Alternative to Kerbal Konstructs

[Kartoffelkuchen]

How is it that we still have to use Kerbal Konstructs for placing statics?

I'd think that there must be another, more efficient method to place buildings, especially with the other built-in airports like desert airfield now.

How did Squad implement this?

[Stone Blue]

I could be way off the mark, but I believe Squad uses Unity assetbundles for statics and bases. While a seperate mod *might* be able to do the same thing, it probably wouldnt be as customizable as KK. Especially, for end-users to make/build/place their own statics and bases.

And why (as a mod dev), to have to go thru a, IMHO, clunky Unity/PartTools workflow, to make a mod of bases/statics, when KK already implements an in-game GUI to do it, and it does it pretty well, even tho IMHO, the GUI could use a little polishing. vOv

[Nightside]

6 hours ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

How is it that we still have to use Kerbal Konstructs for placing statics?

I'd think that there must be another, more efficient method to place buildings, especially with the other built-in airports like desert airfield now.

How did Squad implement this?

You might be able to move, remix, etc some of the stock bases using Kopernicus, but trying to use those undocumented features of Kopernicus will make you really appreciate Kerbal Konstructs!

I think JNSQ does some Kopernicus tricks to place non-scatter trees. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Nightside

[JadeOfMaar]

@Kartoffelkuchen KK adds quite a lot of functionality for what it offers. Most space centers that players build likely won't offer anything other than launch sites and -maybe- more groundstations. But there are so many other great features and specially some great fixes that happened just after KSP 1.8 came.

• Animate on sunrise
• Animate on click
• Hangars (craft storage) kinda like Allista's mod. (Put craft away, but for KK, up to a set limit of number of craft and tons per craft)
• Funds farm
• Science farm
• Refueling (buy/sell for $ in career mode)
• Resource caching
• Integrated Landing System (only works well when a given base or "group" has only one runway).

It would be pretty neat if someone produced a lightweight alternative to KK, I know there's demand for it, but I wouldn't bet on it providing a significant fraction of the feature set listed above. It's just the kind of mod where once one exists, it becomes huge, and no one will ever want enough to build another mod like it, or be able to meet the immense coding requirements to build another one. It easily looks like too much effort to re-invent the wheel. They'll just use the one mod and complain to its dev (or about its dev ).

Examples of the exception/ Examples where this rule doesn't apply are:

• Rocket part mods
• Small and medium QoL mods like dV calculators, autopilots, and transfer window planners

6 hours ago, Kartoffelkuchen said:

How did Squad implement this?

The obvious answer is: Squad created KSP. Of course Squad will be able to create the means within KSP to perform X feature. But just how Squad does things is typically hush-hush stuff. Also consider that there are times where Squad makes a feature that's very difficult or just wasteful for the modding community to prepare to take advantage of:

• [Difficult] Breaking Ground's ROCs: It's impossible to add feature rich objects like these, and the ones that are given are hardcoded to the stock planet templates. (Every mod planet uses the template of a stock planet for underlying functional details.) So you can't put Vall's cryovolcanoes on a mod planet that's not using the Vall template.-- You cannot mix them like: put ROCs from Eve, Duna and Minmus together on the same body. In response, Kopernicus introduced a feature that lets you lock modules until you're near to certain scatters. This especially applies to experiments. The only things DLC ROCs have over this module are that the ROCs animate and you can chip off a chunk and pocket it.
• [Wasteful] Making History's launch site selector and selections: Uh. They're not impressive. I built KK bases to challenge them and directly replace them. KK provided the necessary features long before MH existed. I personally find it weird when folks complain in favor of MH over KK.
• [Difficult] The fancy planet shaders: You can bet money that the Kopernicus devs got some gray hair trying to understand the inner workings of these.
• [Difficult] The planetary system: Kopernicus' ability to change this is not to be taken lightly.
• [Wasteful] Variant switching: This is a wasteful one could have been a fuel switcher in addition to mesh switching, and would help to unify the modding ecosystem just a little more (maybe). Other mesh switch mods (B9, Firespitter, Interstellar, decal mods) could have evolved to become extensions of this, however, variant switching made itself irrelevant right out the gate.

[Kartoffelkuchen]

@JadeOfMaar Thank You very much for the detailed answer, this helped bring some light into the dark.

 

[kerbiloid]

It would be great to build the static objects in Global Construction or Extraterrestrial Launchpads manner.

I.e, collect required resources in a box, put it on the Mun, "Prepare" → (manually select the construction site like in KerbalKonstructs) → "Start building".
Several weeks later (depending on the object size or complexity) you get a levelled concrete platform like if you put it by KerbalKonstructs.
Then another platform, another one, a firewall, a road, a fortress, etc.

Actually, this is just a "delayed/countdown" option for Kerbal Konstructs, and a KonstructBox part growing on progress like in Ground Construction.

So, you can mine Rock, add Metal, and build the ground base basic structures out of them, rather that do it cheatingly.

Edited June 26, 2020 by kerbiloid

[DStaal]

12 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

It would be great to build the static objects in Global Construction or Extraterrestrial Launchpads manner.

I.e, collect required resources in a box, put it on the Mun, "Prepare" → (manually select the construction site like in KerbalKonstructs) → "Start building".
Several weeks later (depending on the object size or complexity) you get a levelled concrete platform like if you put it by KerbalKonstructs.
Then another platform, another one, a firewall, a road, a fortress, etc.

Actually, this is just a "delayed/countdown" option for Kerbal Konstructs, and a KonstructBox part growing on progress like in Ground Construction.

So, you can mine Rock, add Metal, and build the ground base basic structures out of them, rather that do it cheatingly.

WBI's Pathfinder can do that.

Of course, it depends on Kerbal Konstructs to do it...