A legitimate case for ending support for console(and not making console port of KSP2)(Contraversial)

[kspnerd122]

Everyone on PC has LONG since realized this, the console version is trash, and you know it, I dont understand why resources that could go into better things for the supermajority of KSPs community are currently spent on AT MOST 20% of KSP's players.

Now, obviously, we wouldnt just randomly end support with no updates etc. What would happen would be similar to how mojang ended support for the old console editions of minecraft, they put out a final, good update, and then they just stopped updating it, the servers didnt shut down, and the players who already had the game were able to just keep playing as long as their machine would allow them to. This could happen with KSP on console(and KSP2 on console as well) we support it for a few more years, put out a few more good updates, and then just stop updating it, bug support would still happen(for about 1-2 years) and then, it just ends, no updates, no bugfixes, no nothing.

KSP1 is easier, just do 1-2 more updates to console, and then the 2nd one is the "last update" it adds all of the features(good features, not just part revamps) and then it ends, for good(maybe support the next gen consoles, but only do this to the current gen Xbox1, PS4).

KSP2 is a bit trick, since people were counting on being able to play it on their old console, 1st off, I belive that we should still RELEASE it on consoles, but after 1-2 years, either A, slow down the updates and mainly just fix bugs(obviously, this relies on console users being able to get mods freely, which is unlikely) but if a official mods area was implemented(even just for edited planetary systems) well, once the updates had stopped(the updates should be good, such as adding 1-2 new systems, and 50+ new parts) well, on next gen, updates would continue as normal, but on the current, commonly used consoles, KSP2 should stop supporting them to remove the low specs limiting what they can do.

Edited May 20, 2021 by kspnerd122

[Guest]

I see no problem in continuing KSP 1 console. Because some people enjoy it and it's mostly another company that handles those updates, so squad isn't most of the time spending resources on it.

What I am concerned about is KSP 2, KSP 2 is promised to be on Xbox 1 and PS4. And that's 9 years old when it releases. What I fear is that KSP 2 is going to be is super great on PC and absolutely trash on Xbox 1 and PS4. I fear one of the things that are going to push back KSP 2 is console. I think KSP 2 should worry more about implementing on Mac than console, because at the end of the day, KSP 2 will be better on Mac than Xbox One and PS4. 

At the end of the day, it wouldn't be too bad per say if KSP and KSP 2 would stop/never-do console. Because who really wants to play KSP but way worse at the same price with no mods and infrequent updates. 

I would love to hear some Console peeps out there give some thoughts

[Guest]

Tbh I never understood why a game in the style of KSP that begs for mods to be used due to missing elements would be released on console. It’s like releasing a console version of Excel. 

Having said that, it does exist and people play it so it wouldn’t be fair on them to pull all support as they paid their hard earned cash just like everyone else.

However you don’t buy Mario 8 and have it upgraded to Mario 9 when that comes out so perhaps the version should have been locked. But of course with the PC version having new elements added every updated, if this happened, console players would feel pretty cheated and they probably wouldn’t buy the game. Which then goes back to my original point of why release a game like KSP on console?

[wpetula]

I share the same concerns as you guys. I don't want KSP 2 on console to be left behind in support and updates. At the same time, I do not want to wait 1-2 years for the console version to release (I don't have a good computer yet). I wish they could update PC and console version at the same time, but this would require a lot of work and planning on the developers' end. I would rather see a delay for console release on PS5-gen consoles than PS4-gen consoles (the PS4 wait wouldn't be worth it). 

As a console player (until recently), I would be disappointed to see KSP 2 not release on the PS4 or PS5. I would also be equally disappointed if the KSP 2 port matched the performance of KSP 1's console port.

Edited May 19, 2021 by wpetula

[Guest]

It's purely a business decision. If the console port brings in more money than it takes to maintain it, and there are no other, more profitable things you could use the effort on, it makes sense to maintain it. I believe the KSP console port is maintained by a subcontractor who specialises in that sort of thing, and if the revenue from it is sufficient to pay them with a little extra, it would be kind of dumb to leave that money on the table.

Exclusivity contracts make this a bit more complicated, Microsoft for example could throw a lump of cash at Private Division for an exclusive Windows/XBox release, which would mean that they'd have to roll out at the same time.

[Parv Kerman]

I mostly agree with this statement. I don't know of many players on the console platform and the majority is playing on PC. However, completely discontinuing the console version would be unfair to the console players.

They could roll out updates less frequently, and focus on the PC version more.  

It's always good to have a variety and it's a plus point for KSP for having both PC and console versions.

[Jack Mcslay]

13 hours ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

I see no problem in continuing KSP 1 console. Because some people enjoy it and it's mostly another company that handles those updates, so squad isn't most of the time spending resources on it.

What I am concerned about is KSP 2, KSP 2 is promised to be on Xbox 1 and PS4. And that's 9 years old when it releases. What I fear is that KSP 2 is going to be is super great on PC and absolutely trash on Xbox 1 and PS4. I fear one of the things that are going to push back KSP 2 is console. I think KSP 2 should worry more about implementing on Mac than console, because at the end of the day, KSP 2 will be better on Mac than Xbox One and PS4. 

At the end of the day, it wouldn't be too bad per say if KSP and KSP 2 would stop/never-do console. Because who really wants to play KSP but way worse at the same price with no mods and infrequent updates. 

I would love to hear some Console peeps out there give some thoughts

Considering the statistics on Steam, a lot of PC gamers don't seem to have a PC a whole lot better than an X1 or PS4. If it runs trash on consoles it's going to run trash on a lot of PCs too.

[Starhelperdude]

oh god, I can already smell the malicious arguments

I'm for console support

I don't play ksp on console

but others do

so yeah

[Spaceman.Spiff]

15 hours ago, kspnerd122 said:

Everyone on PC has LONG since realized this, the console version is trash, and you know it, I dont understand why resources that could go into better things for the supermajority of KSPs community are currently spent on AT MOST 20% of KSP's players.

Some people only have access to console though. I don't see why they should be prevented from playing KSP2. 

Plus I have no clue how people have still not realized that SQUAD does not develop the console port.

Plus, KSP1, even on PC, probably only has a few more years of life. Why not just bring the console people along for the ride?

I think that it could be better executed than the first console version because Take Two has been involved from the start. Now that might be bad for for other parts of the game, but you can't deny that they bring a good amount of experience in developing console games.

[kspnerd122]

Well, one idea if we wanted to just take the console users to the point where KSP1 just dies at some point, is, we make much better updates, add in lots more parts, MAYBE add some new planets(or a planetary system editor for people to make their own planets) and then make it so that console users can download and install other peoples modified systems or parts packs, maybe a final hurahh for KSP1 on console and PC could be making it so that PC users could make custom planets, and they would be usable to the console players, same for parts, which means that there will always be something new in KSP, also, KSP1 has had a good run, eventually, when it starts to lose interest, lets send it off in the most kerbal way possible, a final, grand update, adding a whole lot of features, adding a new star system(maybe from a mod such as extrasolar) moving it in closer(about GEP distance) and then giving people the parts needed to go out and explore it, that would be honestly, the best send off KSP1 could get

Also, I specifically said NEXT GEN CONSOLES WOULD NOT HAVE SUPPORT ENDED(which means PS5 would not have support ended)

But yeah, honestly, a final send off for KSP1 should happen, maybe, they could make KSP1 have maybe 1 of the interstellar systems from KSP2(a larger one of course) and then give us the parts to get there, after everything is passed, the players have had the perfect update, a perfect send off for KSP1, kopernicus would be made stock and a planet editor and downloading area would be added(console users would have similar planet editor, and planets would be makable and sharable across platforms) pretty much, give them the best update ever, finally giving console users mods and making the PC players feel like the sky is never the limit anymore, since now, a infinite number of systems could be made, and ANYONE with KSP could play it

[CollectingSP]

I have never played, and probably will never play the console version of KSP. 

I got KSP in 2015. I have played on PC the entire time. I'm probably biased here, but it's worth a shot at proving my point.

the fact that the game even has a console version confuses me. I understand the case that some people only have a console, but the fact that PC has always been the dominant (AND ORIGINAL)  platform for the game makes it harder for me to see the point of continuing dev work on something that probably makes so little revenue for Squad/TTI. 

PC is where it's at. the DLC's, the money, everything. that makes it very hard for me to see Squad or TTI not discontinuing console to make more money, and to put more updates and features into the majority of the player base on PC.

Edited May 19, 2021 by CollectingSP

[Single stage to ocean]

Keep it on console, but the catch is all processing is not done on console. You connect it to a computer via WiFi, which does the computing. Could be slow, but vastly better. Maybe even distributed computation could help. Kind of like the Anker robot toy thingy.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Single stage to ocean said:

Keep it on console, but the catch is all processing is not done on console. You connect it to a computer via WiFi, which does the computing. Could be slow, but vastly better. Maybe even distributed computation could help. Kind of like the Anker robot toy thingy.

I would have to disagree, that would restrict KSP to people with only great internet. Thus a movement to make KSP computer only

1 hour ago, Spaceman.Spiff said:

Some people only have access to console though. I don't see why they should be prevented from playing KSP2. 

Plus I have no clue how people have still not realized that SQUAD does not develop the console port.

Plus, KSP1, even on PC, probably only has a few more years of life. Why not just bring the console people along for the ride?

The main concern I have is what's being dropped from KSP 2 to support consoles that are 9 years old at release time. Is it really better to have KSP 2 on console where it would be way worse? Most people have computers that are younger than Xbox 1 and PS4.  The truth is, you can't support all devices. Look at Minecraft, they had a large Xbox 360 and PS3 playerbase but they discontinued it to make a better Minecraft.

Not having console support for KSP 2 would make a Band-Aid ripping situation. But in the long term, it wouldn't be that bad. Most people would find an alternative or find a way to get money. I wanted to play KSP, so I worked hard to get money to buy better hardware.

I think it's fine to have KSP 1 console for at least a few more years, no problem with that. But KSP 2 console just sounds like 2077 is about to happen all over again when it releases.

[kspnerd122]

36 minutes ago, The Doodling Astronaut said:

I would have to disagree, that would restrict KSP to people with only great internet. Thus a movement to make KSP computer only

The main concern I have is what's being dropped from KSP 2 to support consoles that are 9 years old at release time. Is it really better to have KSP 2 on console where it would be way worse? Most people have computers that are younger than Xbox 1 and PS4.  The truth is, you can't support all devices. Look at Minecraft, they had a large Xbox 360 and PS3 playerbase but they discontinued it to make a better Minecraft.

Not having console support for KSP 2 would make a Band-Aid ripping situation. But in the long term, it wouldn't be that bad. Most people would find an alternative or find a way to get money. I wanted to play KSP, so I worked hard to get money to buy better hardware.

I think it's fine to have KSP 1 console for at least a few more years, no problem with that. But KSP 2 console just sounds like 2077 is about to happen all over again when it releases.

Yeah, honestly, KSP2 on console should be scrapped, since honestly, it would let them make a better game, since Xbox 1 and PS4 are almost as old as KSP itself, so not having support for them and instead just focus ENTIRELY on PC users(which make up like 80% of KSPs playerbase already) so killing console KSP2 wouldnt be too bad, yes, it will annoy console players yes, but come on, you are already playing a watered down version of KSP where the lag is horrendous, so honestly, lets let the console users stick around until KSP1 dies, but dont make a console port of KSP2, now, yes, I know it was promised, but the thing is, if you can afford next gen console, you can afford a decent PC, and also, you can do other stuff with your PC, not just play games and watch netflix, so honestly, not having KSP2 on console would mean that the PC players, who are already the supermajority of KSP players therefore, what do you do, make the game quite a bit worse for 80% of the playerbase who have PCs to give the 20% or less people who play console a playable experience, or do you not make a console port, but make the PC version of KSP2 have some big new features, e.g, new star systems, or new interstellar engines, such as antimatter drives, atmospheric fusion drives, more advanced colonization mechanics, now, yes, to those 20%, they will be upset, but remember, 80% or more of your players will be overjoyed to get the new features, most PC players dont care if a console edition exists, and when a lot of us mention it, we usually say how bad it is. now, obviously, KSP2 console port woudnt be as bad, but still, consider this.
Play KSP2 today
A, play the awesome PC experience
B, play the watered down cash grab on consoles

Edited May 19, 2021 by kspnerd122

[Guest]

1 hour ago, kspnerd122 said:

Yeah, honestly, KSP2 on console should be scrapped, since honestly, it would let them make a better game, since Xbox 1 and PS4 are almost as old as KSP itself, so not having support for them and instead just focus ENTIRELY on PC users(which make up like 80% of KSPs playerbase already) so killing console KSP2 wouldnt be too bad, yes, it will annoy console players yes, but come on, you are already playing a watered down version of KSP where the lag is horrendous, so honestly, lets let the console users stick around until KSP1 dies, but dont make a console port of KSP2, now, yes, I know it was promised, but the thing is, if you can afford next gen console, you can afford a decent PC, and also, you can do other stuff with your PC, not just play games and watch netflix, so honestly, not having KSP2 on console would mean that the PC players, who are already the supermajority of KSP players therefore, what do you do, make the game quite a bit worse for 80% of the playerbase who have PCs to give the 20% or less people who play console a playable experience, or do you not make a console port, but make the PC version of KSP2 have some big new features, e.g, new star systems, or new interstellar engines, such as antimatter drives, atmospheric fusion drives, more advanced colonization mechanics, now, yes, to those 20%, they will be upset, but remember, 80% or more of your players will be overjoyed to get the new features, most PC players dont care if a console edition exists, and when a lot of us mention it, we usually say how bad it is. now, obviously, KSP2 console port woudnt be as bad, but still, consider this.
Play KSP2 today
A, play the awesome PC experience
B, play the watered down cash grab on consoles

I wouldn't say KSP 2 shouldn't drop from all consoles, I think it's still fine that there is a KSP playerbase on console. But it shouldn't be at least on Xbox 1 and PS4. Because those consoles are old, I could see a legit reason for KSP on PS5 and Xbox Series X, but I just don't know how you would make a 2021 game on 2013 hardware

[Cavscout74]

I don't really care either way on this one - I don't play on console, I don't even own a console (haven't since the original PS), but if it's making Squad money & letting more people enjoy the game, I don't see a reason not to have it. 

I am curious about something, though.  As far as I remember, KSP2 was originally announced for PC only - no console, MAC, or Linux versions.  When did they announce it was definitely coming to console as well?  Or is my memory faulty?

[Daedalus3000]

Personally, (I used to play on console but switched to my old laptop instead (mods) which runs it okay) I think KSP 2 should only be released on the next gen consoles (at least at first anyways) unless they can somehow make it work on Xbox 1/ PS4. As far as KSP 1 on console, I agree that they can just support it as long as it’s profitable since it is definitely a great option to have for those without a computer.

[Vanamonde]

This suggestion for the game's development has been moved to Suggestions & Development. And by the way, the console ports do not take much work away from the PC versions because the conversion is not done by Squad. 

[kspnerd122]

Well, what it mainly has become is regarding KSP2, and whether current consoles should be supported with their 2013 hardware, or should KSP2 be entirely for PC or only support consoles where the hardware is similar to a decent PC.

[Jack Mcslay]

4 hours ago, kspnerd122 said:

Yeah, honestly, KSP2 on console should be scrapped, since honestly, it would let them make a better game, since Xbox 1 and PS4 are almost as old as KSP itself, so not having support for them and instead just focus ENTIRELY on PC users(which make up like 80% of KSPs playerbase already) so killing console KSP2 wouldnt be too bad, yes, it will annoy console players yes, but come on, you are already playing a watered down version of KSP where the lag is horrendous, so honestly, lets let the console users stick around until KSP1 dies, but dont make a console port of KSP2, now, yes, I know it was promised, but the thing is, if you can afford next gen console, you can afford a decent PC, and also, you can do other stuff with your PC, not just play games and watch netflix, so honestly, not having KSP2 on console would mean that the PC players, who are already the supermajority of KSP players therefore, what do you do, make the game quite a bit worse for 80% of the playerbase who have PCs to give the 20% or less people who play console a playable experience, or do you not make a console port, but make the PC version of KSP2 have some big new features, e.g, new star systems, or new interstellar engines, such as antimatter drives, atmospheric fusion drives, more advanced colonization mechanics, now, yes, to those 20%, they will be upset, but remember, 80% or more of your players will be overjoyed to get the new features, most PC players dont care if a console edition exists, and when a lot of us mention it, we usually say how bad it is. now, obviously, KSP2 console port woudnt be as bad, but still, consider this.
Play KSP2 today
A, play the awesome PC experience
B, play the watered down cash grab on consoles

People who would play it on consoles are very unlikely to play it on PC instead. Not everyone has a competent PC that can run KSP2 smoothly, in fact I don't think most do considering the majority of PC sales on the past few years have been laptops. Not having a console version means less revenue, not revenue that would be converted to PC sales, specially considering they're making KSP2 more newbie friendly for children to play who are more likely to have a modern console but not a decent gaming PC.

[hypervelocity]

OP suffers from the fallacy that's usually found around national budgets' discussions. "I can't believe we are spending money on XXX when we could definitely be using it for ZZZ". This argument assumes that any money freed up from XXX can be spent freely on ZZZ, which in practice does not happen. Assuming that resources used to develop/maintain consoles could be directly and seamlessly allocated to PC development is not accurate.

Edited May 19, 2021 by hypervelocity

[kspnerd122]

Well, think about it tho, make a entirely seperate port of the game, or add a bunch more parts, star systems, and colony stuff, what would the majority of the KSP community want(majority of KSP community is PC users) having a console port that in the case of KSP2, may well be taking resources from the PC version, also, the dumbing down of KSP is something im not a fan of, since it kinda just alienates the people who are already good at KSP1, have tutorials, sure, but dont make it so that noobs are doing jool 5 missions after 2 months of playing.

[hypervelocity]

1 minute ago, kspnerd122 said:

Well, think about it tho, make a entirely seperate port of the game, or add a bunch more parts, star systems, and colony stuff, what would the majority of the KSP community want(majority of KSP community is PC users) having a console port that in the case of KSP2, may well be taking resources from the PC version, also, the dumbing down of KSP is something im not a fan of, since it kinda just alienates the people who are already good at KSP1, have tutorials, sure, but dont make it so that noobs are doing jool 5 missions after 2 months of playing.

You produce the resources available to develop consoles in hopes of making a profit. If said expected profit is gone (i.e. stop supporting consoles), aforementioned resources are no longer available/do not make economic sense. This is how businesses work.

[kspnerd122]

in KSP1, it isnt(a seperate company does that) but think about it, having the market of console vs having more features to get more PC users to buy, well, im not sure, but think about it, for a time, KSP2 was 15th most wanted game on steam, so remember, we could easily get about half of the number of people on console or more buying it on PC, remember, KSP2 will likely have more PC users than ALL of KSP1s playerbase, so they arent losing any revenue, especially with DLC down the line and the more expensive price, I could easily see KSP2 doing JUST AS WELL as KSP1 without consoles

Also, again, if console got released(next gen and current gen) and then current gen slowly got phased out in favor of next gen, we remove technical limitations, also, resources also can relate to technical limitations, with current gen consoles having similar RAM and CPU to what most PC users would call a potato here

[hypervelocity]

11 minutes ago, kspnerd122 said:

in KSP1, it isnt(a seperate company does that)

SQUAD(or whatever company that developed/supported console) hired people to develop console support, for a profit. If that expected profit is gone, those people are never hired, hence you don't have "additional" capacity to invest into more PC gameplay.

11 minutes ago, kspnerd122 said:

 im not sure, but think about it, for a time, KSP2 was 15th most wanted game on steam, so remember, we could easily get about half of the number of people on console or more buying it on PC

I could easily see KSP2 doing JUST AS WELL as KSP1 without consoles

I get your "gut feeling" but usually these types of decisions are based on data to support one's claims/conclusions.

EDIT: all I'm saying is that one should not assume resource allocation on XXX is detrimental for ZZZ within a business context.

EDIT2: food for thought: could it be that actually supporting/maintaining consoles actually *grows* PC business and hence enables the company to procure/allocate more resources into PC development? (i.e. getting more people acquainted with the game, wanting a better experience and moving to PC / marketing wise getting the fanbase growing by making the game reach bigger audiences that can potentially become PC users in the future) I can think of many scenarios where this could be true.

Edited May 19, 2021 by hypervelocity