Kerbal Space Program 2: Episode 3 - Next Gen Astronauts

[mikegarrison]

On 5/15/2021 at 1:56 AM, Blaf said:

Nice stuff! However for me it feels like there's tendency to picture the first game as too much difficult and therefore that the sequel should be made easier (simplified?).

Many things in KSP are hard not because they are hard to conceive but because they are hard to do using the tools KSP gives. How many times have you struggled with attachment nodes?

Ideally KSP2 should make it easier to build and fly the rocket you want to build and fly, but not make it easier for that rocket to do what you want it to do.

[Guest]

<snip>

Edited June 20, 2021 by Guest

[pandaman]

On 5/24/2021 at 1:22 AM, TLTay said:

Same exact drawing and postit arrangement on this video as was in the February 2020 video:

Feb 2020: Pause at 22 seconds

May 2021: Pause at 6:07.

Interdasting. Maybe if they are using older video, they are further along than we think? 

Good spot.  Although It looks to me that both clips were filmed for the eatlier video (I haven't studied the other toom and background details though to compare).  I do think there could be a significance to the postit arrangement though.

[Wubslin]

On 5/24/2021 at 7:57 PM, mikegarrison said:

Many things in KSP are hard not because they are hard to conceive but because they are hard to do using the tools KSP gives. How many times have you struggled with attachment nodes

Or struggled to know your ascending node relative to Duna while still in orbit of Kerbin? Or your planetary phase angle? 

[mikegarrison]

3 hours ago, Wubslin said:

Or struggled to know your ascending node relative to Duna while still in orbit of Kerbin? Or your planetary phase angle? 

True, but I was trying to point out that even really simple things are sometimes harder than they need to be. Why is it tricky to center a booster on a radial decoupler? You have to attach near to the up/down center of the booster and then there are three ways to attach -- centered, or canted to left or right. How often do you want anything other than centered? And how many times have you not noticed that you somehow accidentally missed attaching to the decoupler and instead just welded the booster directly to the side of the center core?

[Wubslin]

Just now, mikegarrison said:

True, but I was trying to point out that even really simple things are sometimes harder than they need to be. Why is it tricky to center a booster on a radial decoupler? You have to attach near to the up/down center of the booster and then there are three ways to attach -- centered, or canted to left or right. How often do you want anything other than centered? And how many times have you not noticed that you somehow accidentally missed attaching to the decoupler and instead just welded the booster directly to the side of the center core?

Of course. But I care less about messing with video game construction UI and more about having the navigational tools necessary to improve my flying skills. I have 1200+ hours in KSP and I still never know how to inject directly into an inclination for a conjunction-class transfer to another planet. 

I either need to have the target planet be coplanar with Kerbin/Earth, or I need to coincidentally have my transfer orbit's apse line be collinear with the ascending or descending node to the target planet, or else I just need to do a bigass plane change in solar orbit which is wastes delta-v. Can't I have some really simple vector addition tools or a Children of a Dead Earth-style reference frame switcher or something?

[mikegarrison]

21 minutes ago, Wubslin said:

Of course. But I care less about messing with video game construction UI and more about having the navigational tools necessary to improve my flying skills. I have 1200+ hours in KSP and I still never know how to inject directly into an inclination for a conjunction-class transfer to another planet. 

I either need to have the target planet be coplanar with Kerbin/Earth, or I need to coincidentally have my transfer orbit's apse line be collinear with the ascending or descending node to the target planet, or else I just need to do a bigass plane change in solar orbit which is wastes delta-v. Can't I have some really simple vector addition tools or a Children of a Dead Earth-style reference frame switcher or something?

I just do what the pros do. I let the computer (MechJeb) calculate it for me.

[Wubslin]

1 hour ago, mikegarrison said:

I just do what the pros do. I let the computer (MechJeb) calculate it for me.

Where's the spirit in that? My mechjeb is the vis-viva equation and a list of planetary orbital info lol

[DST Studios]

Happy to see that the Dev team on KSP 2 actually responds and is part of the community, it is cool to see the procedural wings and all of the other new features being added.

Also I know it has been said 1.5 Million times in this thread but where is dres? 

 

[PlutoISaPlanet]

On 5/26/2021 at 3:51 PM, mikegarrison said:

True, but I was trying to point out that even really simple things are sometimes harder than they need to be. Why is it tricky to center a booster on a radial decoupler? You have to attach near to the up/down center of the booster and then there are three ways to attach -- centered, or canted to left or right. How often do you want anything other than centered? And how many times have you not noticed that you somehow accidentally missed attaching to the decoupler and instead just welded the booster directly to the side of the center core?

I hate that, and it is especially a struggle on console!

[Klapaucius]

On 5/19/2021 at 5:47 PM, Brikoleur said:

I have a suspicion that there's a whiff of "In my day we didn't even have manoeuvre nodes, deal with it whippersnapper" about this. We're a self-selected bunch here, the few, the elite, the glorious who got through that initial frustration and went on to construct anything from robo-frogs to long-range spaceplanes, giant stations to ridiculously intricate gravity assist missions, and there's no shame in taking a tiny bit of pride in that. I still think our main enjoyment comes from what we're able to do after, and there would be more of us if the early game wasn't so frustrating.

This is a wise statement--and thanks for the Frog shout out :-)  What I think worries people, or at least worries me sometimes,  is the overuse of "intuitive".   Some interfaces are "intuitive" but not very logical.  I teach both Photoshop and Adobe Premiere to new users. I tell them the interface is NOT intuitive, but it IS logical.  You do have to be willing to do a bit of training to get up to speed, but once you do, everything falls into place.  Sometimes making something easily accessible at first actually becomes a barrier to usability down the line.  For example, do you want a real life airplane cockpit to be intuitive to a non-pilot, or do you want it to be just the right environment for a trained pilot to work in? 

It is a tough balance to achieve.

 

On another note...

I seem to be the only one not very excited about procedural wings.  I will probably change my tune, but I do really, really enjoy the challenge of working with what I am given.  That limitation has actually made me more creative in my designs (most of which are whacked anyway).  One of my most satisfying recent creations was a traction engine in pure stock: https://kerbalx.com/Klapaucius/Rattler-Traction-Engine  Being able to create something out by pushing parts and building to its limits within the given constraints is incredibly fun for me.

So, I do hope that there is a not a wholesale move to procedural parts.  A big aspect of the KSP challenge and aesthetic for me is the Lego aspect of the game.

 

Finally: re tutorials.  This is a great thing they are  doing.  I was frustrated early on as well, and the in-game tutorials were buggy, overly precise (as in one small missed step that was not always clear and you got stuck) and there were not enough of them.  I love Scott Manley, but by the time I started in 2017 his current videos were too advanced for me, and his earlier more basic ones were out of date. I never would have made it through without the criminally underknown Nerdy Spaceman, who I still believe made the best ever beginner's series of tutorials to KSP.  It shocks me that the first video in the series has less than a 1000 views. I would not be here were it not for him.

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Klapaucius

[Sesshaku]

Hey, it's friday again. WHERE'S MY SNEAK PEAK?

 

Just joking, but it would be awesome to see something else.

[The Aziz]

Your sneak peek is a week from now.

[PlutoISaPlanet]

Patience is a virtue

[AtomicTech]

Patience is Relative.