The Gaelan Space Race (we have a winner!)

[Lewie]

8 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

No problem, take your time and do what you can when you can.

Thanks, that's really appreciated! I'll make sure to post tonight or soon^tm 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Lewie

[jinnantonix]

16 hours ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

@jinnantonix can you post the times that you completed each objective?

No point, I have hit a bug.  I am starting again from scratch. 

Edit:  Game resolved, I have updated my entry with completion times as requested.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by jinnantonix

[Lewie]

Alrighty, here is my first post..my space program has had an er....rocky start...

Spoiler

I did lose some of the earlist screenies...sorry guys! I only earned like 2 science lol so y'know...standerd jumping flea. 

yeah...powder keg mk.2 was not a succes...no science was gathered from this launch...

Powder keg mk 3!!

so far so good...

and we've got a good stage sep and Second stage ignition! 

um.....

nope! 

turns out, this thing is INSANELY flip happy...

I decided to detach stayputnik and try to scrounge up a couple of meager science points

it had some other plans

Spoiler

that's it for me tonight...I'm falling alseep trying to type this

Hopefully the weekend will yield better results

(and I need to fix scatter)

 

[jinnantonix]

I have a bug, and I cant seem to fix it.  The game works fine for a while  Then suddenly for no reason, I cant create maneuver nodes.  Anybody else seeing this?

Edit.  Hunting through the forums,, it seems this is a bug, that is "easily" resolved by saving and reloading - not so easy in hard mode.  With some fiddling I was able to recover the game in a working state, and have a workaround in case the Kraken visits again.  Phew!  Onward ...

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by jinnantonix

[jimmymcgoochie]

@Lewietry angling your fins slightly to generate a spin around the roll axis. Spin stabilisation works well for unguided rockets and keeps them pointing (more or less) in the right direction (most of the time!), and was used extensively in real life for sounding rockets and unguided upper stages from the earliest satellites right up to the present day. Just don’t spin too fast or the fins tend to get ripped off, which ends badly.

[Spaceman.Spiff]

16 minutes ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

@Lewietry angling your fins slightly to generate a spin around the roll axis. Spin stabilisation works well for unguided rockets and keeps them pointing (more or less) in the right direction (most of the time!), and was used extensively in real life for sounding rockets and unguided upper stages from the earliest satellites right up to the present day. Just don’t spin too fast or the fins tend to get ripped off, which ends badly.

Yep, that’s how I did my first launch!
It’s a lesson learned from RP-1

[Lewie]

1 hour ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

@Lewietry angling your fins slightly to generate a spin around the roll axis. Spin stabilisation works well for unguided rockets and keeps them pointing (more or less) in the right direction (most of the time!), and was used extensively in real life for sounding rockets and unguided upper stages from the earliest satellites right up to the present day. Just don’t spin too fast or the fins tend to get ripped off, which ends badly.

.....

good idea! (I should’ve thought of this....I do that in RP-1 for that very purpose)

will implement that tonight. However, it’s not really the first stage that is the problem. It works fine (albeit it is uncontrolled) the idea is for it to gain altitude+speed. Now, the second stage is the problem. It is controlled, but it is INSANELY flip happy. Maybe spin stabilization would work, I’m gonna try just auto holding prograde. Thanks for the advice

[jinnantonix]

              

8 hours ago, Lewie said:

Now, the second stage is the problem. It is controlled, but it is INSANELY flip happy

The main problem is that the probe at the top of the rocket creates more drag than the engine at the rear.  The gimbal in the engine can counteract that, but the faster the rocket pushes through the atmosphere, the more drag, and there is a limit to the gimbals.  I overcame this by using more engines (more gimbals), a shorter rocket with 4 side tanks, and throttling back during ascent so velocity is <250 m/s until altitude is >30km .

[jinnantonix]

I have just encountered the weirdest bug.  While attempting a soft landing on Ceti, I drop below 23500m altitude, and the moon disappears.  All the controls and read-outs are as if Ceti is still there, but I can't see it.  Then at about 1000m the moon slowly fades back into existence.  Also, there are some weird and annoying things like, losing fine throttle control even though I still have a good signal back to Gael.  I managed the landing (just) but it was freaky.

Edit:  Since I am seeing all kinds of weird graphics anomalies, eg Gael oceans being invisible, etc, I have removed EVE and scatterer.  This fixes everything.

Edited September 17, 2021 by jinnantonix

[jinnantonix]

@jimmymcgoochie just looking ahead to Phase 2.  Is the completion time for phase 2 measured in absolute UT, or the time between the end of phase 1 and end of phase 2.  I am guessing it is the former?  Also I am still wondering:   two launches that dock to make a single craft in Gael orbit = one or two active vessels?

[jimmymcgoochie]

@jinnantonixEverything is in UT from the start; there are no prizes for completing each phase fastest, only for doing it first overall.

Re. combining craft- this could get very complicated very quickly, but I'll try to make some sense of it.

One launch to Gael orbit is one mission. If you launch two crafts separately and dock them together in orbit, that will count as one active mission for as long as they're docked together e.g. an Apollo-style lander or a transfer stage with probe(s) docked to it. Bear in mind that once you undock them they'll be two active missions again, and you can only complete two objectives per active mission.

If in doubt, don't do it.

[jinnantonix]

On 9/18/2021 at 10:45 PM, jimmymcgoochie said:

@jinnantonixEverything is in UT from the start; there are no prizes for completing each phase fastest, only for doing it first overall.

That seems to be at odds with the rules, perhaps needs some clarification.  I don't really understand the requirement for bonus points.

Quote

• Completing an objective fastest will gain you bonus points- 1 for phase 1, 2 for phase 2 and so on.

Anyway, I have now completed phase 1 with Iota and Ceti samples safely recovered on Gael.   Screenshots here . 

Phase 2 apparently requires waiting for the first Hohmann transfer windows to the nearest planets, so in the meantime I am flying all over Gael with my Science Drone and two big science missions to Iota and Ceti.  I am trying to advance the tech tree as much as possible before the first launch in phase 2, I really want some heavy rocketry, miniature hex cores and precision construction parts before going interplanetary.

BTW, this challenge is awesome fun.  GPP is amazing.  I am doing this with just the info from the CelestialBodies.pdf so each new encounter is fascinating and has an element of surprise and the danger of catastrophic failure.  Will my probe design for Icarus survive the heat?  Do I have enough deltaV to get maximum science?

Science Drone.  with J-33 Wheesley engine, can fly anywhere on Gael.

Edited September 21, 2021 by jinnantonix

[jimmymcgoochie]

@jinnantonixbonus points are per objective- so for each objective in phase 1 you get 1 point if you do it faster than everyone else, in phase 2 it’s 2 points etc.

Also can you post your progress with screenshots etc.?

[jinnantonix]

Hi @jimmymcgoochie, another rules question:
 

1.

• First interplanetary flyby of another planet;
• First interplanetary orbit;
• First interplanetary landing;
• First interplanetary rover- must visit three biomes and gather scientific data from each;

I have two active craft heading each to different planet/moon system.  So the below is completed in order:

• Craft A completes the fly-by, then goes into orbit (but does not claim this as an objective)
• Craft B completes the orbit objective
• Craft A  completes the landing objective
• Craft B  completed the rover objective.

OK?

2.

• First to put probes in orbit of five planets and/or moons (beyond Gael’s SOI);

Is the placing of each probe  around a planet/moon considered to be a separate objective?

e.g.  I have a craft headed for a planet and moon system.   My craft will complete the "first orbit" and "first landing" objectives.  At the end of the mission there will be probes around both the planet and the moon.  Do I need to do anything else to claim "probes in orbit of [two] planets and/or moons"?

3.

And one of:

• First landing on Icarus;
• First landing on Lili;
• First landing on Tarsiss.

Is each of the above a separate objective

eg  I have a craft headed for a planet and moon system.   My craft will complete the "first orbit" and "first landing" objectives.  If the landing is on Icarus can I also claim "First landing on Icarus" ?  or is that a third objective, and so I need to send another craft to complete that objective?

Also a craft goes to Lili, and claims the "rover" objective.  Is "First landing on Lili;" a second separate objective?

 

 

[jimmymcgoochie]

Clarifying the objectives around "have X probes in orbit of X bodies"-  they must be separate craft, each orbiting a different planet or moon, and all in orbit at the time the objective is claimed. You will need to launch at least X craft to complete these objectives, and remember not to exceed the active missions limits (if you sent a cluster of probes on the same rocket to a planet and its moons, that's one active mission; decouple a probe and now there are two separate crafts and so two separate missions until that probe has reached orbit of its target body.

Can you all report any progress made since your last reports? I'll try to post a league table of sorts but I need everyone's data for that.

[jimmymcgoochie]

On 9/23/2021 at 5:27 AM, jinnantonix said:

Hi @jimmymcgoochie, another rules question:
 

1.

• First interplanetary flyby of another planet;
• First interplanetary orbit;
• First interplanetary landing;
• First interplanetary rover- must visit three biomes and gather scientific data from each;

I have two active craft heading each to different planet/moon system.  So the below is completed in order:

• Craft A completes the fly-by, then goes into orbit (but does not claim this as an objective)
• Craft B completes the orbit objective
• Craft A  completes the landing objective
• Craft B  completed the rover objective.

OK?

In principle, yes- but depending on how long those missions take, you could be losing time waiting for the second mission to arrive.

On 9/23/2021 at 5:27 AM, jinnantonix said:

2.

• First to put probes in orbit of five planets and/or moons (beyond Gael’s SOI);

Is the placing of each probe  around a planet/moon considered to be a separate objective?

e.g.  I have a craft headed for a planet and moon system.   My craft will complete the "first orbit" and "first landing" objectives.  At the end of the mission there will be probes around both the planet and the moon.  Do I need to do anything else to claim "probes in orbit of [two] planets and/or moons"?

The objective is really "have five separate probes in orbit of five separate planets and/or moons"- they all need to be in orbit at the time you claim the objective completed so a landed probe won't count. I'm going to relax the rules slightly here and say that you can count any probes towards this objective, even those that have already completed two objectives earlier, rather than insisting on five brand new probes.

On 9/23/2021 at 5:27 AM, jinnantonix said:

3.

And one of:

• First landing on Icarus;
• First landing on Lili;
• First landing on Tarsiss.

Is each of the above a separate objective

eg  I have a craft headed for a planet and moon system.   My craft will complete the "first orbit" and "first landing" objectives.  If the landing is on Icarus can I also claim "First landing on Icarus" ?  or is that a third objective, and so I need to send another craft to complete that objective?

Also a craft goes to Lili, and claims the "rover" objective.  Is "First landing on Lili;" a second separate objective?

Each of these is a separate objective. You can send a single lander or rover to complete a first landing or rover objective as well as one of these three landings, but since that would be out of sequence you'd have to wait until all the preceding objectives were completed before claiming the Icarus/Lili/Tarsiss landing, leaving you with one active mission that isn't doing anything which will limit what else you can do and potentially slow you down. I'd suggest you pick different targets for at least the first flyby, orbit and landing objectives so you can launch more orbiters for the "five orbiters" objective.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, I've been away for a while with limited access to the forums and didn't see the notification.

[jinnantonix]

OK, so basically if you send a craft to a planet moon, if you decouple the craft, it becomes two active craft.  This contradicts your rule that allows a single craft can split Apollo-style and  still be considered one active craft.  I think you can have either one rule or the other, but otherwise how do you define "Apollo-style"?

Edit:  The important rule clarification is this:  Once an orbiter is in orbit around its target planet/moon, it is no longer active.  So a single craft is in orbit around (say ) Icarus, if it decouples into an orbiter and lander, the orbiter is not active, the lander is active, so it is still a single active craft.

Also, once a lander has reached an objective on Lili, Icarus and Tarssis, then it is not an active craft any more.  However lander objectives must be in order, so the early lander objective cannot contribute to the later requirement for a Lili/Icarus/Tarssis lander.

Please correct me if I have misunderstood.

Edited September 30, 2021 by jinnantonix

[jinnantonix]

7 hours ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

if you sent a cluster of probes on the same rocket to a planet and its moons, that's one active mission; decouple a probe and now there are two separate crafts and so two separate missions until that probe has reached orbit of its target body.

However if your single active craft reaches orbit of the planet/moon, and THEN it decouples into an orbiter and lander (ie Apollo-style), which according to the rules is a single active craft.

Edit:  I just noticed you have the caveat that "Apollo-style" is only for crewed missions.

So  all good, I'll just have to rethink the strategy for Phase 2.

 

Edited September 30, 2021 by jinnantonix

[jinnantonix]

Phase 2: New Horizons

 

MISSION 1:  Icaris Probe 1.   Y1 D44 01:54:08  - Y1 D152 05:23:40

• First interplanetary flyby of another planet; Completed Y1 D152 05:21:03
• First interplanetary orbit;  Completed Y1 D152 05:23:40

Spoiler

Icarus Probe 1 launched. 

Standard fairing deployed.

 

Solar panels and HG-55 antenna deployed

 

Trans Icarus injection.  3 x Terrier engines with 6 drop tanks.

 

Icarus Fly-by.   Completed Y1 D152 05:21:03

 

Icarus orbit achieved.  Completed Y1 D152 05:23:40

 

Icarus probe 1 scanner deployed in polar orbit for collecting orbital science.  After collection a few years, the probe can land on Icarus to collect science, however do to the orientation of the scanner (a silly design mistake), the craft will not be able to land upright, and hop across biomes as originally intended.

 

 

MISSION 2:  Thalia/Eta Probe 1 Y1 D46 03:23:22  -  Y1 D205 01:05:04

• First interplanetary landing;   Completed Y1 D205 00:35:50
• First interplanetary rover- must visit three biomes and gather scientific data from each;   Completed Y1 D205 01:05:04

 

Spoiler

Thalia Probe 1 with Eta/Lander is launched

 

Nice

Final stage

 

Fairing deployed

Solar panels and HG-55 antennas deployed.  

Due to insufficient science points I was unable to lock the tech tree to get the RA-15 relay, so each craft component has its own long range antenna.

 

 

 

Arriving at Thalia, using Oberth to decelerate into orbit, and then transit to Eta orbit

 

Entering Eta orbit.

 

Eta Rover is deployed, and uses a Spark engine and Oscar-B tanks to land.

 

First landing:  Completed Y1 D205 00:35:50

 

Biome hopping using the Spark , collecting science.

 

Finally the Rover returns science from the third biome on Eta .   Completed Y1 D205 01:05:04

 

The Eta Scanner Probe detaches for Eta long term orbital science collection.

 

Thalia Probe goes to Thalia polar orbit for collecting long term orbital science collection.

 

 

 MISSION 3: Icarus Probe 2   Y1 D213 02:26:29  - Y1 D338 02:40:28

First landing on Icarus;  Completed Y1 D338 02:40:28

 

Spoiler

This mission ams to land a biome hopper on Icarus.  It  was launched after Mission 4, and completed before mission 4 and Phase completion.

Note the new NERVA nuclear engineand liquid fuel drop tanks, providing considerably more delta-V

 

Insertion at Icarus

 

Beautiful planet

 

Relay and scanner left in orbit, allowing a lower mass surface probe.

 

The Final stage nuclear engine was useful in deorbit burn and deceleration at the surface, but could not land on the uneven terrain, so was ejected last minute and the probe landed on it's Spark engine

 

Probe landed on Icarus Y1 D338 02:40:28
The probe had over 2000 m/ of dV, so was able to hop to four biomes gathering science before having a minor crash which meant it could not fly.  It remains in "Spinous Lamina" collecting long term seismic and gravity science.

 

 

MISSION 4:  Tellumo and Lili Orbiter/Lander   Y1 D211 01:51:17 - Y1 D354 01:52:37

• First to put five probes in orbit of five (unique) planets and/or moons (beyond Gael’s SOI) at the same time- this means five different crafts each orbiting a different celestial body,
  can include craft that completed first interplanetary orbit; 

Orbiting of Icarus, Thalia, Eta, Tellumo and Lili Completed  Completed Y1 D354 01:52:37
Probe landed on Icarus Completed Y1 D338 02:40:28

Spoiler

Launch.

Insertion at Tellumo.  An additional 6000 m/s of dV was expended reducing the Gael-Tellumo transit time.

 

Tellumo Orbiter is decoupled in polar orbit

The Tellumo / Lili Orbiter inserts gradually into an equatorial orbit  to match Lili orbit.  Shown here decoupling the nuclear engine.

Rendezvous with Lili

 

Going to polar orbit

Due to a minor design error where the orbiter does not have solar power,  my plan is to leave the orbiter and lander coupled and in orbit collecting science.  At a later time (during Phase 3) I will land on Lili and biome hop collecting all the science.

 

Meanwhile the Tellumo Orbiter uses a few aerobrakes to reach close polar orbit.  There is enough delta-V to adjust the orbit to collect scanner, resource, gravity and upper atmosphere science over a period of years.

 

 

 

[jinnantonix]

Phase 3 rules question:

• First space station around Gael- must have at least six (internal!) seats, launched empty and then complete an orbit with at least two crew aboard to complete this objective;

Can I do a single launch which includes both a space station (empty) and a return capsule (crewed)?  Or do the crew need to launch on a completely separate launch to orbit and rendezvous with the space station?

 

 

[jimmymcgoochie]

5 hours ago, jinnantonix said:

Phase 3 rules question:

• First space station around Gael- must have at least six (internal!) seats, launched empty and then complete an orbit with at least two crew aboard to complete this objective;

Can I do a single launch which includes both a space station (empty) and a return capsule (crewed)?  Or do the crew need to launch on a completely separate launch to orbit and rendezvous with the space station?

 

 

Crew must be launched separately, on a different launch vehicle.

[Staticalliam7]

No! Restock, my beloved!

[jinnantonix]

Phase 3 rules question:

I have completed the landing on Iota, and the crew is in orbit.  (Craft no longer active).  I send the Iota Space station to Iota orbit.  Can I use the crew that is already in orbit around Iota to crew the space station and complete that requirement?

[jimmymcgoochie]

16 minutes ago, jinnantonix said:

Phase 3 rules question:

I have completed the landing on Iota, and the crew is in orbit.  (Craft no longer active).  I send the Iota Space station to Iota orbit.  Can I use the crew that is already in orbit around Iota to crew the space station and complete that requirement?

I don’t seem to have any rules specifically forbidding this, so looks like it’s OK .

[jimmymcgoochie]

@Spaceman.Spiff@Selective Genius @minerbat @GuessingEveryDay @Lewie Can I get a status report?