If Knowledge Is Power Then Could This Cause Science Breakthroughs?

[SunlitZelkova]

20 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

The 'usual' ones.

Won't these modified humans have the same problems too?

They aren't going to be psychic cultists. One modified human thinks the Dyson sphere should be built this way, one thinks it should be built another. Then the project's resources get split. Further conflicts over funding and status occur.

The project is so heavily delayed and mired by issues it may have well been done by regular humans.

13 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

My point is that 'instinct' may not exist.  There is a whole hell of a lot of bias in the early literature about it. 

Do read the article 

+1

Last time I checked, when an infant of any animal that requires some form of parenting- rodent, bird, human- gets abandoned, it doesn't "do instinctual survival stuff" sans the parent and live, it just gets killed.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

@Spacescifi  Let me expand on something else you touched on - and while I could go all scifi with a 'Generation Ship', we don't need to. 

Posit an egalitarian multi-hundred-billionaire.  She decides to find a large island in a tax friendly tropical nation and buys all of the land - moving the locals to nice places wherever they want to go.  The island is large enough to sustain a population of 40,000 people. 

Next she moves all her businesses to the island and invites anyone who meets certain criteria to move to the island, where she will employ them for life (along with providing schools for children, theaters, shops etc. - everything a modern person might want) and grant a retirement. People may come and go at will.  Criteria are simple: be tall (women above 5'8", men above 6'1") and have a minimum IQ of 130.  Anyone who meets the criteria will get job training into an industry she owns or may work in the supporting services (restaurants, book stores, medical, you name it). 

She sets up the laws of the island to be egalitarian.  Only adults meeting the criteria may live there - so children raised on the island who don't, upon reaching adulthood are relocated anywhere in the world with a scholarship and a stipend.  But any child raised there who does, may remain upon reaching adulthood and any non resident who meets the criteria may emigrate there. 

Everything is voluntary. 

 

 

What do you think the population of this island looks like after several generations? 

Edited February 15, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Hint: Generally, tall and smart.

Also... scatter the residents after several generations and you will see regression towards the mean in subsequent generations.

Edited February 15, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Spacescifi]

5 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

@Spacescifi  Let me expand on something else you touched on - and while I could go all scifi with a 'Generation Ship', we don't need to. 

Posit an egalitarian multi-hundred-billionaire.  She decides to find a large island in a tax friendly tropical nation and buys all of the land - moving the locals to nice places wherever they want to go.  The island is large enough to sustain a population of 40,000 people. 

Next she moves all her businesses to the island and invites anyone who meets certain criteria to move to the island, where she will employ them for life (along with providing schools for children, theaters, shops etc. - everything a modern person might want) and grant a retirement. People may come and go at will.  Criteria are simple: be tall (women above 5'8", men above 6'1") and have a minimum IQ of 130.  Anyone who meets the criteria will get job training into an industry she owns or may work in the supporting services (restaurants, book stores, medical, you name it). 

She sets up the laws of the island to be egalitarian.  Only adults meeting the criteria may live there - so children raised on the island who don't, upon reaching adulthood are relocated anywhere in the world with a scholarship and a stipend.  But any child raised there who does, may remain upon reaching adulthood and any non resident who meets the criteria may emigrate there. 

Everything is voluntary. 

 

 

What do you think the population of this island looks like after several generations? 

 

Do they have their own military and security force?

Because without it I guarantee you they won't last long.

 

Civilizations.... any at all that last do so because they have 'teeth'.

Sooner or later every civilization faces an existential crisis where they will either fly or fall.

The USA's could be considered the civil war.... which had it gone differently the USA as we know it would not exist.

 

So beyond my ignorance of the population in a few hundred years, I can say based on past experience that without paying in blood, sweat, and tears.... even the utopia will fall... from within or without.

There will be struggle. There will be conflict. There will be blood.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

18 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

 

Do they have their own military and security force?

Because without it I guarantee you they won't last long.

 

Civilizations.... any at all that last do so because they have 'teeth'.

Sooner or later every civilization faces an existential crisis where they will either fly or fall.

The USA's could be considered the civil war.... which had it gone differently the USA as we know it would not exist.

 

So beyond my ignorance of the population in a few hundred years, I can say based on past experience that without paying in blood, sweat, and tears.... even the utopia will fall... from within or without.

There will be struggle. There will be conflict. There will be blood.

You're missing the point.

[Spacescifi]

7 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

You're missing the point.

Lemme guess... the OP is irrelavent because your scenario accomplishes the same exact thing.... more realistically and cheaper too by comparision?

Even so.... that really kills the scifi fun does it not?

Nevermind that trying that IRL would not fly.... not with current culture. Businesses lose business for far less than your proposition.

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 minute ago, Spacescifi said:

Lemme guess... the OP is irrelavent because your scenario accomplishes the same exact thing

I've tried to answer on point. 

Quote

learned knowledge/skills>inherent knowledge

Quote

My point is that 'instinct' may not exist.

As have others.

The subsequent scenario I listed was in response to something you wrote later: 

Quote

 

Humans do not inherit genetic skill memory like the animals do.

You cannpt breed two geniuses together and expect a long line of Einsteins if you keep it up.

Yet with animals.... dogs for example... you can literally breed for personality traits!

Humans are not that way... and any one who posits otherwise would quickly run afoul of forum rules.

 

Again - on point. 

• Heritable traits are heritable.
• Genetic Skill / Memory (instinct) likely does not exist

 

[Spacescifi]

Just now, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I've tried to answer on point. 

As have others.

The subsequent scenario I listed was in response to something you wrote later: 

Again - on point. 

• Heritable traits are heritable.
• Genetic Skill / Memory (instinct) likely does not exist

 

 

Does not change the OP though.

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

5 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

 

Does not change the OP though.

 

But your OP is, essentially, 'What happens to people with free and open access to all human knowledge through the internet?'

Isn't it?  

Except that instead of a phone, they've just gotten it downloaded into the wetware.

I will suggest that, as both a carpenter and a marksman, there is a whole heck of a lot of difference between reading about a thing and learning how to do a thing.  In the output.

Edited February 15, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Spacescifi]

17 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

But your OP is, essentially, 'What happens to people with free and open access to all human knowledge through the internet?'

Isn't it?  

Except that instead of a phone, they've just gotten it downloaded into the wetware.

I will suggest that, as both a carpenter and a marksman, there is a whole heck of a lot of difference between reading about a thing and learning how to do a thing.  In the output.

 

Of course there is...... which is why the process goes further than mere knowledge into application.

No knowledge comes from a vacuum though, so all skill knowledge they get is from cloned memories taken from real people.

The superminds are not clones, but they do retain the skill memories that have been cloned and backed up on 'wetware'.

 

Imagine if you will.... bio-computing. No chips... cells. A living computer to process and storie memories.... instead of all the extraneous stuff the usual human brain does that is more concerned with supporting a lifeform.

 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Spacescifi

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Criteria are simple: be tall (women above 5'8", men above 6'1") and have a minimum IQ of 130

The Delft University campus?

4 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Only adults meeting the criteria may live there - so children raised on the island who don't, upon reaching adulthood are relocated anywhere in the world with a scholarship and a stipend. 

Thrown into sea. For better drama.

4 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Hint: Generally, tall and smart.

Said @JoeSchmuckatelli, looking at mirror.

4 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Do they have their own military and security force?

Because without it I guarantee you they won't last long.

Does Monaco have?

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

6 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

looking at mirror

We all have our biases! 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

3 hours ago, simonbellfi said:

I think the answer is quite yes. But depending on what science you are talking about. For example, breakthroughs in mathematics are poorly predictable.

What you are describing is quite different. 

Breakthroughs in mathematics are often environmental (to whit: the environment is 'primed', meaning a combination of factors, including prior work / foundational mathematics seeding the knowledge, a talented person and a concurrent need).  Newton and Leibniz are credited with Calculus - both men were presented with mathematical problems for which the existing maths could not provide ready answers, and they had the time and talent to discover something new.  So to say that because Newton or Leibniz were good at maths, to expect their decendants to have some math talent is fair, but to say because they were pioneers that their decendants should also be pioneers is not.

Math and language skills are heritable:

Quote

While mathematics and reading ability are known to run in families, the complex system of genes affecting these traits is largely unknown. The finding deepens scientists' understanding of how nature and nurture interact, highlighting the important role that a child's learning environment may have on the development of reading and mathematics skills, and the complex, shared genetic basis of these cognitive traits.

Same genes drive mathematics and reading ability -- ScienceDaily

Quote

We conclude that about two thirds of the differences among children in their literacy and numeracy in the early school years can be explained by genetic differences

Same genes drive mathematics and reading ability -- ScienceDaily

 

Take for instance the number of Nobels awarded to members of the same family.  Certainly not every member of the family was so talented, but in many families, the talent combined with opportunity for these coincidences to occur.

10 Nobel Prize Winning Families In Science (wondersofphysics.com)

Again - winning a Nobel does not, necessarily correlate with an offspring or relative being likely to win a Nobel... but the underlying ability; the numeric and linguistic skills (which are heritable), combined with education, propensity, inclination and environmental support can come together in such a way that these happy coincidences are slightly less coincidental than statistics alone would suggest.

Edited February 15, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli