OG UI as an option

[didkodidko]

Hi all,

 I'm in a period with a lot of RSS/RO lately, as KSP2 it turned out to be great disappointment. I'm sure that things will get better but can't help but notice that compared to OG - the UI, saves and parts manager are extra bad, I'm wondering why you had to redo something that is working... So please set option to use OG UI and saves and managers.

You should have focused on new game engine and even if you reused every asset from the one, still it would have been better sequel.

Best,

[The Aziz]

Oh gods please no.

[Periple]

I expect somebody will mod it in eventually

But there’s no way they’ll implement alternative UIs out of the box, it would be a terrible use of their time!

[schlosrat]

Personally, I like the new UI way better, but if you just want to customize the placement of things you can do that with this mod. 

 

2 minutes ago, Periple said:

I expect somebody will mod it in eventually

Yes... Eventually, the UI will be modded... any day now... Feel free to hold your breath, OK done? Now breath in!

[GGG-GoodGuyGreg]

As someone who designs Interfaces, I can see why there is resistance to change, it always happens like this, especially when benefits aren’t present or worth it.

However, I think the real problem is the density (or lack of adjustment of it) of the interface.

The UI we have today is pretty tech demo-ish and I don’t expect it to remain this way. 

If the Gods are willing and the game actually progresses through the entire roadmap, I’m pretty sure the final interface will be changed a lot or will evolve into something very different.
 

I don’t think we’ll ever have a classic interface from the developers, but I do expect the modding community to do it. 

[didkodidko]

Thank you all,

I agree with all of you, first its the waste of space, then it's the big letters, then the pixelated icons and lastly the lack of clarity. I know it's still early and will be eventually made ergonomic, there are also some improvements in vab navigation that's worth it as well as in the interface, but most of it is bad. Bad like tasteless modern vegan meat. 

Just was quite frustrated getting back to KSP2 after glitchless build and mission to Titan in RSS.

 

Best,

[PicoSpace]

15 minutes ago, didkodidko said:

Thank you all,

I agree with all of you, first its the waste of space, then it's the big letters, then the pixelated icons and lastly the lack of clarity. I know it's still early and will be eventually made ergonomic, there are also some improvements in vab navigation that's worth it as well as in the interface, but most of it is bad. Bad like tasteless modern vegan meat. 

Just was quite frustrated getting back to KSP2 after glitchless build and mission to Titan in RSS.

 

Best,

My biggest complaint is how much screen real estate is being used up by the parts manager window. I think the UI could’ve been done more slimmer and hopefully they will move towards that as development continues.

[schlosrat]

4 hours ago, PicoSpace said:

My biggest complaint is how much screen real estate is being used up by the parts manager window. I think the UI could’ve been done more slimmer and hopefully they will move towards that as development continues.

You would not be the only one who finds the parts manager window... sub-par shall we say? For this, there is already a mod, but sadly it's out of date and needs an update. 

https://spacedock.info/mod/3292/Better Parts Manager

@ShadowDev, and news on when you might be updating BPM?

[ShadowDev]

working through all the part modules currently. each one takes some time to do as theres no automatic way to do it, (yet)

V1.3.0 will be coming some time this week hopefully (depends on how much I can focus on it)

V2 will be after and will have an automatic way to do the modules so mods can add their own part modules to it.

[regex]

The classic KSP1 interface, like KSP1 itself, looked ten years old in 2013. I'm pretty happy they left it in the past.

[RocketRockington]

28 minutes ago, regex said:

The classic KSP1 interface, like KSP1 itself, looked ten years old in 2013. I'm pretty happy they left it in the past.

So much better to have a UI that looks like its from the 1980s instead, amiright?

[The Aziz]

As opposed to one from the 1960s, yes.

Are we talking style or layout though?

[MechBFP]

8 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

As opposed to one from the 1960s, yes.

Are we talking style or layout though?

That requires understanding the difference, which they apparently do not.

[Spicat]

Skeuomorphism (what ksp1 UI style is) is a design that was trendy around 2010 but isn't anymore, just look at Iphone evolution. Imo it's horrendous but I get that some people are a bit nostalgic about it.

And about ksp2, I hate when we bring the UI and people are just binary about it like "ksp1 UI is better" and the opposite. Talk about a specific point because there are horrible choices made in ksp1 (like the placement of things) in the same way ksp2 have some (like the parts manager). Let's try to have the best UI, not the exact previous one with its flaws.

The UI changes every single patch, so this UI is definitely not set in stone. (Remember the previous maneuver? A lot better now)

I find it a lot more productive to be precise about things and even find solutions rather than say "ksp2 bad, ksp1 UI better" which is frankly not always true. Actually, some previous topics already made that so go discuss specific points here:

Edited July 26, 2023 by Spicat

[Scarecrow71]

Of all the things to complain about with KSP2, the UI is dead last.  In fact, the only thing I don't like is that there is no overt TWR display.  Other than that, the UI is ok.  Is it perfect?  No.  But it isn't bad.

[AngryBaer]

19 hours ago, didkodidko said:

I'm wondering why you had to redo something that is working

Because a lot of things in the old KSP1 UI weren't necessarily working well either. I found lots of menus had glitches where you had to close one to open another. The fuel level indicators were just sliders. Did you notice you can mess up the the fuel levels when you click and drag the sliders around? That's pretty bad. I didn't like the clutter of the seperate part windows either, I wish they could snap together. Especially after the DLCs it got really weird. Containers didn't display contents correctly. I've more than once messed up my launch windows because I accidentally clicked the "skip to morning" button instead of exiting the menus. I hated how the fairings were built and welcome the new method. Combined translate and rotate work better for me. Not being able to adjust thrust with the mouse without workarounds annoyed me, etc. etc.

KSP1 looks like the Apollo interior, arguably also very cool, but perhaps not actually very modern. 

Obviously the style is very subjective and this is my personal take: I find the old UI kind of ugly compared to the new one. I don't see how KSP1's 1960s early space age analog plastic design looks better, or even newer as some are suggesting.

Current KSP2 feels much closer to the digital monitors of the B747.

The new one is at the very least digital style,  it reminds me of the Star Trek LCARS, which I adore. I love the colors. Console monospace fonts and some pixelated edges don't equal "dated" for me either, it fits with the digital theme. Others may like the older style more, but that means we can't just declare it universal truth that one style is better than the other. It's a matter of taste. Style and layout need to be discussed seperately.

That being said there is a lot to fix in the new one and I agree with most of the functional issues here. The new UI takes up way too much screen real estate with too little customizability. A lot of the contents could be more compact. It's missing a lot of essential data and tweaks like no keyboard numerical input, DV in atmo & vac, symmetry options, maneuver fine tuning, etc. It takes much too long to load. The readability issues were bad and still need to improve after the fixes that were already done.

I'm averse to the idea of just copying too much of an older game just because we are more used to it, there's already too much of the old game in this one. The development focus should be on making something new and better. The "better" part clearly still needing work.

Wait for mods (or make one yourself!) if you really can't stand it.

Edited July 26, 2023 by AngryBaer
changed image based on feedback

[The Aziz]

7 hours ago, MechBFP said:

That requires understanding the difference, which they apparently do not.

I'd made a thread (or two) for that (as in: separate discussions for style and layout), but I'm afraid it would be merged with something else and quickly buried. And keeping that within logical bounds without going hurr durr ui bad, would be impossible anyway.

17 minutes ago, AngryBaer said:

Maybe it's just me but to me KSP2 feels much closer to the SpaceX one.

Unfortunately, it isn't. It was, few times earlier in development, and it's what a lot of people liked. You could probably find a bunch of screenshots from back then.

This is one of the few examples, and aside from obvious lack of tools and some general readability problems, it's a lot easier for the eye. 

No, what we have is what you can find in places like Boeing 747, which, by the way, is flying since the 1980s.

Edited July 26, 2023 by The Aziz

[AngryBaer]

11 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

what we have is what you can find in places like Boeing 747, which, by the way, is flying since the 1980s.

You're totally right about that, but at the risk of being pedantic, there seems to be a bit of a range here too, the first 747 flights seems to have been in the 70s looking like this.

The digital cockpit seems to have appeared in 1989. Alright, technically 80s, Can't argue with that. In any case more modern than KSP1, and in my opinion, prettier.

[Periple]

In my opinion the KSP1 UI is kind of a hot mess. Loads of little windows, some behind right-clicks, and pretty common actions like fuel transfers are really tedious. It's fairly clear to me that it was never really designed as such, it's more like it congealed out of a very long series of having to add controls for increasingly complex things. Mods make it even more cluttered, even if you just use KER and a couple of others. 

The KSP2 UI is a lot more coherent and has clear design intent behind it. However, it's still pretty rough in many places both as a design (like, some things are way too big, or need too many clicks to drill into) and definitely as implemented (some things are flaky or plain don't work). I'm sure it'll evolve along with the EA.

The pixelated aesthetic is a legitimate point of disagreement, you either like it, hate it, or :shrug: it. I'd like to see how the same basic design would look without the pixels. As it is it does remind me of my car's HUD so that's something!

[AngryBaer]

45 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

and aside from obvious lack of tools and some general readability problems, it's a lot easier for the eye.

I'm happy to agree to disagree about that. But you're right that it's much closer to the crew dragon monitors.

[James Kerman]

Some content has been removed, please discuss your thoughts without making things personal.

[The Aziz]

25 minutes ago, Periple said:

I'd like to see how the same basic design would look without the pixels. As it is it does remind me of my car's HUD so that's something!

My poor attempt at it from few months back

 

[Periple]

I like it!

[regex]

[snip]

On the topic of specificity (apparently my take was too simplistic), KSP2's interface wastes a lot of space IMO, things could be much tighter while presenting the same information, leaving much more screen space for the lovely planets, and I've made this point in another UI post. The fonts could use some work as well but the font scaling is about right for me. Overall a much better layout and look than KSP1, which I have never really liked, even if it could use improvement (like most things in any software tbh).

Edited July 26, 2023 by regex
This post has been edited by a member of the moderation team.

[adsii1970]

Several posts have been removed from this thread. As a reminder, the forum guidelines, which we all must agree to as we create a user account to access this forum state:

Forum guideline 2.2d: Insults and threats, stalking, bullying or any other behavior construed to be of a potentially rude, slanderous, accusatory, combative or otherwise harassing nature to/of another person;

Forum guideline 2.2n: Flamebaiting, trolling or any other messages made for the purpose of stirring up and otherwise getting a rise from users;

Just as a reminder, the OP of the post is about the user interface of KSP2, and by extension, it's comparison to KSP1 and other related games and real world examples can be used. It is okay to discuss the merits of your preference and to discuss why you disagree with other's opinions. It is not acceptable to be disrespectful, to troll, or belittle others who have an opinion you disagree with.