Unity and IronSource merge

[Pixophir]

Unity Game Engine and IronSource announce >4b$ merger.

https://blog.unity.com/news/welcome-ironsource

The thing to think about, since IronSource specializes in online monetization and adware, and shady doings close if not over the border to malware, that one may want (or not) to look very thoroughly before installing any Unity based game, independently of how good it may be. If there's the slightest suspicion (and currently there is), I personally and sadly won't install KSP or KSP2 any more. Just because gaming is gaming and I pay already with money to rent a game for a time.

Commentary on PC Gamer:

https://www.pcgamer.com/unity-is-merging-with-a-company-who-made-a-malware-installer/

Other voices:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/07/unity-to-merge-with-ironsource-with-a-buzzword-salad-press-release/

https://www.gamedeveloper.com/culture/why-is-unity-s-merger-with-ironsource-angering-developers

 

Unity stocks didn't react well, for now:

https://investors.unity.com/stock-information/default.aspx

 

Edited July 15, 2022 by Pixophir

[DeadJohn]

This is troubling for KSP2 because they are too far along to change game engines.

Unity didn't spend a reported $4.4 Billion unless they planned to insert IronSource's stuff into a lot of places. IronSource concepts slow everything down, make unwanted changes to our PCs, weaken security, and/or generate unwanted network traffic.

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

A heavy sigh just totally does not reflect how annoying I find this.  Especially with the recent news that GPU tracking is being used to bypass privacy settings. 

Like why in the living F would they do that? 

[AlamoVampire]

Im wondering what @Nate Simpson or any other devs have to say on this. If this as alarming as you guys make this out to be then perhaps they should IF THEY ARE ABLE (no clue if they are bound by NDAs or not) to to address such concerns.  Me, I will await official comment before deciding if KSP2 is going to be an investment I will make. But thats just me.

214607172022

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I suspect that anything that might affect Unity in the future is not a danger to a current developer.  Who knows - terms of service might change (Unity demands all developers add a subroutine that mines every game's user data?  (just to make up something obnoxious but possible)) 

Still - I wouldn't worry about a game coming out in a year - but maybe those coming out after the merge is complete and the new business practices in place? 

[AlamoVampire]

Well @JoeSchmuckatelliyou could be right about short term, but if you look back at KSP over the years its engine got upgraded a time or two. If things are as grim as they are being made out to be then it will be an issue. Id still like some kind of comment by Nate or anyone on the dev team on this, if such a comment is possible. As to your “obnoxious” example as you put it, that for me would end any interest I personally have, but, given how prevalent things like VPNs are, I doubt something that extreme would happen, but, as you said, tis possible lol.

233207172022

[Pixophir]

I doubt that the current KSP dev team has anything to comment on this at this stage. They are doing the game, and this probably is beyond their decision anyway. I don't even know if Unity developers can choose to embed an adware functionality into their games or not, or if this is an engine functionality for Unity to squeeze out money with popping up an add for aiming water right before docking or some such :-) There is such a wide variety of possible implications of extending ad-/spy-/whatever-ware to every aspects of game development and gaming. Certainly quite a few people with the right mindset are having dollars in their eyes now.

Now, a few days later and after some reactions, one can search what "Unity CEO Says Devs Who Don’t Want to Bake Monetization in Their Game" to get an image of the mindset. It is repellent to honest developers who want to make good games. This will not make games better, interesting, fresh, challenging, as devs may even decide to just make a cheap stupid shooters or the likes as a transport layer for ads. Already some otherwise unsuccessful game developers in forums seem to think along these lines, but atm this is unclear. It is all about squeezing money at the cost of a general dumbing down.

In the end it may be at the individual gamer to decide based on available information. Installing a Unity game from now on bears the danger of catching a large range of gaming-unrelated ware. Maybe we'll have the a distinction between "Unity games" and "games" in the future, who knows ...

Edited July 18, 2022 by Pixophir

[Nuke]

on one side i think unity is just adapting to modern trends in gaming. on the other side, i don't like modern games all that much with few exceptions (ksp being one of them). also just because unity has these features, i think it will ultimately be up to the studio to use them. needless to say i will be very disappointed if ksp2 goes "to the dark side". 

55 minutes ago, Pixophir said:

In the end it may be at the individual gamer to decide based on available information. Installing a Unity game from now on bears the danger of catching a large range of gaming-unrelated ware. Maybe we'll have the a distinction between "Unity games" and "games" in the future, who knows ...

unfortunately i don't trust gamers to make the correct decisions. they seem to have been a frog in a pot for the last 2 possibly 3 decades, gradually giving into slightly more and more draconian policies. all made more problematic by the fact that many gamers are children and teens who are unaware of what they are giving up in the long term. games that dont respect your time, games that are financially exploitative, don't let you have control over your own saves and force reliance on cloud services, moderation that goes too far, game death when the company unplugs the servers. i dont like supporting a company or franchise i dont trust to not stab me in the back at some point, but so many developers give in to the temptation. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Nuke

[Pixophir]

I hope the studios have their choices on this, but that's less than clear.

What repels me is the divisiveness of that CEO, trying to part the devs into those who submit and obscenely insulting those who just want to make games. This two-partition of a complex world has sadly become a common trend in certain circles, also in other areas. Didn't some NPC once call that Sith thinking :-) ?

Well, it is.

The world is much more colourful than just monetization, and there are other methods to finance a team.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Pixophir

[AlamoVampire]

@Pixophir I just did some digging to find a very specific quote from @Nate Simpson from 2020 which you can see the OP he made in the KSP2 Discussion and look for the pinned thread: Hi Everybody. It will be contained in his first post in said thread. 
 

Here is the quote: I say all this now because it sounds like some people are concerned that this project has changed -- either it's canceled (it's not) or it's going to be a freemium game with microtransactions (it's not), or it'll be debased in some way (it won't be). I want to make super clear that nothing from our original vision for this game has been altered in any way. And I want to be extra, super clear that we've never once gotten any pressure from the publisher or anyone else to change, add, or remove any feature from KSP2. I especially want to call out Michael Cook, our executive producer at Private Division, as somebody who has been supportive of us from day one and who I've seen get visibly giddy during conversations about Z-pinch fusion devices. He's one of us.“

I want to make clear I have bolded and underlined what is most important but have yanked that entire paragraph to avoid the appearance of quote mining as well as pointing out the thread itself for full context. 
 

How this will relate/translate to this merger I know not and will not speculate. Instead I will wait for Nate or other devs to bring light, but, we at least see his pov as publicly stated in 2020.

That said, I await official word and will do my best to avoid speculation.

070507182022

[Pixophir]

Well yeah, but from a player/user viewpoint things have changed with the underlying engine from now on possibly carrying unwanted software and connections with it. I doubt the Kerbals saw this coming in 2020. My thoughts then about KSP were pretty basal: "How can they possibly know that they are going to release in 2 years ?". Turned out they didn't :-)

Guys, don't get me wrong. I love this game (wouldn't be here) even if I don't currently play because I've done everything except returning from Tylo (yes, I am Dres-aware :-)) years ago. And I am looking forward to the new version.

I don't influence nobody, I thought the info is important just as the public discussions show. It will influence my decision, for sure.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Pixophir

[Nuke]

until they do something wrong, private division has done nothing wrong. this is a decision made by a 3rd party. it just may affect the end product in ways outside of their control. i can actually see that causing major lawsuits against unity if they force this on developers. 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I honestly think it will start out as a potential functionality with a ad-based profit sharing for the developer and Unity (if not the GPU / Personal data mining already mentioned).  Potential in that Developers can choose to add the functionality or not. 

So if you are playing Super Modern First Person Spaz Shooter, as you round the corner to shoot RedPlayer in the corner of your eye is a personalized ad for FluffyBunny PJs... All because you watched a FluffyBunny video on Meta yesterday with your daughter. 

However when playing AncientBattleTrolls with your son, an ad for the Convertibles and I'm a spambot, report me. Club for Men would seem anachronistic. 

Edit (Lol!  I used the word for a male pill starting with the letter V and look at the results!) 

Edited July 18, 2022 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[Nuke]

ads keep telling me im losing my hair. i actually think i have more now. that or products i neither want (cloud services) nor can afford (car ads, lol). really the last time i saw an ad for a product i actually use, it was coca cola. at which point, whats the point? i already buy the stuff in absurd quantities. then ads for pharmaceuticals. if i need those im going to wait for my doctor to perscribe the generic, and then never take them. i have strong doubts about the efficacy of advertising. 

[Pixophir]

It is a gigantic bubble, I am sure.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

According to the videos I watch... Apparently I REALLY need a VPN. 

<eyeroll>

[Nuke]

if were being honest, vpns are just a piracy tax. using it to gain access to paid content outside your region doesn't work so well. a lot of websites detect that you are using an ip owned by a vpn provider and lock you out. games in particular as vpns are often used to dodge bans. i couldn't even log on to gmail with my vpn running without some convoluted login scheme. in fact the modern paradigm for using the internet is to announce all your information  if you want in. anonymity indicates that you cannot be trusted. going down the list of legit uses, its really hard to find one. using it for securing public wifi is a legit use case, but you could also roll your own tunnel between you and your home network for free, and you control the encryption keys. if you want to browse anonymously, just use tor.  it also doesn't help that my virus scanner fear mongers that my ip address is showing and that cookies exist, both are just how the internet works. seems they love to blatantly play on the ignorance of the typical tech user to sell them services they don't really need. 

[jonminkun36]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:39 PM, Pixophir said:

It is a gigantic bubble, I am sure.

I cannot but agree.