Info about the first patch

[SimonTheSkink]

Yeah I saw this earlier today. It seems like the game is still in good hands. I can tell the devs actually care and were forced to release the game earlier due to the bean counters on the executives side. 

[RocketRockington]

18 minutes ago, SimonTheSkink said:

Yeah I saw this earlier today. It seems like the game is still in good hands. I can tell the devs actually care and were forced to release the game earlier due to the bean counters on the executives side. 

Yeah it was those evil businessmen that only gave them double or triple thier initial budget and let them delay the game over and over, and then forced them to ship it early...despite it being massively late.  There's no way the devs could have known they actually were meant to ship it this time and should have fixed the bugs - that's on the businessmen for giving them so many extensions they just thought they'd have infinite time.

Guys. Seriously.  This is PR spin to make you keep hoping. Nate is a PR shill when he's doing these videos, just like Sean Murray or Chris Roberts. This isn't coming clean.  This is literally the same guy who in 2020, 2021, and 2022 was telling us they're delaying so they can reach a really high quality bar.  Either he was not telling the truth then, or he's not telling the truth now, can't have it both ways. 

I realize they did manage to implement clouds but you don't have to keep your head stuck there.

Edited March 6, 2023 by RocketRockington

[Fullmetal Analyst]

1 minute ago, RocketRockington said:

Yeah it was those evil businessmen that only gave them double or triple thier initial budget and let them delay the game over and over, and then forced them to ship it early...despite it being massively late.  There's no way the devs could have known they actually were meant to ship it this time and should have fixed the bugs - that's on the businessmen for giving them so many extensions they just thought they'd have infinite time.

based

1 minute ago, RocketRockington said:

Guys. Seriously.  This is PR spin to make you keep hoping. Nate is a PR shill when he's doing these videos, just like Sean Murray or Chris Roberts. This isn't coming clean.  I realize they did manage to implement clouds but you don't have to keep your head stuck there.

we will see if they keep their promise when the patch hits i guess 

[Ferio]

Video is bull...  come on... 3 to 5 years in the making, 47 people working on in the team. Delay after delay for a full release date with high quality output.

Bam.. EA... game far far far from finished, billions of bugs.

Seriously.. what the hell happened in these years?  Did they go on vacation 2 out of 3 years?

 

There's no way you can talk this right.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Ferio

[RocketRockington]

Also what happened to these YouTubers.  Guys like Scott Manley, Linuxgurugsmer, and Shadowzone used to tear into KSP for relatively minor problems.  I remember that scathing 'technical debt' video of Shadowzone's.  Nowadays they seem to be far far far more forgiving of glaring problems, though of course not quite as biased as Nate is.

Does an ESA trip really buy that much of someone's integrity?  Or are there additional financial arrangements at work?  I can't fault someone for making a living of course.

[Guest]

I just think they're able to tell the difference between a piece of software near the end of its lifecycle, and a piece of software very, VERY early in its lifecycle!

[mcwaffles2003]

Am I late? 

Spoiler

 

[Dakitess]

It's quite a shame that we don't have proper interview that "put the feet in the dish" as we say in French. Nothing that would be salty and aggressive / rude of course, just a formal interview but that would aim at collecting and answering "real world questions" instead of scratching the surface.

Like... Your game is running at 10 FPS with a 150 parts vessel, using ultra high end hardware. You've insisted a lot about the performance optimization as a core "feature" of KSP2 so, with comparison with KSP1, players are waiting for 600 parts crafts launching at 30 fps, minimum, on a high-end specs machine (not crazy one). It's probably a 10-15 times optimization factor required, is it even possible, where would that come from ?"

Numbers. That's a rough example, but, like, Nate would have the right to ignore / postpone / whatever, it's an Interview, not any kind of torture. But among the questions, some might get answers, hints, etc, as well as global "tone" of the conversation that is not pure communication with always the same questions.

[Steve7893]

In the video, he speaks of "the occasional bug of ship dropping through the surface to the center of bop and out of the kerbol system".

But for me, this isn't just BOP, and it isn't just occasional.   It is every single planet, and every single ship, every single time.    If there are exceptions it is only that if I try this with kerbin, sometimes the ship will sink into the surface and just stick at some point down under it without continuing to drop further.

What I want to do basically, is to land a ship with kerbals somewhere.   Once they are out walking around on the surface, I expect them to stay there.   However, while they might stay there for a short time, by the time I send my next mission out and then go back to the tracking station, the kerbals and ship from the previous mission are all gone.

I can reproduce the dissappearing effect on a single mission much faster......just worked this out and repeated it 3 times this morning.

Take a ship with a single kerbal.   Land on Mun.   Get out, and jetpack away a large distance......as far, say, as the fuel will take you.    Look back and note that you don't see your ship any more.   Check in the tracking station and note that it doesn't show up there either.

I sincerely hope that this is something I am simply not understanding and not doing things right.  As far as I know, the COMM thing is turned off.   But I have caught those settings turning themselves back on under the hood.

Is what I am describing explainable by not having a comm satellite?   Surely not just between Kerbin and the Mun.    But one question just for the sake of understanding, if comms were enabled, and my empty ship were somehow "out of range"  would this make it disappear from the tracking station, and the map view of the planet of another ship in orbit looking for it?

Maybe what he means is that it is occasional in the sense that if you land at one spot, and never leave that spot, and never return to that spot in another ship that sometimes it will remain.    That MIGHT be true from my experience.   But thats really the issue.   I am wanting to "build" in any tiny minimal sense, across multiple missions.    I cannot do that if I cannot "join" a group from a previous mission.

[The Aziz]

Weird.

Video: explains things in peaceful manner

People: FAKE!!!!!111

Guess that's how it is now.

[linuxgurugamer]

7 hours ago, RocketRockington said:

Also what happened to these YouTubers.  Guys like Scott Manley, Linuxgurugsmer, and Shadowzone used to tear into KSP for relatively minor problems.  I remember that scathing 'technical debt' video of Shadowzone's.  Nowadays they seem to be far far far more forgiving of glaring problems, though of course not quite as biased as Nate is.

Does an ESA trip really buy that much of someone's integrity?  Or are there additional financial arrangements at work?  I can't fault someone for making a living of course.

Ummm, First, would be nice if you spelled my name correctly.

Second, neither Shadowzone nor myself were at the ESA event.  So your comment:  "Does an ESA trip really buy that much of someone's integrity?" is totally irrelevant. 

Third, other than a small Patreon account which doesn't get me that much, I have no financial interest in the game.

Fourth, as stated above, many of these issues were publicly visible in the videos for a week before.

 

I've stated my background and experience many times.  Would you be so kind as to tell us what sort of background you have in software development, game development, or if not those, whatever it is you do?  You are running your mouth (figuratively) off, and it really seems that you are just trying to make as much noise as possible. 

I was given a trip 3 years ago to PAXWest for  the initial event back then.  As reported it was a very unfinished product, although they did show us some cool stuff.  We were told they had been working on it for a couple of years (you can go back and watch the original video from Star Theory where they talk about that).  

[snip]

 

Regarding patches, my understanding is that they are using 2 week sprints (a method of managing software development, look up Agile if you want more info).  So I wouldn't expect a patch before Friday, and wouldn't be surprised to not see it until the week after.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Starhawk
Redacted by moderator

[Steve7893]

I suppose that my viewpoint might also be colored a bit by how I play the game.   The things I consider absolutely necessary.   I cannot do those things.  I cannot land a crew on Minmus, and then join them by another crew on another subsequent mission.   The first ship and crew fall through the planet every single time.   Nothing I have tried can achieve any sort of permanence.   No matter what finagling I have tried, sooner or later it disappears or blows up, and that quite soon.   And sometimes, after playing a bit longer, the campaign eventually refuses to load by hanging on the "conics" part of the load.  At which point you have to delete the whole campaign and start a new one, and rebuild all of your rockets.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 minute ago, Steve7893 said:

I suppose that my viewpoint might also be colored a bit by how I play the game.   The things I consider absolutely necessary.   I cannot do those things.  I cannot land a crew on Minmus, and then join them by another crew on another subsequent mission.   The first ship and crew fall through the planet every single time.   Nothing I have tried can achieve any sort of permanence.   No matter what finagling I have tried, sooner or later it disappears or blows up, and that quite soon.   And sometimes, after playing a bit longer, the campaign eventually refuses to load by hanging on the "conics" part of the load.  At which point you have to delete the whole campaign and start a new one, and rebuild all of your rockets.

Just an FYI, are you aware that you can copy and paste vessels between totally different saves?  I did this last night, and while the editor is a bit slow, it did work, you _do_ need to go over the staging very carefully when you do this.  Copy: Ctrl-C   Paste: Ctrl-V

You can even paste it into a text file, since the copied ship is just JSON code.  It's an poor-man's way to share vessels, at least for now

[Steve7893]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

Just an FYI, are you aware that you can copy and paste vessels between totally different saves?  I did this last night, and while the editor is a bit slow, it did work, you _do_ need to go over the staging very carefully when you do this.  Copy: Ctrl-C   Paste: Ctrl-V

You can even paste it into a text file, since the copied ship is just JSON code.  It's an poor-man's way to share vessels, at least for now

Interesting.   Can you somehow do this even when you can't load the source campaign?   i.e. Can I start a new Campaign and then copy and paste a rocket from one that won't load into another one that will?    I'll see if I can figure out how to do that.   Any guidance would be appreciated.

[mcwaffles2003]

6 minutes ago, Steve7893 said:

I suppose that my viewpoint might also be colored a bit by how I play the game.   The things I consider absolutely necessary.   I cannot do those things.  I cannot land a crew on Minmus, and then join them by another crew on another subsequent mission.   The first ship and crew fall through the planet every single time.   Nothing I have tried can achieve any sort of permanence.   No matter what finagling I have tried, sooner or later it disappears or blows up, and that quite soon.   And sometimes, after playing a bit longer, the campaign eventually refuses to load by hanging on the "conics" part of the load.  At which point you have to delete the whole campaign and start a new one, and rebuild all of your rockets.

This is all known by the community and the devs. If the experience is less than enjoyable maybe forget you own the game for two weeks and try it again after the devs first patch which so far has a long list of bug fixes already

[Steve7893]

1 minute ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

This is all known by the community and the devs. If the experience is less than enjoyable maybe forget you own the game for two weeks and try it again after the devs first patch which so far has a long list of bug fixes already

Valid point.   I'm no where near giving up. 

[linuxgurugamer]

3 minutes ago, Steve7893 said:

Interesting.   Can you somehow do this even when you can't load the source campaign?   i.e. Can I start a new Campaign and then copy and paste a rocket from one that won't load into another one that will?    I'll see if I can figure out how to do that.   Any guidance would be appreciated.

Load an earlier save, if you can

[Steve7893]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

Load an earlier save, if you can

Meaning an earlier _campaign_ ?    I've played all of the campaigns until they reach a point where the campaign itself won't load.   Is that what you mean by "save" ?   If I can't load the campaign, I cannot get to any save within it.

[linuxgurugamer]

2 minutes ago, Steve7893 said:

Meaning an earlier _campaign_ ?    I've played all of the campaigns until they reach a point where the campaign itself won't load.   Is that what you mean by "save" ?   If I can't load the campaign, I cannot get to any save within it.

In the same "Campaign", there are a list of saves, you can see the last time it was played.  I'd load the one just before the last saved

[Steve7893]

Just now, linuxgurugamer said:

In the same "Campaign", there are a list of saves, you can see the last time it was played.  I'd load the one just before the last saved

ah ok, Let me see if I can figure that out.  Thanks......

[RayneCloud]

2 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Weird.

Video: explains things in peaceful manner

People: FAKE!!!!!111

Guess that's how it is now.

Yes, that's how it is now. I just block people and move on. It helps.

[Steve7893]

42 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

In the same "Campaign", there are a list of saves, you can see the last time it was played.  I'd load the one just before the last saved

Still working on trying this out, but I had a new interesting experience I wanted to share.   I created a rocket and made it fall through the surface.   But this time I notice that I was able to get into and control that vessel while it was inside of Minmus.   Well, I just turned on my jets and started flying back toward the surface.   I throttled upward until I had a 208m/s upward velocity.   The negative altitude was decreasing, and when I reached the surface, suddenly it stopped, like a fly in amber.    But it is sticking far enough out that I am able to disembark crew.   In a strange sort of way this is a successful mission from what I was trying to achieve.

I wonder if I can work out the details to build upon this.

[Starhawk]

Overlapping threads have been merged.

Also, much off-topic material and an enormous amount of bickering about the development history of the game has been removed.

We know that there are emotions running high amongst many people concerning our beloved video game.  Nonetheless, using every thread to repeat the message you wish to convey is both off-topic and makes the forum less pleasant.

Please stay on the topic of the thread in which you are posting.

Thank you for your understanding,
Forum Moderation Team

[SimonTheSkink]

8 hours ago, RocketRockington said:

Yeah it was those evil businessmen that only gave them double or triple thier initial budget and let them delay the game over and over, and then forced them to ship it early...despite it being massively late.  There's no way the devs could have known they actually were meant to ship it this time and should have fixed the bugs - that's on the businessmen for giving them so many extensions they just thought they'd have infinite time.

Guys. Seriously.  This is PR spin to make you keep hoping. Nate is a PR shill when he's doing these videos, just like Sean Murray or Chris Roberts. This isn't coming clean.  This is literally the same guy who in 2020, 2021, and 2022 was telling us they're delaying so they can reach a really high quality bar.  Either he was not telling the truth then, or he's not telling the truth now, can't have it both ways. 

I realize they did manage to implement clouds but you don't have to keep your head stuck there.

Again, they were trying to make the entire game all at once instead of just releasing it in portions. Making an entire game from scratch is an ordeal to say the least. You have to remember KSP1 took a very long time to come out fully released, because they did it in small chunks. KSP2 was taking the approach of delivering everything on day one, but it took too long so the business team said they wanted it now. They had to scrap everything they had been working on to get the core portion working. 
 

I work professionally in the IT industry for a living, I understand what goes on behind closed doors with this kind of work. I also have a scathing review of this game on Steam because I am angry of how it was when it came out. Believe me, I am skeptical as well about how this will turn out.

[Mitokandria]

Everything I'm seeing about this game is pretty normal for a very early beta or very late alpha. EA is just an open beta test for people willing to "invest" in the game's future.

 

It's ok if people aren't ready to invest in the game's future yet and ok if those who invested decide to back out until the game shows more promise.

 

@Linuxgurugamer do you have a YouTube channel i didn't know about?

Edited March 6, 2023 by Mitokandria