Eva construction mode, limits, uses, using while continuing old saves

[KerikBalm]

So I finally updated to 1.11.1 yesterday, and I don't really know how eva construction works, or specifically how I might make use of it. Furthermore, I wanted to continue a save that I have put a lot of work into one big mission, for which no components have left kerbin's SOI yet (most are orbiting a 3x Mun, where Minmus normally is).

I wanted to know how people envision using EVA construction in their missions, how to dovetail such uses into pre- 1.11 missions, and what exactly the limits of EVA construction are.

My first thought about EVA construction relates to my modular surface base building: my surface bases are composed of rover-modules that each fit into a mk3 cargo bay. Each rover has its own probe core, batters, and power supply. I figure that I can reduce part count by using EVA construction to add those parts when deploying the rover, and then remove and store them after docking. I'd like to do the same with the TR-2l Ruggedized wheels... but I want to know:

* is node attach available in EVA construction? are part offset and rotation tools (I tested EVA construction very breifly last night, with radially attached parts)

* What are the largest parts that you can store? What are the heaviest parts that can be used on Laythe/Tylo (0.8g)? Can an empty FLT-200 tank be moved around

* What are the limits for EVA construction? can I build things in orbit out of 2.5 meter parts and such (lets assume empty fuel tanks, to be filled later)

 

How are the rest of you using EVA construction? I imagine that this adds a lot of possibilites that go beyond novelties, but I'm not sure what they are (particularly since I don't know the limits yet). I am excited about using it to reduce part count though :p

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, KerikBalm said:

* is node attach available in EVA construction? are part offset and rotation tools (I tested EVA construction very breifly last night, with radially attached parts)

Yes to both.

2 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

* What are the largest parts that you can store? What are the heaviest parts that can be used on Laythe/Tylo (0.8g)? Can an empty FLT-200 tank be moved around

I don't exactly recall, but you should be able to find out by right-clicking on them in the VAB/SPH part selection window. In 1.11.1 they introduced the ability for Kerbals to assist engineers in moving heavier parts, so theoretically you can lift the largest manipulatable part in any gravity with enough Kerbals.

3 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

* What are the limits for EVA construction? can I build things in orbit out of 2.5 meter parts and such (lets assume empty fuel tanks, to be filled later)

As far as I know 2.5m parts can't be manipulated - the largest part that Kerbals can move is the 1.875m monopropellant tank from Making History. But whether a part can be manipulated or not is defined in its config file, so a Module Manager patch would probably work in enabling the movement of larger parts.

[KerikBalm]

So, other than placing and removing parts to avoid redundancy and reduce part count, what ways have you thought of to play the game differently with this new feature.

I mean, there's got to be some good ones, but my creative juices aren't flowing so much. I get the idea of assembling something small like a rover on site, or trying to jury rig somethign workable after a hard landing that causes parts to fall off... but... I'm really drawing a blank for other ideas

[Daedalus3000]

With the new addition of bring more kerbals (where do they come from anyways?) there are a lot more possibilities. You could augment missions with already existing scrap like adding extra solar panels to your ship from a crashed rover (I have a good number of those...), or even build your way off of a planet with debris? Also good for building wonky satellites that would otherwise mess up your lifter design (especially for SSTOs) by doing a DIY assembly in orbit. Or maybe even assembling a rocket capable of getting to eve orbit on site at eve(possible challenge idea for the truly insane??) Just some ideas...

[KerikBalm]

8 hours ago, Daedalus3000 said:

With the new addition of bring more kerbals [...] there are a lot more possibilities.

Agree, with the older 100kg weight limit (if I understand the mechanics correctly), the parts you could place were very limited.

8 hours ago, Daedalus3000 said:

You could augment missions with already existing scrap like adding extra solar panels to your ship from a crashed rover (I have a good number of those...), or even build your way off of a planet with debris?

Yes, as I mentioned "trying to jury rig somethign workable after a hard landing that causes parts to fall off..."

8 hours ago, Daedalus3000 said:

Also good for building wonky satellites that would otherwise mess up your lifter design (especially for SSTOs) by doing a DIY assembly in orbit.

Honestly, that was never a problem for me, even at a 3x rescale:

Spoiler

^That was all launched by SSTO

This too:

 

Given that you can't even do orbital assembly of 2.5m parts, it doesn't add much in that department for me

8 hours ago, Daedalus3000 said:

Or maybe even assembling a rocket capable of getting to eve orbit on site at eve(possible challenge idea for the truly insane??) Just some ideas...

Well, with the new kerbal assist... maybe... still, the part size limits are a bit contraining to me.

I would love if I could make a robotic arm that could move larger parts close to where i want them (in orbit), and then an engineer could do construction as long as the large part is already close to where you want to place it.

Right now I just imagine making small rovers and tiny drones... which I could easily transport anyay

I mean... I guess I could make this with EVA construction:

Spoiler

or something like this:

but... I could do that before with the benefit of part symmetry, they weren't too bulky to move.

I know there's got to be some cool uses, I'm just waiting to see them

[Daedalus3000]

2 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Honestly, that was never a problem for me, even at a 3x rescale:

  Hide contents

^That was all launched by SSTO

This too:

 

Given that you can't even do orbital assembly of 2.5m parts, it doesn't add much in that department for me

Ok... I apparently lack imagination when it comes to SSTOs, and yeah I think you should be able to handle 2.5m parts in stock, but a module manager patch could help with that. You are right the options are limited but that also makes it more realistic. As for eve I’m pretty sure the MOAR boosters approach can fight not being able to handle larger parts. 

[KerikBalm]

2 hours ago, Daedalus3000 said:

Ok... I apparently lack imagination when it comes to SSTOs, 

I mean... many of those "SSTO launched" things required orbital assembly via docking, but orbital assembly via docking is for the big stuff, while EVA assembly is for the small stuff.

That said... In my latest 3x game (no pics), I've been using robotics to fold out  some girders with sola panels instead of having all the gigantors attached along the axis... I could save some robotic parts and instead assemble girders and solar arrays in orbit.

I suppose it could be cool to build some girder arrays in space... maybe even a big rotating wheel (out of structural panels) to drive around on as in an old KSP youtube video... but the lack of symettry tools will really hamper that I think

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, KerikBalm said:

maybe even a big rotating wheel (out of structural panels) to drive around on as in an old KSP youtube video...

This?

 

[KerikBalm]

@Bej Kerman yes, something like that would be rather hard to get to orbit with current aero, but could one build it well enough in eva mode?

[Bej Kerman]

11 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

@Bej Kerman yes, something like that would be rather hard to get to orbit with current aero, but could one build it well enough in eva mode?

Not until they stop drifting about while building.

[RealKerbal3x]

Just now, Bej Kerman said:

Not until they stop drifting about while building.

I'm pretty sure the drifting issue is much better in 1.11.1. It's not completely fixed but it allows for much better accuracy.

[KerikBalm]

Hmm, so I thought of something that may interest me: re-enginging ships. Doesn't cause symettry problems, allows you to plan the whole craft from the start with a standard design

Got a spaceplane that you want to send to duna? Take off kerbin with rapiers, change out the engines (you can have an orbital engine depot) for aerospikes or LV-909s, or LV-Ns (you can use those in EVA construction, no?)

Once upon a time when I played stock size, I made designs that would decouple airbreathing engines+equipment + LF tanks after acheiving orbit (in the form of engine packs that were themselves little, very high TWR, paceplanes that I could then recover). It was a bit of a pain in the butt, because if I used 4 such engine packs, that would be 4 recoveries back at KSC for each launch. 

Now I can just take off the engines, placing rapiers in a linear stack, and have just 1 pod with wings and landing gear, that takes all the engines back down... or I leave them stacked at some station (engine depot), and I can put them back on if/when the space plane comes back to kerbin.

I rather like the idea of an orbital engine depot with high TWR engines for landing/ascent, and high Isp engines for transfers

Edited February 5, 2021 by KerikBalm

[The Aziz]

Unless manually tweaked, the mass can be a problem with such ideas. I launched the game yesterday for the first time since the update, and boi, the possibilities. I put some tiny parts in storage container, brought some kerbals and constructed a tiny probe - core, reaction wheel, battery, solar panel, antenna, two tanks and engine - just like that. 1400m/s Dv, enough to start from Mun orbit, land there and return to orbit. So even at this scale it's revolutionary. But I wanted to talk about mass. Because single, fully loaded Oscar-B tank was too heavy even for three Kerbals. But with additional help I was able to build it. And yeah, some parts you can't just put in a container (which makes sense), but I'm sure There Will Be A Mod For That.

[KerikBalm]

@The Aziz regarding mass, in orbit, or on bodies such as Gilly, the mass is not a problem no? 

In orbit, isn't it just a matter of a line in the config file as said here:

On 2/3/2021 at 12:30 PM, RealKerbal3x said:

whether a part can be manipulated or not is defined in its config file,

Sure, surface construction will have different limits than orbital... but I'm just asking about EVA in general, that is what is possible under at least one set of EVA conditions.

I'd further guess that constructing on Gilly gives the best of both, since orbital construction has problems of things floating away.

Also a full Oscar B tank is 0.225 tons that is 225 kg, I thought each Kerbal was good for lifting 100 kg? Does it not stack linearly (like transmitter power).

I figure in the case of tanks, you can place an empty tank, then fill it...