KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[linuxgurugamer]

2 hours ago, Camacha said:

Upgrading the GPU will likely help little to nothing when it comes to KSP. In other games it might help quite a bit more, depending on the game.

Besides, there is ALWAYS something new coming soon.  At some point you just have to do it.

[Camacha]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Besides, there is ALWAYS something new coming soon.  At some point you just have to do it.

It depends. Yes, there will always be new hardware coming, but buying something when the next generation is just a month away is probably not the best choice. Even just from an economic point of view you are destroying money even faster than you normally do by buying hardware.

Waiting on specific things is not a bad thing either. For instance, I am waiting for Skylake-e to appear. Its predecessor, Broadwell-e, is not even announced or launched yet. Yet I know Intel will go to a new chipset and probably a new socket with this generation. Instead of investing what is already a dead end street, I am holding out until I can get something that has much more future.

[linuxgurugamer]

29 minutes ago, Camacha said:

It depends. Yes, there will always be new hardware coming, but buying something when the next generation is just a month away is probably not the best choice. Even just from an economic point of view you are destroying money even faster than you normally do by buying hardware.

Waiting on specific things is not a bad thing either. For instance, I am waiting for Skylake-e to appear. Its predecessor, Broadwell-e, is not even announced or launched yet. Yet I know Intel will go to a new chipset and probably a new socket with this generation. Instead of investing what is already a dead end street, I am holding out until I can get something that has much more future.

Not argueing with that.  But, regarding the socket, have you ever really upgraded just the CPU?  When I build a computer, while I like the expandability, it doesn't bother me that a particular socket type is not the latest.  First, that means it's a well-proven design, and most bugs have been worked out.  Second, I don't expect to upgrade my cpu without doing the rest of the computer at the same time.  About 6 months ago I actually did do a CPU upgrade, but this was a special case in that I was selling my old cpu to a friend and used the opportunity to get a faster one.  But I really didn't need a faster cpu.  More importantly, the GPU is in most cases (except for KSP) more important to performance than the CPU, and I do upgrade my video one or two times during my computer's lifetime

[Camacha]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Not argueing with that.  But, regarding the socket, have you ever really upgraded just the CPU?

With this system, I might very well. The e-series is getting more cores with every generation and since components are both fairly expensive, and you can never have enough cores for some purposes (rendering, VM's and simulations), it might be interesting to leave the system as is and swap the CPU. If I buy the current generation, I will be stuck on whatever comes out in a month or so. Socket 2011-3 has been around for quite a while and it is to be expected its successor will live longer than the mainstream socket too.

In other cases, specific technologies could be the reason to hold out just a little bit longer. Having a good implementation of NVMe, an M.2 slot or native USB3-sockets can really make a difference in ease of use and performance.

Long story short, waiting for something specific can be very reasonable

Edited March 6, 2016 by Camacha

[KocLobster]

I have built many computers in the past, however my experience with laptops is lacking. I plan to get a very nice gaming laptop in about a month or two's time. I know enough of what I am doing, but I'd love to hear what you guys think of as the best gaming laptops, or what your preferences are when it comes to gaming laptops. My budget is going to be about $1800, so I think that should cover almost all high end systems. It's been quite some time since I built a computer or bought any new parts, and as such I am not 100% on where I will make my purchase. I have always loved Newegg, but I suppose my local BestBuy has high end gaming laptops too. Amazon is probably an option too, but in all likelihood I will go with my favorite, Newegg. Newegg has always done right by me (and everyone I know), they are fast, very cheap and many sales exist, reliable, etc. I can't imagine anyone does better than Newegg, but let me know if times have changed.

Please feel free to voice your opinions; what you think the best graphics card is, which brand of graphics you prefer, how much RAM you prefer, CPU, etc. I plan on running KSP (obviously), but I also sometimes play games like Minecraft (which my current laptop can barely at low graphics- I have a POS w/ integrated Intel HD graphics ), Don't Starve, and other games. Honestly I don't play a lot of AAA titles that require incredibly powerful gaming systems to run at the highest settings. With that said though, if I do end up getting into a AAA title, highly demanding game, I absolutely want to be able to run those games on the highest of graphics settings...and this is why my budget is nearly $2000 (A ton of money for me, I'm poor).

Lastly, thank you for your time and any and all help, suggestions, and support these forums are so well known for. I absolutely love this generous community.

Edited March 12, 2016 by KocLobster

[Elthy]

So i assume you realy, realy want a gaming laptop and we should not try to get you away from that? Fine...

ATM Nvidia is propably your best bet for a GPU in a laptop, their higher efficency does realy matter here. I dont know enough about laptop-gpus to recommend you one, this is an awefull topic since they offer different things under the same name. But what i can tell you: The most important thing about a laptop isnt its hardware, but the barebone. A expensive GPU isnt worth excrements if its throttled back after 2min of operation.

[KocLobster]

8 minutes ago, Elthy said:

So i assume you realy, realy want a gaming laptop and we should not try to get you away from that? Fine...

ATM Nvidia is propably your best bet for a GPU in a laptop, their higher efficency does realy matter here. I dont know enough about laptop-gpus to recommend you one, this is an awefull topic since they offer different things under the same name. But what i can tell you: The most important thing about a laptop isnt its hardware, but the barebone. A expensive GPU isnt worth excrements if its throttled back after 2min of operation.

The reason I really want a laptop is because I'm a full time student and want to continue having a portable computer. I also don't really have a proper desk that I could setup a desktop, and I could end up moving to a new apartment in the next 6-12 months. Small things I suppose, but I would much prefer to have a laptop. I assume that 'you really really want a gaming laptop...' meant as opposed to a desktop? Normally I'd love a desktop and to be able to build the machine myself, but I really need a mobile computer. I could use this crappy laptop for my studies, and get a gaming desktop for gaming I suppose, but I'd much rather prefer it to just be one machine, and to be able to game on the go, if necessary. Gaming laptops these days can be just as powerful as many desktop builds.

I had planned on leaning towards NVidia, always have, but only out of preference, not because of higher efficiency. After that, I have a hard time understanding your post. By barebone, do you mean the motherboard? What exactly do you mean by NVidia being much more efficient than AMD graphics?

Edited March 12, 2016 by KocLobster

[cantab]

Remember that laptop components don't offer the performance of similarly-named desktop counterparts. That said, try for an Intel quad-core CPU with a 980M graphics chip, a good laptop with that kind of hardware will run a desktop close. 970M isn't too bad, but lesser graphics chips really fall off in performance.

[KocLobster]

57 minutes ago, cantab said:

Remember that laptop components don't offer the performance of similarly-named desktop counterparts. That said, try for an Intel quad-core CPU with a 980M graphics chip, a good laptop with that kind of hardware will run a desktop close. 970M isn't too bad, but lesser graphics chips really fall off in performance.

While true, I feel like at this point in technology, laptops can give desktops a very very good run for their money. In my case, I don't need absolute TOP of the line stuff that a laptop wouldn't be able to produce, just top of the line stuff that is very close to desktop performance (like what you mentioned). Thanks for the help!

[Elthy]

With "barebone" i was taling about the "case" of the laptop. Often there is a case which determines stuff like cooling, ports, size and most times also the mainboard. Then the manufacturers install CPU, GPU, RAM, screen-panel, storage in that barebone to mkae it a full laptop. Often you can choose the compnents yourself when ordering, so you are quite flexible regarding your hardware. A good barebone is what you should look for, especialy with good cooling and reasonable port placement.

[Camacha]

23 hours ago, Elthy said:

ATM Nvidia is propably your best bet for a GPU in a laptop, their higher efficency does realy matter here. I dont know enough about laptop-gpus to recommend you one, this is an awefull topic since they offer different things under the same name. But what i can tell you: The most important thing about a laptop isnt its hardware, but the barebone. A expensive GPU isnt worth excrements if its throttled back after 2min of operation.

AMD GPU chips are fine. A relevant temperature difference in laptops has not been shown in any test that I am aware of and certainly not after '2 minutes of operation'. When it comes to APU's, the story is completely different again.

Performance and performance per dollar is also something to take into account - if you are able to afford a bigger GPU, you might en up on top even if you were to be right.

23 hours ago, KocLobster said:

Gaming laptops these days can be just as powerful as many desktop builds.

You are not wrong there, though you need to stretch all the variables to make that happen. Any serious desktop will outpace even very high end laptops. If you build a high performance desktop, there is not a laptop that can even come close. Meanwhile, laptops with serious calculative power are a lot more expensive than a desktop counterpart that will outperform it and, finally, those laptops will generally be huge beasts that barely deserve the moniker portable.

You need to ask yourself whether you really want to walk around with a relatively heavy, expensive and not very portable laptop for the sake of a portable system.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Camacha

[KocLobster]

2 hours ago, Camacha said:

You are not wrong there, though you need to stretch all the variables to make that happen. Any serious desktop will outpace even very high end laptops. If you build a high performance desktop, there is not a laptop that can even come close. Meanwhile, laptops with serious calculative power are a lot more expensive than a desktop counterpart that will outperform it and, finally, those laptops will generally be huge beasts that barely deserve the moniker portable.

You need to ask yourself whether you really want to walk around with a relatively heavy, expensive and not very portable laptop for the sake of a portable system.

I agree with you completely, and you reminded me of some incredibly valid points... shat! I really need to rethink this, maybe I should just get a desktop; I could save a ton of money, I'd end up with an even more powerful computer (at less of a cost too), I would get the enjoyment of playing with hardware and building the system myself (I love doing this)...but I wouldn't be able to bring it with me anywhere, I would need to buy a desk & chair, I wouldn't be able to game on my bed laying down like I always do, and I'd be forced to bring my crappy laptop with me if I needed it outside of my house (which admittedly isn't very often).

I don't know what to even do now >.<

Edited March 13, 2016 by KocLobster

[Spaceception]

My laptop is living on borrowed time )<<< That's why that isn't working for example) and I'm on a tight budget )Since I'm almost 16, and I can't make that much)

I'd also like to be able to buy it on amazon )Although I'll be fine with best buy).

Here's the bare basics of what I want )Minimal of course, except for the price, that's solid):

4 GB ram,

10 GB storage,

Between $160 and $370 dollars,

Decent graphics card )If Possible),

And a HD screen.

Now, I don't really care if it's a gaming computer or not, it just needs to have those attributes above, and I'll be happy.

Thanks and please quote me so I can see your responses.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Spaceception

[Camacha]

25 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

I agree with you completely, and you reminded me of some incredibly valid points... shat! I really need to rethink this, maybe I should just get a desktop; I could save a ton of money, I'd end up with an even more powerful computer (at less of a cost too), I would get the enjoyment of playing with hardware and building the system myself (I love doing this)...but I wouldn't be able to bring it with me anywhere, I would need to buy a desk & chair, I wouldn't be able to game on my bed laying down like I always do, and I'd be forced to bring my crappy laptop with me if I needed it outside of my house (which admittedly isn't very often).

I don't know what to even do now >.<

There is no need to rush. Weigh the pros and cons. Remember: if the choice is not clear, making the wrong decision is not possible, because both options have enough merits to be seriously considered

 

22 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Between $160 and $370 dollars,

Though I understand your limitations, your budget really is very small. You might want to consider expanding it. Cheap laptops almost always have major drawbacks. Around the $600 mark the point is where you can actually get something nice that is not a huge compromise.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of junk being sold when it comes to cheaper laptops. In contrast to desktop systems, you are mostly stuck with what you buy too. There is very little upgrading to be done. Buying something worthwhile the first time is a good idea.

[Spaceception]

Just now, Camacha said:

Though I understand your limitations, your budget really is very small. You might want to consider expanding it. Cheap laptops almost always have major drawbacks. Around the $600 mark the point is where you can actually get something nice that is not a huge compromise.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of junk being sold when it comes to cheaper laptops. In contrast to desktop systems, you are mostly stuck with what you buy too. There is very little upgrading to be done. Buying something worthwhile the first time is a good idea.

Would $460 be like a minimum? I think my computer will die within 3 months, and I need a new computer )That's pretty decent) before then so I can transfer game files.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Spaceception

[Camacha]

1 minute ago, Spaceception said:

Would $460 be like a minimum?

I am not sure I understand your question, though it is important to note that there are no absolute numbers or rules. There is no magic number where laptops suddenly become good. However, as stated before, the cheaper laptops often compromise in many important areas and sometimes in all. Manufacturers often work hard to put nice numbers on the box (Full HD screen! Quad Core! 4 GB GPU!), but fail to mention what they had to sacrifice to get those specifications (for instance, the screen has the right amount of pixels but looks terrible in all other respects, the quad core is slow and actually more like a dual core, the GPU has 4 GB of RAM, but it is very slow DDR3 RAM and the GPU chip itself is about as slow as they get).

To me, it seems like a waste to spend your hard earned money on something that will barely run a modern OS properly. There certainly is no need to go for the most expensive options, but when cash is scarce, it is important to optimize you spendings and get the maximum bang for your buck. Do not overspend, do not underspend - just right.

[Spaceception]

Just now, Camacha said:

I am not sure I understand your question, though it is important to note that there are no absolute numbers or rules. There is no magic number where laptops suddenly become good. However, as stated before, the cheaper laptops often compromise in many important areas and sometimes in all. Manufacturers often work hard to put nice numbers on the box (Full HD screen! Quad Core! 4 GB GPU!), but fail to mention what they had to sacrifice to get those specifications (for instance, the screen has the right amount of pixels but looks terrible in all other respects, the quad core is slow and actually more like a dual core, the GPU has 4 GB of RAM, but it is very slow DDR3 RAM and the GPU chip itself is about as slow as they get).

To me, it seems like a waste to spend your hard earned money on something that will barely run a modern OS properly. There certainly is no need to go for the most expensive options, but when cash is scarce, it is important to optimize you spendings and get the maximum bang for your buck. Do not overspend, do not underspend - just right.

Okay, so what would be your recommendation of what I should by? )With links)

[cantab]

23 hours ago, KocLobster said:

While true, I feel like at this point in technology, laptops can give desktops a very very good run for their money. In my case, I don't need absolute TOP of the line stuff that a laptop wouldn't be able to produce, just top of the line stuff that is very close to desktop performance (like what you mentioned). Thanks for the help!

To clarify, I'm not saying there aren't good laptops. I'm just saying that for example a gaming laptop with a Core i5-6300HQ and a GTX 960M will not even be close in performance to a desktop with a Core i5-6500 and a GTX 960.

[Camacha]

23 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

I think my computer will die within 3 months, and I need a new computer )That's pretty decent) before then so I can transfer game files.

Buy a couple of memory stick to put your files on, put them on online services (though be sure to protect any sensitive data) or store them on family and friend's computers As long as you make sure you have multiple copies spread around, you should be good.

 

13 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Okay, so what would be your recommendation of what I should by? )With links)

It really depends on local availability and specific wishes. If you want to stick close to your budget, I am told that something like this is a decent option. However, I would seriously advise to look for a laptop with 8 GB of RAM and a quicker processor (mainly when it comes to single threaded speed) that does not compromise on other areas too much. That kind of laptop will last you a lot longer.

Dell seems to allow you to configure a couple of things yourself, so you could have a poke around.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Camacha

[Spaceception]

Just now, Camacha said:

Buy a couple of memory stick to put your files on, put them on online services (though be sure to protect any sensitive data) or store them on family and friend's computers As long as you make sure you have multiple copies spread around, you should be good.

 

It really depends on local availability and specific wishes. If you want to stick close to your budget, I am told that something like this is a decent option. However, I would seriously advise to look for a laptop with 8 GB of RAM and a quicker processor (mainly when it comes to single threaded speed) that does not compromise on other areas too much. That kind of laptop will last you a lot longer.

The funny thing is, I've already looked at that one, and it's in my "consideration" pile

Edited March 13, 2016 by Spaceception

[KocLobster]

@Camacha

I appreciate the advice and support. I am kind of leaning towards a desktop now though, I think. Being able to upgrade my system in the future is nice too. I really don't know though, but fortunately I have lots of time to think about it.

1 hour ago, Camacha said:

Though I understand your limitations, your budget really is very small. You might want to consider expanding it. Cheap laptops almost always have major drawbacks. Around the $600 mark the point is where you can actually get something nice that is not a huge compromise.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of junk being sold when it comes to cheaper laptops. In contrast to desktop systems, you are mostly stuck with what you buy too. There is very little upgrading to be done. Buying something worthwhile the first time is a good idea.

To @Spaceception: I absolutely agree with Camacha, he's hit the mark with this one. For a budget that tiny, you won't get a good laptop, and you won't be able to upgrade it.

@cantab

How does that work exactly? If they have the exact same parts, how do they not have essentially the exact same performance? The performance would be the same, it's just the price would be a lot higher for that in a laptop than in a desktop.

[Spaceception]

Just now, KocLobster said:

@Camacha

I appreciate the advice and support. I am kind of leaning towards a desktop now though, I think. Being able to upgrade my system in the future is nice too. I really don't know though, but fortunately I have lots of time to think about it.

To @Spaceception: I absolutely agree with Camacha, he's hit the mark with this one. For a budget that tiny, you won't get a good laptop, and you won't be able to upgrade it.

@cantab

How does that work exactly? If they have the exact same parts, how do they not have essentially the exact same performance? The performance would be the same, it's just the price would be a lot higher for that in a laptop than in a desktop.

I'm not looking to upgrade, or buying high end computers that last for a decade, I'm just looking for something that will be capable of running my games and such for about a year before I can afford something much better

For example, this one will suit my needs just fine:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OD38V2E/ref=psdc_565108_t2_B00VUV0MG0

Also, this is the one I'm using now, and the one above has a more powerful processor at the cost of less storage )Which I don't really care about anyway, who needs 320 GB anyway?) http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S3-391-6046-13-3-Inch-Ultrabook-Windows/dp/B00AH4A950/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1457907739&sr=1-1&keywords=acer+aspire+s3

Edited March 13, 2016 by Spaceception

[Alphasus]

7 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

@Camacha

I appreciate the advice and support. I am kind of leaning towards a desktop now though, I think. Being able to upgrade my system in the future is nice too. I really don't know though, but fortunately I have lots of time to think about it.

To @Spaceception: I absolutely agree with Camacha, he's hit the mark with this one. For a budget that tiny, you won't get a good laptop, and you won't be able to upgrade it.

@cantab

How does that work exactly? If they have the exact same parts, how do they not have essentially the exact same performance? The performance would be the same, it's just the price would be a lot higher for that in a laptop than in a desktop.

@KocLobsterWell, most laptops don't have very good cooling systems. So, components will slow themselves down to stop damage to the laptop. Thus, the perfomance decreases. All thin laptops have this issue.

[Spaceception]

Just now, Alphasus said:

@KocLobsterWell, most laptops don't have very good cooling systems. So, components will slow themselves down to stop damage to the laptop. Thus, the perfomance decreases. All thin laptops have this issue.

I can confirm this, my laptop gets pretty hot when I play KSP demo and US2, or just use it for over 3 hours.

[Alphasus]

10 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

6 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

I'm not looking to upgrade, or buying high end computers that last for a decade, I'm just looking for something that will be capable of running my games and such for about a year before I can afford something much better

For example, this one will suit my needs just fine:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OD38V2E/ref=psdc_565108_t2_B00VUV0MG0

Also, this is the one I'm using now, and the one above has a more powerful processor at the cost of less storage )Which I don't really care about anyway, who needs 320 GB anyway?) http://www.amazon.com/Acer-S3-391-6046-13-3-Inch-Ultrabook-Windows/dp/B00AH4A950/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1457907739&sr=1-1&keywords=acer+aspire+s3

 

@SpaceceptionThat is a chromebook, and the cpu in your current laptop can turbo boost to be FAR faster than whatever the chromebook uses. It also only has 16Gb of storage. KSP is 4 GB or so at minimum, and Universe Sandbox is even larger. You don't have enough storage.