAR's voxelization would definitely help there - higher surface friction could be fairly destructive.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Van Disaster

[Drew Kerman]

5 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

I can confirm this behavior on the current version as well.

Thanks for taking a few mins to check it out. I opened a Github issue for Ferram to look at. I also tried to see if the value would be same upon initial craft load of a fresh game run, but no luck

[123nick]

hey i think i have a bug report, im playing with alot of mods (yes yes, i know how it may or may not be other mods causing it, but hear me out) and in the log there seems to be something about Nan values for the voxel system, or degenerate triangles or something, im not using deadly re-entry, but i am trying it with kerbal foundries tracks, and whenever i launch the vessel, when i press escape, the pause menu comes up, but i get a NRE: object not set to a instance of a object error or similiar, and the physics continue to work, and i dont know what could be causing it, besides KF or the many planet packs i have ( total of 72 planets, i counted) im running linux, too. link to bug report thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/127673-nreinstance-of-object-not-set-far-maybe/

[blowfish]

9 minutes ago, 123nick said:

hey i think i have a bug report, im playing with alot of mods (yes yes, i know how it may or may not be other mods causing it, but hear me out) and in the log there seems to be something about Nan values for the voxel system, or degenerate triangles or something, im not using deadly re-entry, but i am trying it with kerbal foundries tracks, and whenever i launch the vessel, when i press escape, the pause menu comes up, but i get a NRE: object not set to a instance of a object error or similiar, and the physics continue to work, and i dont know what could be causing it, besides KF or the many planet packs i have ( total of 72 planets, i counted) im running linux, too. link to bug report thread: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/127673-nreinstance-of-object-not-set-far-maybe/

If you're getting errors about degenerate triangles, that's something the author of that particular model has to fix.

I do see a couple of exceptions related to FAR, but given the number of other exceptions in there, it's likely caused by another mod.  At any rate, even if it is FAR, it would be impossible to find the error as it is - you will need to reproduce with a much smaller mod list.

[123nick]

Just now, blowfish said:

If you're getting errors about degenerate triangles, that's something the author of that particular model has to fix.

I do see a couple of exceptions related to FAR, but given the number of other exceptions in there, it's likely caused by another mod.  At any rate, even if it is FAR, it would be impossible to find the error as it is - you will need to reproduce with a much smaller mod list.

it seems to be KF and the lithobreaking heavy landers mod, but.... what sort of model would cause such errors? like, i assume if the model would look ok ingame, then it would work with far, no? regardless, ill post or PM them .

thanks for replying

[blowfish]

2 minutes ago, 123nick said:

it seems to be KF and the lithobreaking heavy landers mod, but.... what sort of model would cause such errors? like, i assume if the model would look ok ingame, then it would work with far, no? regardless, ill post or PM them .

thanks for replying

FAR (usually) only cares about the collider, which you don't see.  And the places where degenerate triangles are likely to occur are usually in high detail areas that you won't look at too closely.  Sometimes it's a zero area triangle that you wouldn't be able to see anyway.

I can't tell just by looking at your logs what model is causing it.  I'd recommend placing parts in the editor one by one and watching the debug output.  When you find it, report to the author.

[123nick]

7 hours ago, blowfish said:

FAR (usually) only cares about the collider, which you don't see.  And the places where degenerate triangles are likely to occur are usually in high detail areas that you won't look at too closely.  Sometimes it's a zero area triangle that you wouldn't be able to see anyway.

I can't tell just by looking at your logs what model is causing it.  I'd recommend placing parts in the editor one by one and watching the debug output.  When you find it, report to the author.

ok, i think i narrowed it down ( a little). every part from Kerbal Foundries, except the power generator, so all the wheels, anti-gravs, and track parts, seem to cause a spam of updating untitled space craft to the log, until i take it off. and the smaller landing leg form lithobreaking exploration mod also seems to cause the triangle errors, but not the larger one.

 

edit: most modded wheels seem to cause the updating spam aswell, like the grizzly wheels from the pathfinder mod. the mountain goat wheels, however, are ok, but that might be because they have there own module, and the stock wheels also ok. atleast, the stock rover wheels are ok.

edit#2: the degenerate triangles bug doesent seem too major, and not what is causing the game continuing to play when pause menu is open bug, i think its solely Kerbal foundries.

 

Edited December 12, 2015 by 123nick

[aluc24]

12 hours ago, NathanKell said:

Make sure you are on KSP 1.0.5 Build 1028 or above. And that you are using the latest FAR.

If in doubt, check BuildID.txt in your KSP folder.

If you're not, redownload KSP from wherever you got it. There was a patch.

Yes, I have the 1028 version, and the latest FAR. Still, the water seems to have almost no resistance. Why does FAR influence water at all?