kerbal ftl [Min KSP 1.12.2] Blueshift: Kerbal FTL

[Angelo Kerman]

51 minutes ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

Yeah, I had experienced stuff like that before. Was just hoping it was a mod issue so that it could be fixed more easily. Anyway, with regard to the Space Dust collectors, I am playing with boosted resource bands (1000 times higher abundance), because the asteroids seem to hate me. 

 

Is it intended behavior that with KFS, asteroid mining for graviolium doesn't work?  Also, is KFS required for gravitic engines. It seems like it?

KFS and Blueshift are intended to play well with each other. Next update will ensure that Blueshift's patches take precedence over KFS.

Blueshift has no gravitic engines, that's a KFS thing. The closest is the contragravity device that I'm slowly working on.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

On 5/1/2024 at 10:54 AM, Pegboard said:

To be totally fair, it does encourage you to actually pursue the other pathways to graviolium. Though, since AFAIK space dust doesn't work when you're not on the craft, so it makes it kind of painful to actually use it.

@Pegboard

Just confirmed with a quick test; Space Dust definitely has background resource gathering. 

[Pegboard]

1 hour ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

@Pegboard

Just confirmed with a quick test; Space Dust definitely has background resource gathering. 

Doesn't work on my machine, Guess I'll have to debug it later.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

2 hours ago, Pegboard said:

Doesn't work on my machine, Guess I'll have to debug it later.

Space Dust for blueshift won't work out of the box, period. Next update will have fixed Space Dust configs. Until then, go into the SpaceDustForBlueshift cfg, find s2 bussard collector, and at Harvested resource: graviolium, change minHarvestValue to something super low (like 0.(20 zeros here)1. Then the size 2 bussard collector should work, albeit very slowly.

[Pegboard]

50 minutes ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

Space Dust for blueshift won't work out of the box, period. Next update will have fixed Space Dust configs. Until then, go into the SpaceDustForBlueshift cfg, find s2 bussard collector, and at Harvested resource: graviolium, change minHarvestValue to something super low (like 0.(20 zeros here)1. Then the size 2 bussard collector should work, albeit very slowly.

To be clear, I'm using the original Space Dust Bussards, which do have the sensitivity to collect the graviolium, they simply only do so when I'm focused on the craft.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

32 minutes ago, Pegboard said:

To be clear, I'm using the original Space Dust Bussards, which do have the sensitivity to collect the graviolium, they simply only do so when I'm focused on the craft.

That is very strange...

In my install, the original bussards failed to collect graviolium, but after my tweaks, worked flawlessly, background or not. The config files also suggest that the minHarvestValue is too high...

Which graviolium belt are you collecting in? Are you using any of the configured planet mods?

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

@Angelo Kerman

From a balance perspective, what would be a good amount of time to gather 1000 graviolium, assuming 2 of the size 2 collectors.

Since a large mining vessel can hold 10000+ graviolium, it seems reasonable for 4000+ graviolium to be difficult to acquire without mining, but under that, you can use space dust collectors. 

So then the question is what is a reasonable amount of time to wait for collectors to work?

[Pegboard]

6 hours ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

That is very strange...

In my install, the original bussards failed to collect graviolium, but after my tweaks, worked flawlessly, background or not. The config files also suggest that the minHarvestValue is too high...

Which graviolium belt are you collecting in? Are you using any of the configured planet mods?

Kerbin, sitting around 300km up. It's a real trickle.

[Angelo Kerman]

8 hours ago, Pegboard said:

Kerbin, sitting around 300km up. It's a real trickle.

Interplanetary/interstellar dust-form graviolium isn't supposed to be a staple crop; it's a supplemental thing that should take time to accumulate. You should find better pickings with asteroids as well as mining Dres and Eve.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

Oh wait... adding extra ec storage fixed my mining problems... sometimes I really am an idiot. I thought it should work fine if I just have solar panels, but apparently not. I'll try playing an actual game with graviolium mining now. 

[Rakete]

On 4/30/2024 at 6:21 AM, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

@Rakete

Assuming you use Space Dust, I think I figured out this issue; space dust configs were incorrect. Posted here

and made some pull requests.

 

If you were trying to use the stock exospheric gathering system, I believe you need to be at either 6000 meters or 600000m  orbit. I'll check the configs and get back to you.

I can confirm that my provided spacedust ressource configs work well in my install with unchanged spacedust mod. From my point of view no need to change anything.

Please explain what you want to have changed with your pull requests. From my point of view there is no need to change the harvester efficiency and the PR.

 

 

Topic might also interest @Angelo Kerman

Edited May 14 by Rakete

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

1 hour ago, Rakete said:

I can confirm that my provided spacedust ressource configs work well in my install with unchanged spacedust mod. From my point of view no need to change anything.

Please explain what you want to have changed with your pull requests. From my point of view there is no need to change the harvester efficiency and the PR.

 

 

Topic might also interest @Angelo Kerman

The pull requests just make the space dust harvesters have a very low minHarvestValue. Reason for that was that in my install with blueshift, flying saucers, and space dust, harvesters weren't working. 

 

I'll run another test when I can with just blueshift and space dust; perhaps flying saucers interferes with space dust?

What version of blueshift & ksp are you using?

 

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

Test with blueshift, spacedust, tweakscale, hyperedit:

https://imgur.com/a/05w7Yqs

 

This confirms that blueshift on KSP 1.12.5 doesn't work with space dust properly. 

This is a fresh install of KSP and all mods.

 

I still can't understand what's going on in your install. 

 

@Angelo Kerman This does seem to confirm the error exists, but it (somehow) might be on my machine specifically. If you have time, could you take a look at this? 

[Angelo Kerman]

On 5/14/2024 at 6:39 PM, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

Test with blueshift, spacedust, tweakscale, hyperedit:

https://imgur.com/a/05w7Yqs

 

This confirms that blueshift on KSP 1.12.5 doesn't work with space dust properly. 

This is a fresh install of KSP and all mods.

 

I still can't understand what's going on in your install. 

 

@Angelo Kerman This does seem to confirm the error exists, but it (somehow) might be on my machine specifically. If you have time, could you take a look at this? 

Uh, that's hard for me to triage. What I'd do is start with a clean build of KSP, then install Blueshift, then Kerbal Flying Saucers (if you have that), then spacedust. Before installing Spacedust, make sure things are working.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

4 minutes ago, Angelo Kerman said:

Uh, that's hard for me to triage. What I'd do is start with a clean build of KSP, then install Blueshift, then Kerbal Flying Saucers (if you have that), then spacedust. Before installing Spacedust, make sure things are working.

I've done this twice actually; both times I got identical results (space dust not working). The second time I actually ran tests without space dust (everything seemed fine).

 

On 5/15/2024 at 9:39 AM, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

This does seem to confirm the error exists, but it (somehow) might be on my machine specifically. If you have time, could you take a look at this? 

What I meant was, could you just install blueshift and space dust to see if the problem occurs on your rig. I know diagnosing this would be hard.

 

From what I have seen, @Rakete seems to have a magic install that Just Works(tm).

Edited May 17 by KspNoobUsernameTaken

[Pegboard]

Space dust works fine on my machine, though (as the design seems to imply) the Bussards from Blueshift only would work at warp speed. I've got too many mods to list and currently in the middle of a Beyond Home playthrough though (to which I should probably put some Space Dust around...).

Edited May 17 by Pegboard

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

13 minutes ago, Pegboard said:

Space dust works fine on my machine, though (as the design seems to imply) the Bussards from Blueshift only would work at warp speed. I've got too many mods to list and currently in the middle of a Beyond Home playthrough though (to which I should probably put some Space Dust around...).

The bussards actually come with space dust harvesters. Therefore, if they only work at warp, there is likely an error. Unless blueshift doesn't have Beyond Home configs for space dust, then its expected. 

[Pegboard]

8 minutes ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

The bussards actually come with space dust harvesters. Therefore, if they only work at warp, there is likely an error. Unless blueshift doesn't have Beyond Home configs for space dust, then its expected. 

Blueshift has its own, Trek-y Bussards, and there's a big, chunky (5m?) Bussard from Space Dust itself. That one works fine, blueshift's do not harvest anything at normal speeds (and all the dust rings exist below warp altitude, I believe.) Beyond Home indeed does not have BS configs, but this was how it was working on this set on my vanilla playthrough.

Edited May 17 by Pegboard

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

2 hours ago, Pegboard said:

Blueshift has its own, Trek-y Bussards, and there's a big, chunky (5m?) Bussard from Space Dust itself. That one works fine, blueshift's do not harvest anything at normal speeds (and all the dust rings exist below warp altitude, I believe.) Beyond Home indeed does not have BS configs, but this was how it was working on this set on my vanilla playthrough.

So the bussards in blueshift do come with a space dust harvester. Them not working outside warp is the issue I saw. The warp harvesting is a seperate system handled by Angel-125's own modules.

Does the Space Dust included bussard collect graviolium by default? All the other resources added by space dust should work fine with both Blueshift & Space Dust collectors, only graviolium is bugged.

 

Re: blueshift bussards

You can see here there is an included space dust harvester:
 

Spoiler

@PART[wbiS2BussardCollector]:NEEDS[SpaceDust]
{
	!MODULE[ModuleResourceHarvester] {}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSpaceDustHarvester
		ModuleID = harvester

		SystemPower = 150
		SystemEfficiency
		{
			key = 0 1.0
			key = 400 1.0
			key = 600 0.0
		}

		PowerCost = 200
		CheckOcclusion = false
		HarvestType = Exosphere
		HarvestIntakeTransformName = Intake
		IntakeArea = 1000
		IntakeSpeedStatic = 0
		IntakeVelocityScale
		{
			key = 0 0
			key = 1 1
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = XenonGas
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = Oxidizer
			BaseEfficiency = .25
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = LiquidFuel
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = Graviolium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Hexagen
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}

		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Hydrokerbon
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Oxium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Propellium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Rock
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Water
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = LqdHydrogen
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = LqdHe3
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = LqdDeuterium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = Antimatter
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}

	}
}

 

 

@Angelo Kerman

I noticed the space dust patches are configured to gather liquid hydrogen only if Far Future Technologies is installed. However, LqdHydrogen is included in the Community Resource Pack, so the logical dependency would be on said CRP. Is this an intentional choice?

[Pegboard]

5 minutes ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

So the bussards in blueshift do come with a space dust harvester. Them not working outside warp is the issue I saw. The warp harvesting is a seperate system handled by Angel-125's own modules.

Does the Space Dust included bussard collect graviolium by default? All the other resources added by space dust should work fine with both Blueshift & Space Dust collectors, only graviolium is bugged.

 

Re: blueshift bussards

You can see here there is an included space dust harvester:
 

  Hide contents

@PART[wbiS2BussardCollector]:NEEDS[SpaceDust]
{
	!MODULE[ModuleResourceHarvester] {}

	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleSpaceDustHarvester
		ModuleID = harvester

		SystemPower = 150
		SystemEfficiency
		{
			key = 0 1.0
			key = 400 1.0
			key = 600 0.0
		}

		PowerCost = 200
		CheckOcclusion = false
		HarvestType = Exosphere
		HarvestIntakeTransformName = Intake
		IntakeArea = 1000
		IntakeSpeedStatic = 0
		IntakeVelocityScale
		{
			key = 0 0
			key = 1 1
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = XenonGas
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = Oxidizer
			BaseEfficiency = .25
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = LiquidFuel
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE
		{
			Name = Graviolium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Hexagen
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}

		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Hydrokerbon
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Oxium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Propellium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Rock
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[WildBlueIndustries/ClassicStock]
		{
			Name = Water
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.0000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = LqdHydrogen
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = LqdHe3
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = LqdDeuterium
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}
		HARVESTED_RESOURCE:NEEDS[FarFutureTechnologies]
		{
			Name = Antimatter
			BaseEfficiency = .2
			MinHarvestValue = 0.00000000000000000001
		}

	}
}

 

 

I assumed that the inability to harvest in any the default belts at normal orbital speeds was intentionally, and yes, I can confirm that the basic space dust Bussard also harvests graviolium, I believe by patch, though I could not figure out exactly which one allows it. That one is the one I had not work offscreen, which meant that gathering graviolium that way was basically a no-go.

 

Edit: Ah, that one is actually FFT, thought the exosphere scoop Bussard was Space Dust, so the patch is in there. The min harvest value for them is far lower than the BS bussards, so it can actually capture it.

Edited May 17 by Pegboard

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

12 minutes ago, Pegboard said:

I assumed that the inability to harvest in any the default belts at normal orbital speeds was intentionally, and yes, I can confirm that the basic space dust Bussard also harvests graviolium, I believe by patch, though I could not figure out exactly which one allows it. That one is the one I had not work offscreen, which meant that gathering graviolium that way was basically a no-go.

 

Edit: Ah, that one is actually FFT, thought the exosphere scoop Bussard was Space Dust, so the patch is in there. The min harvest value for them is far lower than the BS bussards, so it can actually capture it.

Alright, so seems I haven't been totally wrong. Still weird that FFT scoops can gather graviolium, because as far as I can see, they also have too high of a minHarvestValue. Maybe Space Dust does some voodoo there. 

Not gonna mess with them if they work though... pick your battles.

Could you test with the blueshift bussards as well... just trying to test on as many rigs as possible.

To be clear, the collectors provided by Blue Shift are called respectively:

S2 Bussard collector

S1 Bussard collector

Mk2 Bussard collector

[Pegboard]

I've tried to use the blueshift bussards, with no ability to gather graviolium around the Kerbin rings, it'd be a bit of trouble for me to test anywhere else right now but I can say that at least the Kerbin ones are too thin for the blueshift buzzards. They are affected by your actual velocity relative to the field as I gathered through, which may be the difference for the FFT ones being able to harvest it despite the on-paper density values of the fields.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

12 minutes ago, Pegboard said:

I've tried to use the blueshift bussards, with no ability to gather graviolium around the Kerbin rings, it'd be a bit of trouble for me to test anywhere else right now but I can say that at least the Kerbin ones are too thin for the blueshift buzzards. They are affected by your actual velocity relative to the field as I gathered through, which may be the difference for the FFT ones being able to harvest it despite the on-paper density values of the fields.

That would explain it; all of my tests were in the same orbit & with blueshift bussards. Maybe the lower minHarvestValue of FFT bussards (around 10^-10 times lower) compared to blue shift harvesters, PLUS a higher orbital velocity, could combine to allow harvesting.

 

Thanks for your help; the issue is in fact real and not a ghost in my computer.

[TOMMY (JEB 2.0)]

On 4/18/2024 at 1:05 PM, Angelo Kerman said:

Yeah, I hate to say it but a mass effect core in KSP isn't practical. There's too many places where I'd have to change how delta-v is computed, plus it fundamentally changes the rocket equation. On top of that, to keep acceleration low, you'd have to throttle the engines way back, and lose the cool exhaust plume effects. In order to get a vessel that looks cool with exhaust effects and has high acceleration and high ISP (essentially what a mass effect core does) I'd have to fiddle with engines, fix joint strength, and who knows what else. Just not worth the effort, especially when I have a gravitic engine already in Kerbal Flying Saucers.

So, instead, I'm looking at an old phenomenon from the early days of Blueshift: warp dragging. Back in the day, if you went to warp when another ship was in physics range, the other ship would be dragged along with you. It was a bug, and one that people used to drag other things like asteroids around. I'm thinking about making that possible again, but the active warp engine would need to account for the other object(s) mass. That would mean you could drag other objects, but they'd slow you down. Warp Dragging would be an optional feature that you can configure in Settings.

i think my blueshift is old as im still fighting that bug

[AbnormalVenegrade]

This may have been already asked before (I tried checking), but is it possible to have a "warp bubble" when zooming outside the warp area of the effect? Very similar to the gravitational lensing achievable with the singularity mod, since the outside of an Alcubierre drive would appear to look like a stretched, moving black hole. I doubt this is possible with the limitations of KSP, but I was curious.