Kerbal Space Program 1.10: "Shared Horizons” Grand Discussion Thread

[RealKerbal3x]

2 minutes ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

Someone made a good point in my little lander challenge. What would an Interstellar comet look like in tracking station? Would we not see the full orbit or is it just in a very high orbit? 

Probably a highly inclined hyperbolic orbit.

[Guest]

Just now, RealKerbal3x said:

Probably a highly inclined hyperbolic orbit.

I saw one that had a low periapsis and had a really high apoapsis and it was in polar orbit of the sun. So that might be one.

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

I saw one that had a low periapsis and had a really high apoapsis and it was in polar orbit of the sun. So that might be one.

Possibly, though in one of the update previews I saw, an interstellar comet was on a solar escape trajectory with a low periapsis.

[Guest]

Just now, RealKerbal3x said:

Possibly, though in one of the update previews I saw, an interstellar comet was on a solar escape trajectory with a low periapsis.

I need to find that update preview

[RealKerbal3x]

5 minutes ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

I need to find that update preview

It was either ShadowZone's or Matt Lowne's, if that helps.

[Bej Kerman]

On 7/5/2020 at 6:11 PM, MechBFP said:

On 7/5/2020 at 3:43 PM, anarkhon said:

I haven't played in years with KSP.

I looked into the assets,still a big mess,please reconsider optimizing the textures,2k textures for a small black seat and who using the ancient .MBM files? 

https://imgur.com/a/cm79TyW

Can you provide a logical reason as to why they would possibly want to spend time on this?

Can you provide a logical reason as to why they wouldn't fix such a glaring issue with the game? 

On 7/6/2020 at 12:00 AM, MechBFP said:

On 7/5/2020 at 7:54 PM, anarkhon said:

Resource efficiency,faster loading times,waste memory,cpu time and bandwith and heating up the room with a gpu.

Eons ago in the x86 ksp era,modders  switched to .DDS textures to reduce memory footprint ,FPS hiccups,lags and game loading times.

.PNG and .MBM textures eating up memory twice and still need to convert it "on the fly".

You deffinitly dont need 2048x2048 pixels 12 megabytes texture for a small black seat.

I get all that, I mean what logical reason would Squad want to do that for?

You're telling me there's no reason to not use ancient formats and textures that bog the game down!?

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Can you provide a logical reason as to why they wouldn't fix such a glaring issue with the game? 

You're telling me there's no reason to not use ancient formats and textures that bog the game down!?

No, what benefit does that provide to Squad? Is that going to increase sales? Are those textures actually causing performance problems that need to be resolved?

As far as I can tell all it does is eat up a bit of disk space and RAM, and quite frankly if it wasn’t a big enough issue to fix in 2013, it certainly isn’t in 2020. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by MechBFP

[Bej Kerman]

5 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

2 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Can you provide a logical reason as to why they wouldn't fix such a glaring issue with the game? 

You're telling me there's no reason to not use ancient formats and textures that bog the game down!?

No, what benefit does that provide to Squad? Is that going to increase sales? Are those textures actually causing performance problems that need to be resolved?

As far as I can tell all it does is eat up a bit of disk space and RAM, and quite frankly if it wasn’t a big enough issue to fix in 2013, it certainly isn’t in 2020. 

It's not like Squad has their priorities set.And what's wrong with spending time on increasing performance? Why do you hate the concept of Squad taking 5 seconds to do some converting and retexturing?

[MechBFP]

14 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

It's not like Squad has their priorities set.And what's wrong with spending time on increasing performance? Why do you hate the concept of Squad taking 5 seconds to do some converting and retexturing?

I don’t care if they do, it just appears to be a complete and utter waste of their resources that could be better spent on literally anything else. 

[Bej Kerman]

23 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

39 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

It's not like Squad has their priorities set.And what's wrong with spending time on increasing performance? Why do you hate the concept of Squad taking 5 seconds to do some converting and retexturing?

I don’t care if they do, it just appears to be a complete and utter waste of their resources that could be better spent on literally anything else. 

You have yet to tell me how saving resources is an utter waste of time.

[MechBFP]

28 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

You have yet to tell me how saving resources is an utter waste of time.

Because the majority of end users aren’t going to notice the difference. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by MechBFP

[Bej Kerman]

4 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

33 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

You have yet to tell me how saving resources is an utter waste of time.

Because the majority of end users aren’t going to notice the difference. 

Does it matter? Besides, people seem to like the fact that Restock fixes issues like this. Besides², things like this build up. If you fixed everything draining on performance, you'd get a game much faster.

[MechBFP]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

Does it matter? Besides, people seem to like the fact that Restock fixes issues like this. Besides², things like this build up. If you fixed everything draining on performance, you'd get a game much faster.

Yes it matters. Is Squad a charity? Do you understand that those resources have to be paid to do this work? Do you understand that doing work which doesn’t provide any increase in revenue is literally a waste of money?

If KSP was getting bad reviews for performance problems for example, then absolutely they would have a good business reason to do it.

If they could present it in a PR way to increase sales, once again they would have a good reason to do it.

The simple fact is that there is currently no business benefit to doing it, so it is both a waste of time and money for Squad.

If you can provide a business case for Squad, feel free though. 

[Bej Kerman]

1 minute ago, MechBFP said:

6 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Does it matter? Besides, people seem to like the fact that Restock fixes issues like this. Besides², things like this build up. If you fixed everything draining on performance, you'd get a game much faster.

Yes it matters. Is Squad a charity? Do you understand that those resources have to be paid to do this work? Do you understand that doing work which doesn’t provide any increase in revenue is literally a waste of money?

If KSP was getting bad reviews for performance problems for example, then absolutely they would have a good business reason to do it.

If they could present it in a PR way to increase sales, once again they would have a good reason to do it.

The simple fact is that there is currently no business benefit to doing it, so it is both a waste of time and money for Squad.

If you can provide a business case for Squad, feel free though. 

A lot of people will care. In fact, everyone will care if they'd fix the loading issue and make KSP stop loading everything on startup. You may not care but it doesn't matter.

[MechBFP]

3 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

A lot of people will care. In fact, everyone will care if they'd fix the loading issue and make KSP stop loading everything on startup. You may not care but it doesn't matter.

Once again, make a business case. I don’t see review bombing or people not buying the game because of loading times. Existing users might care but unless those existing people aren’t planning on DLC specifically because of loading times, then once again there is no business case. 
Squad is a business and everything they have done over the years for existing users also benefits them as well.

If you can prove that this is impacting them negatively, then I will agree with you. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by MechBFP

[Bej Kerman]

2 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

5 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

A lot of people will care. In fact, everyone will care if they'd fix the loading issue and make KSP stop loading everything on startup. You may not care but it doesn't matter.

Once again, make a business case. I don’t see review bombing or people not buying the game because of loading times. Existing users might care but unless those existing people aren’t planning on DLC specifically because of loading times, then once again there is no business case. 
Squad is a business and everything they have done over the years for existing users also benefits them as well.

If you can prove that this is impacting them negatively, then I will agree with you. 

Make a business case for the ability to lock a fairing's fade out in the editor. KSP was selling good enough before and no-one's going to buy the game because of said small feature. /s

[MechBFP]

13 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Make a business case for the ability to lock a fairing's fade out in the editor. KSP was selling good enough before and no-one's going to buy the game because of said small feature. /s

Like I said before I don’t care if they do it. Just like I don’t care that they did that for the fairings. I agree that fairing change didn’t have any business case, but not everything Squad does has to. It is their business after all lol. This change was probably someone pets project because it was a personal annoyance and they got the go ahead to do it.
If someone in Squad wants to take this on as their pet project as well, they can go right ahead, I don’t care  

However don’t expect this to happen anymore than how anyone expected a change to how fairings worked.

Edited July 8, 2020 by MechBFP

[Bej Kerman]

7 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

15 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Make a business case for the ability to lock a fairing's fade out in the editor. KSP was selling good enough before and no-one's going to buy the game because of said small feature. /s

Like I said before I don’t care if they do it. Just like I don’t care that they did that for the fairings. I agree that fairing change didn’t have any business case, but not everything Squad does has to. It is their business after all lol. This change was probably someone pets project because it was a personal annoyance and they got the go ahead to do it.
If someone in Squad wants to take this on as their pet project as well, they can go right ahead, I don’t care  

However don’t expect this to happen anymore than how anyone expected a change to how fairings worked.

If the change to fairings didn't matter but was enjoyed, then why are you against another idea that doesn't matter but will be enjoyed?

[MechBFP]

1 minute ago, Bej Kerman said:

If the change to fairings didn't matter but was enjoyed, then why are you against another idea that doesn't matter but will be enjoyed?

Once again, I am not. I am not sure how many times I can tell you that. 
What I AM against is the expectation that this something Squad should focus on. 

[linuxgurugamer]

@JPLRepo

There seems to be problems with some parts which have auto-generated drag cubes, specifically those parts which used to have procedural drag cubes.  For example, for a part in the ASET PRC rover, the PartDatabase in 1.9.1 had:

PART
{
	url = ASET/PRC/KRoverBumper/ASET_PRC_Bumper
	DRAG_CUBE
	{
		procedural = True
	}
}

In 1.10, it gets the following error:

DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'ASET.PRC.Bumper'
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

Uploading Crash Report
NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ModuleDeployablePart.AssumeDragCubePosition (System.String name) [0x00088] in <c168e21ec56346b082f89043e76162e1>:0 
  at DragCubeSystem+<RenderDragCubes>d__34.MoveNext () [0x001de] in <c168e21ec56346b082f89043e76162e1>:0 
  at UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) [0x00027] in <5aeafee3fea24f37abd1315553f2cfa6>:0 
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:Internal_LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Logger:LogException(Exception, Object)
UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)
 
(Filename: <c168e21ec56346b082f89043e76162e1> Line: 0)

Curl error 7: Failed to connect to perf-events.cloud.unity3d.com port 443: Connection refused
Curl error 7: Failed to connect to cdp.cloud.unity3d.com port 443: Connection refused

I tried copying in the stanza from the old PartDatabase, but that didn't work either

Do you know what's wrong, I assume something is missing in the part model.  

=====

Edit: I tried the old trick of disabling animations in the part, loading the game and then copying the drag cube from the PartDatabase for that part to the part in question, unfortunately, the created drag cube is:

PART
{
	url = ASET/PRC/KRoverBumper/ASET_PRC_Bumper
	DRAG_CUBE
	{
	}
}

and ends up getting the same error.

For now, I've copied in the drag cube from the cubic strut as a placeholder

Edited July 8, 2020 by linuxgurugamer

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, MechBFP said:

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

If the change to fairings didn't matter but was enjoyed, then why are you against another idea that doesn't matter but will be enjoyed?

Once again, I am not. I am not sure how many times I can tell you that. 
What I AM against is the expectation that this something Squad should focus on. 

I do expect the devs to make an effort to make a game not cause my PC to slow down until the next restart. What would Squad be to not take suggestions or save hours of a slow and laggy desktop? It's not like they don't take suggestions, there's an entire subforum dedicated to that. Squad NEEDS to focus on the 2k textures for small parts and ancient formats. I am not sure how many times I can tell you that.

[MechBFP]

14 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Squad NEEDS to focus on the 2k textures for small parts and ancient formats

But you have yet to say why other than "performance improvements" despite the fact that there is no major concerns regarding performance that these texture changes would fix.

The loading times and RAM usage within the stock game itself, when running at least the minimum requirements, is perfectly acceptable. Or do you disagree on that?

Edited July 8, 2020 by MechBFP

[Bej Kerman]

3 minutes ago, MechBFP said:

17 minutes ago, Bej Kerman said:

Squad NEEDS to focus on the 2k textures for small parts and ancient formats

But you have yet to say why other than "performance improvements" despite the fact that there is no major concerns regarding performance that these texture changes would fix.

The loading times and RAM usage within the stock game itself, when running at least the minimum requirements, is perfectly acceptable. Or do you disagree on that?

Perfectly Acceptable? I give up, you're just going to keep arguing that 2k textures aren't a sign of something being wrong.

[MechBFP]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Perfectly Acceptable? I give up, you're just going to keep arguing that 2k textures aren't a sign of something being wrong.

I am not arguing they aren't wrong. They are indeed unnecessary bloat, that is just obvious.

The thing is that it isn't causing any problems, it is just inefficient, but the inefficiency is so incredibly minor it doesn't have any meaningful impact on the end product for the user.

It is like a customer complaining that a 6 foot wide gear is out of tolerance by 0.1mm. No one cares, and no one is going to fix that issue because it has virtually no impact on the end product.

Edited July 8, 2020 by MechBFP

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Bej Kerman said:

Perfectly Acceptable? I give up, you're just going to keep arguing that 2k textures aren't a sign of something being wrong.

The effort it would take to fix the 2k textures doesn't justify the amount of time, you are talking about an artist for a period of time to redo each texture, at least 1 qa person to go over, etc.

Is it perfect?  No, and it will never be perfect.  Is it good enough ?  Absolutely