Part selection

[mcwaffles2003]

We are about to have a lot of parts to sort through...

I feel like part selection, as more parts populate the list, over time becomes difficult. The parts are in a random assortment with small and similar shaped icons that are sortable by only several categories. Other than these categories we have 4 ways of sorting the list: 

• Name - If you know the name you can type it in the search bar
• Mass  - Good to know but not without other refining contexts
• Cost   - Doesn't matter in ²/₃ of the game types 
• Size    - At least you find a part that fits

There should be a better way of doing this. Most online shops have a way to do this that allow us to find products we need among thousands of options in a store. For instance, you go to newegg and shop for some RAM and a camera lens, how do you find what you need? For the ram you would select (Compnents>Memory>Desktop memory) and be shown many different RAM sticks. From here you would be shown sort functions particular to the category you are in, such as; Clock speed, Capacity, Cas-Latency, etc.. All things that have to do with RAM and you would be able to find the specific stick of RAM you are looking for. Alternatively, to find the lens I would select (Electronics>Digital Cameras>Camera Lenses) and be shown many lenses From here, once again, you would be shown sort functions particular to the category you are in, such as; Focal Length, Aperture, Image Stabilization, etc... and you would just as easily find the lens you were looking for.

So why is it the case when selecting an engine you can't sort the list of engines by thrust, Isp, or fuel type? Why, when I got to electronics, can't I sort the list by EC capacity, EC generation, or type? Why, when I go to tanks, I can't sort by fuel type, diameter, or fuel capacity?

I hope this king of QoL improvement hasn't been overlooked as I think it would make building much smoother and that's at least 1/4 of the game experience.

 

EDIT:

Perfect example:

Spoiler

Why would I sort by fuel while looking at capsules/probe cores? Will "type" even separate capsules from cores here?

I think it can be managed to make a compact form of a browsing tool like this:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edit 2: I feel like having the ability to select multiple features and sort out parts that you're not looking for are the key mechanisms to a good part search.

Edited October 29, 2020 by mcwaffles2003

[The Aziz]

Size means nothing in the first game as parts are all over the place anyway. It feels like it's sorted by surface area. Which is useless for the player. If it really was sorted by volume, it would work. But that's a thing I commented on dozens of times already in several threads.

[mcwaffles2003]

37 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Size means nothing in the first game as parts are all over the place anyway. It feels like it's sorted by surface area. Which is useless for the player. If it really was sorted by volume, it would work. But that's a thing I commented on dozens of times already in several threads.

It's sorted by intended diameter. All the 0.625 parts, then 1.25, etc

[Superfluous J]

It's sorted by mass.

At least, in my VAB it is because I sort by mass and can't find anything if it's not sorted by mass.

If they aren't already addressing this in KSP2, then the game is going to suck no matter how many suggestions we make. Something as fundamentally fixable as this should have been in the design spec from the start.

[mcwaffles2003]

2 minutes ago, Superfluous J said:

If they aren't already addressing this in KSP2, then the game is going to suck no matter how many suggestions we make. Something as fundamentally fixable as this should have been in the design spec from the start.

This is why I bring it up, if you look at the first spoiler in the OP you will see the system is the same except size is automatically sorted.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Where is this from? Did I miss something?

Anyway, I don't have strong feelings either way as I find the current system more than enough (even with modded parts) but I'm ready to try anything different they're willing to offer knowing that they wouldn't "break the tradition" (that's already the cheapest option) if not for something that's clearly better designed and/or that resonates well with playtesters.

 

[linuxgurugamer]

Try using FilterExtensions, also QuickSearch.   They were written to help in this situation.

and while I agree the current option could be improved, the two mod make, IMHO, a reasonable alternative.

[mcwaffles2003]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

Try using FilterExtensions, also QuickSearch.

Already do, thank you for keeping them updated  

[shdwlrd]

Most command pods have monoprop. That's the reason you're seeing fuel as a sorting option for pods category. 

Over all, the sorting of parts for KSP1 is usable. It's not the best system I've seen. The addition of tags helped me out a lot. But that can only help so much. A way to drum down the options you want can be helpful. One option they can do is add subcategories to the main ones. One example would be pods. You can add categories for probe cores and manned command pods. Another example would be the ground category. You could add subcategories for wheels, tracks, landing gear, landing legs, skids, feet. 

Or the items can be grouped together by the categories.

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by shdwlrd

[The Aziz]

7 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

It's sorted by intended diameter. All the 0.625 parts, then 1.25, etc

Interesting...

I took some parts from the list going from the top and placed them in order. Do you see any inconsistency?

Mk0 fuselage, 1.25m short tank, adapter from Mk0 to 1.875, another adapter from 1.25 to 1.875, tank of the same size, 1.25m to Mk2 adapter, short 2.5m tank, THEN long 1.25m tank(!), then Mk3 short, then Mk2 to 2.5m adapter.

Same set of parts sorted by the size of a bottom attachment node would work much much better.

[mcwaffles2003]

10 hours ago, Master39 said:

Where is this from? Did I miss something?

Anyway, I don't have strong feelings either way as I find the current system more than enough (even with modded parts) but I'm ready to try anything different they're willing to offer knowing that they wouldn't "break the tradition" (that's already the cheapest option) if not for something that's clearly better designed and/or that resonates well with playtesters.

 

Its from here:

https://www.pcgamer.com/space-odyssey-our-first-big-look-at-kerbal-space-program-2/

@The Aziz I take that back, that's not sorted at all...

7 hours ago, shdwlrd said:

Most command pods have monoprop. That's the reason you're seeing fuel as a sorting option for pods category. 

 Then that wouldn't sort anything anyway if all of them have the same fuel, also if you were to select electronics I bet fuel would still be right there.

[shdwlrd]

12 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Then that wouldn't sort anything anyway if all of them have the same fuel, also if you were to select electronics I bet fuel would still be right there.

But it would show you which pods have fuel and which ones don't. I'm thinking it was used just for that screen cap. I've already spotted at least 2 new command pods, and maybe they didn't want to show them yet.

[The Aziz]

This thread reminds me of something else. I hope they expand the Utilities tab, because now there's everything and anything that doesn't fit in other categories, and so you find all kinds of junk there. Parachutes, crew cabins, lights, ladders, whatever. For me, if we're getting colony parts, all crew compartments should go there, parachutes go into ground/landing tab, I don't know.

[mcwaffles2003]

3 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

This thread reminds me of something else. I hope they expand the Utilities tab, because now there's everything and anything that doesn't fit in other categories, and so you find all kinds of junk there. Parachutes, crew cabins, lights, ladders, whatever. For me, if we're getting colony parts, all crew compartments should go there, parachutes go into ground/landing tab, I don't know.

If nearly all online stores and certain video libraries can get this right with a little side panel I see no reason KSP 2 shouldn't be able to as well

[probe137]

On 10/30/2020 at 10:25 AM, mcwaffles2003 said:

If nearly all online stores and certain video libraries can get this right with a little side panel I see no reason KSP 2 shouldn't be able to as well

There actually is a 'side panel' in KSP called advanced mode. I discovered it when I installed Feline Utility Rovers incorrectly (Didn't move KerbetrotterLtd folder to GameData folder, found it by accidentally reading 'advanced mods'). It has more specific sorting methods than function such as manufacturer, cross-section profile, tech tier and module type (So specific most of the categories don't even have an icon). It's opened by pressing the arrow in top of the part catalogue. (You can even find versions of parts before they were revamped). You can also find subassemblies and make your own categories.

[shdwlrd]

34 minutes ago, probe137 said:

There actually is a 'side panel' in KSP called advanced mode. I discovered it when I installed Feline Utility Rovers incorrectly (Didn't move KerbetrotterLtd folder to GameData folder, found it by accidentally reading 'advanced mods'). It has more specific sorting methods than function such as manufacturer, cross-section profile, tech tier and module type (So specific most of the categories don't even have an icon). It's opened by pressing the arrow in top of the part catalogue. (You can even find versions of parts before they were revamped). You can also find subassemblies and make your own categories.

That was only helpful when you were searching for parts with a distinct profile. (OPT) Or if a modder utilized it. For stock, it was useless.

[Popestar]

My wish is that parts could be grouped differently.  I sometime struggle to find the most basic things, like the crew cabin, and I end up having to click through every category until I find it.  Or that some parts aren't really in what should be the right category; SRB's really aren't engines...but they aren't really fuel systems either.  Or they are both.

So I hope that we can get parts grouped by a more granular type, such as Fins, or Cockpits, or Nose Cones.

[mcwaffles2003]

7 hours ago, probe137 said:

There actually is a 'side panel' in KSP called advanced mode. I discovered it when I installed Feline Utility Rovers incorrectly (Didn't move KerbetrotterLtd folder to GameData folder, found it by accidentally reading 'advanced mods'). It has more specific sorting methods than function such as manufacturer, cross-section profile, tech tier and module type (So specific most of the categories don't even have an icon). It's opened by pressing the arrow in top of the part catalogue. (You can even find versions of parts before they were revamped). You can also find subassemblies and make your own categories.

Fully aware of it and find it in no way is useful. I just want to be in the engines menu and be able to sort by (mass, thrust, isp), I want to be in the tanks section and be able to filter out containers without liquid fuel and sort by size, I want to go to the control category and be able to sort by crew capacity or filter out crew modules to search for probes or be able to sort probe cores by their features. In the current system you con sort by 1 factor and the available factors you can sort by are effectively useless, you cant filter parts out beyond clicking a category, and when you try to search by name it completely ignores the category you are in and pulls up every part in the game. 

TL;DR: The current stock part selection system is horrible and NEEDS to be updated, especially if the variety of parts in KSP 2 is going to be 10x the variety of KSP 1.

5 hours ago, Popestar said:

SRB's really aren't engines...but they aren't really fuel systems either.  Or they are both.

They're motors, not engines. Engines by definition require moving parts to produce motion.

Edited November 7, 2020 by mcwaffles2003