What do you think about "For All Mankind" especially it's 4 th season finale?

[Pawelk198604]

What do you think about "For All Mankind" especially it's 4 th season finale? 

[SunlitZelkova]

8 hours ago, Pawelk198604 said:

What do you think about "For All Mankind" especially it's 4 th season finale? 

Well…

Spoiler

It was entertaining. But it’s kind of upsetting that the asteroid didn’t go to Earth. Ed’s statement that “Earth isn’t our home anymore” is pretty dumb considering there’s like 90 people on Mars and 6 billion people on Earth. The workers who wanted to mine the asteroid don’t live there permanently either, they are part of a 2 year tour of service with Helios.

Also this really felt more like a series finale. There is no more space race, everyone is cooperating. The show doesn’t have much room to go to Jupiter or anywhere, because the nations are stuck spending a trillion dollars to mine the asteroid from Mars.

 

[Kerbart]

“Actions have consequences”

Each season I think at the start “this will be the last one I watch” but they manage to come up with fresh story lines and twists so I'll be happy when S5 comes out.

[DDE]

19 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Ed’s statement that “Earth isn’t our home anymore” is pretty dumb considering there’s like 90 people on Mars and 6 billion people on Earth.

It's just a stealth-prequel to The Expanse.

[lajoswinkler]

This show burns slowly and then it ramps up near the end of each season. I love it. One of the best SF works out there.

I was thinking about one detail in the last episode. (spoilers ahead)

Spoiler

When Massey drops the hatch from the engine control panel, it gets very hot super fast and then pushed sideways at an insane speed. If I recall correctly, those engines are using argon plasma, ionized and heated by electricity from uranium fission reactors, right? Sure, there are no radiators anywhere to see, but let's just ignore that for the sake of the argument. Is it possible for a hatch made of something that is probably titanium to get so hot and to be blown away so fast in those plumes? It felt kind of over the top.

 

[turnerjack698]

they tried to fake us out so many times, and i thought i was prepared but i ended up bawling anyway. 

[SunlitZelkova]

7 hours ago, lajoswinkler said:

If I recall correctly, those engines are using argon plasma, ionized and heated by electricity from uranium fission reactors, right?

They never clarified this. They just say "fusion reactor", "ion engines", and "plasma engines".

However, they did clarify that they had a fusion reactor, not fission.

[Kerbart]

I doubt the show aims for scientific accuracy. But it’s similar to The Expanse (same showrunner) in the sense that it wants technology to be realistic and not some magic and handwaving that is limitless. It’s interesting to see it tackles similar themes like greed, suppression and power politics. Just in a different way. After Season 2 I was ready to drop it from my watchlist, but they transformed it into what I think is a really strong TV series,

And I love the redemption arc the Ed Baldwin character went through this season. That was written very well.

[lajoswinkler]

4 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

They never clarified this. They just say "fusion reactor", "ion engines", and "plasma engines".

However, they did clarify that they had a fusion reactor, not fission.

They are mining argon from Mars, purifying it and delivering it to Ranger. For what other purpose could it be used in amounts of hundreds of tonnes if not propellant?

As for the type of nuclear power, I really have to check.

1 hour ago, Kerbart said:

I doubt the show aims for scientific accuracy. But it’s similar to The Expanse (same showrunner) in the sense that it wants technology to be realistic and not some magic and handwaving that is limitless. It’s interesting to see it tackles similar themes like greed, suppression and power politics. Just in a different way. After Season 2 I was ready to drop it from my watchlist, but they transformed it into what I think is a really strong TV series,

And I love the redemption arc the Ed Baldwin character went through this season. That was written very well.

Compared to typical soft SF crap in entertainment industry, this show is superb in how highly accurate it is in terms of science and technology. To ignore it just because it isn't 100 % correct is a common fallacy that happens when something is near perfection (on the contrary, stuff with low accuracy is taken as is), and it diminishes the work of people involved in the project. Of course it aims for scientific accuracy, but sometimes full accuracy would get in the way of the format and optimal storyline length. Typical example is compressing time needed to do some chemical/computational/engineering analysis. Nobody wants the show to be composed of scenes of people yawning for 10 min in front of a computer hooked up to some device.

As for the rest, sometimes I felt the episodes were way too much about social stuff and politics, but I figured out it had to be a production budget problem.

[kerbiloid]

They need argon for Argonian troopers. Argon from Mars gives +10 to angriness.

The fusion reactor produces fus-ions for the ion engine, which turns them into plasmions, because plasma is ions. So, all three terms are correct.

It's normal to save 90 in space, leaving billions on the Earth, because the movie budget allows to hire 90 people, not a billion.

[SunlitZelkova]

17 hours ago, lajoswinkler said:

They are mining argon from Mars, purifying it and delivering it to Ranger. For what other purpose could it be used in amounts of hundreds of tonnes if not propellant?

Oh that’s right. I forgot.

I do clearly remember them in the final episode saying “Ranger’s fusion reactor” though.

[magnemoe]

On 1/14/2024 at 3:50 PM, lajoswinkler said:

Compared to typical soft SF crap in entertainment industry, this show is superb in how highly accurate it is in terms of science and technology. To ignore it just because it isn't 100 % correct is a common fallacy that happens when something is near perfection (on the contrary, stuff with low accuracy is taken as is), and it diminishes the work of people involved in the project. Of course it aims for scientific accuracy, but sometimes full accuracy would get in the way of the format and optimal storyline length. Typical example is compressing time needed to do some chemical/computational/engineering analysis. Nobody wants the show to be composed of scenes of people yawning for 10 min in front of a computer hooked up to some device.

As for the rest, sometimes I felt the episodes were way too much about social stuff and politics, but I figured out it had to be a production budget problem.

This, and not seen it just watched reviews.  And yes its an joke like why its never an issue finding an parking spot downtown, using 20 minutes finding one would be pointless unless used for dialogue. 
True for scientific accuracy and historical accuracy including modern stuff like you can not fire a gun full auto for 10 seconds unless its belt feed. 

[The Aziz]

On 1/12/2024 at 8:33 PM, SunlitZelkova said:

But it’s kind of upsetting that the asteroid didn’t go to Earth. Ed’s statement that “Earth isn’t our home anymore” is pretty dumb considering there’s like 90 people on Mars and 6 billion people on Earth. The workers who wanted to mine the asteroid don’t live there permanently either, they are part of a 2 year tour of service with Helios.

Yeah but Helios workers, Ayesa, and at the end also Margo and Aleida, were right on one thing - those 20 trillion dollars made on mining the asteroid near Earth wouldn't change the life of 7 billion people - it would fill the pockets of already rich people knowing how to make business out of it. What's the benefit of a ton of iridium for an average John living in some remote town in the middle of Nebraska? All the leaders present in the control room were angry only because they now couldn't make a relatively quick buck out of it. And beyond low Earth orbit and the transfer route asteroid-earth there would be no space program. Because it wouldn't be profitable compared to what they had in their neighborhood. So the whole technological advancements they've made in 30 years since the Moon landing, would've been for nothing. And I hope I don't need to remind you that we need an offworld colony if the humanity wants to survive longer than few million years.

I lol'd at illegal immigrants transported to Mars at the end though 

[Nuke]

i was waiting for the last episode and binged over 3 days. i think it was an interesting season. with so many scifi shows failing to meet the mark (especially shows with trek and wars in their names, barring gems like andor and picard s3) its nice to have something thats actually watchable and consistent. 

though really the timetable on fusion is grossly exaggerated. that's a long steep climb and it doesn't matter how active your space program is. we all want one of those little fusion startups to have an idea that's actually viable, but the more i look into those, the more i admire the brute force effort of iter. seems the little guys spend most of their time looking for funding while the big boys are busy installing ginormous coils. i actually think fusion as propulsion is closer since it doesn't need to be breakeven. doing fusion-electric like on the show seems like a roundabout method. you get a better engine just dumping charged particles out the tailpipe. you still need fission or a massive solar array or beamed power or whatever. 

also the notion that you might have fusion powered plasma propulsion capable of changing an astroid's orbit that quickly, why the hell aren't you in the belt doing the belter things. 

Edited January 16 by Nuke

[SunlitZelkova]

7 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Yeah but Helios workers, Ayesa, and at the end also Margo and Aleida, were right on one thing - those 20 trillion dollars made on mining the asteroid near Earth wouldn't change the life of 7 billion people - it would fill the pockets of already rich people knowing how to make business out of it. What's the benefit of a ton of iridium for an average John living in some remote town in the middle of Nebraska? All the leaders present in the control room were angry only because they now couldn't make a relatively quick buck out of it. And beyond low Earth orbit and the transfer route asteroid-earth there would be no space program. Because it wouldn't be profitable compared to what they had in their neighborhood. So the whole technological advancements they've made in 30 years since the Moon landing, would've been for nothing. And I hope I don't need to remind you that we need an offworld colony if the humanity wants to survive longer than few million years.

I lol'd at illegal immigrants transported to Mars at the end though 

I don’t recall Dev or anyone ever saying it wouldn’t change the lives of people, it’s just that there was money to be made in doing so.

Earth society has improved a lot in FAM so to say that it would be all for nothing if the Mars program plateaued is incorrect IMO. It’s like saying Apollo was all for nothing, but a lot of lessons were learned from it in designing rockets and doing lunar flights.

Expansive fallout shelters would be more efficient than a Mars colony for human survival. It would take centuries for a Mars colony to become self sustaining IRL, and what would we do if the asteroid shows up in two decades?

I’m sure in TV land they’ll have one going in just 10 years though.

[The Aziz]

4 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I don’t recall Dev or anyone ever saying it wouldn’t change the lives of people, it’s just that there was money to be made in doing so.

No, but those who did say that it would change the life for people - that was just political fluff. Sure enough, some thousand people would get a cut from working at the site and refineries and whatnot (but let's face it, with Helios being able to change contract agreements at will, it was already questionable), but the rest of the planet? Nah. And that brings me to my second point

4 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Earth society has improved a lot in FAM so to say that it would be all for nothing if the Mars program plateaued is incorrect IMO. It’s like saying Apollo was all for nothing, but a lot of lessons were learned from it in designing rockets and doing lunar flights.

Sure there were sped up technological advancements, like HD videocalls across space, or widely used flat screens and cars that in our timeline appeared over a decade later - in 2003 (just the few I remembered), but on the other hand there's still a very much totalitarian regime in form of Soviets that goes as far as successful attempts at taking over the government by force, not to mention the KGB in full power. So has it really improved?

4 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Expansive fallout shelters would be more efficient than a Mars colony for human survival. It would take centuries for a Mars colony to become self sustaining IRL, and what would we do if the asteroid shows up in two decades?

In a decade they've dug three levels, with two in progress, under martian soil, and have a vast base on the surface, and fuel production facility. And they've built quite a project on the asteroid itself in another decade.

Earth shelters are out of the question for one good reason - we need to expand because sooner or later, we'll run out of non renewable resources and it'll be the end. We need two homes, not just one. Mars is just a first step.

[Pawelk198604]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:46 PM, DDE said:

It's just a stealth-prequel to The Expanse.

I have the same thought! and that stuburn dusters/belters attitude   

But on think i don't understand why they make asteroids stuck on Mars orbit if M-7 wanted that astroid anyway they could just make another correction burn  :-)

[SunlitZelkova]

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

No, but those who did say that it would change the life for people - that was just political fluff. Sure enough, some thousand people would get a cut from working at the site and refineries and whatnot (but let's face it, with Helios being able to change contract agreements at will, it was already questionable), but the rest of the planet? Nah. And that brings me to my second point

I think you are partially right in that there isn't even a market for that much iridium in the first place, but at the same time, we don't know what the demand is like in that world. Electric cars and fusion power plants are widespread. Who knows what else needs iridium? Household appliances? Smart toilets?

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Sure there were sped up technological advancements, like HD videocalls across space, or widely used flat screens and cars that in our timeline appeared over a decade later - in 2003 (just the few I remembered), but on the other hand there's still a very much totalitarian regime in form of Soviets that goes as far as successful attempts at taking over the government by force, not to mention the KGB in full power. So has it really improved?

My point was that FAM's society- at least in the West- has improved a lot compared to our timeline. Climate change being mitigated, social progress, more advanced science and so on.

I suppose from the POV of an "alternate alternate timeline" where the asteroid was sent to Earth, maybe it is possible investment in Mars actually did improve society compared to had it been sent to Earth, and the world suffered because of that. But from the POV of me living in our timeline, it seems well off enough that it doesn't matter if they stop at Mars.

But I guess it is instinct to always try to improve, so it makes sense they would think expanding Mars and going further would be better than putting resources into space. Given how much society improved (again, at least in the West) with a continued Space Race already.

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

In a decade they've dug three levels, with two in progress, under martian soil, and have a vast base on the surface, and fuel production facility. And they've built quite a project on the asteroid itself in another decade.

Earth shelters are out of the question for one good reason - we need to expand because sooner or later, we'll run out of non renewable resources and it'll be the end. We need two homes, not just one. Mars is just a first step.

I was talking about IRL.

I agree with your point that expansion into space is necessary to stave off a "end of resources" scenario, but I still disagree it is useful in preventing extinction from an asteroid impact. It just doesn't make sense to build a pressurized, self-sustaining habitat on another planet when you could just do it underground on Earth.

[Nuke]

10 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

My point was that FAM's society- at least in the West- has improved a lot compared to our timeline. Climate change being mitigated, social progress, more advanced science and so on.

that's actually the least believable part of the show. real change takes time, you literally have to wait for the old guard to die off for new ideas to really take hold. thing about alt histories is that you always wonder what the divergent point was.  it has to be close to the pilot episode because history has a way of accreting. to far away and what you see is completely different and thus unrecognizable. then if the divergent point is close enough then the changes are so subtle its hard to see and difference at all. doing a different decade every season was a brilliant choice though it does make character arcs harder to follow. 

[Pawelk198604]

On 1/13/2024 at 3:46 PM, DDE said:

It's just a stealth-prequel to The Expanse.

LOL i have similar feelings very much Expanse-esque  

 

[corbeau217]

my thoughts on the season plot overall (idk what counts here as a spoiler so ill just spoiler all of it)
 

Spoiler

some of the mistakes and backpeddling on character progression was really jarring but i really enjoy that they're putting time and effort into doing it the way that would be more accurate to science as mentioned before in this thread

what i couldn't get behind is the whole discriminator plot, and the Miles character.
the discriminator and everything surrounding it just felt so painful, that they wouldnt have a single software/computer engineer/cybersecurity person who'd be on board with staying on mars?

I try to put my finger on what I dont like about Miles as a character, but it just keeps coming down to the fact it feels forced that they were able to just happen their way to mars, but then I remember they're in american 10-20 years ago and went through Helios and it makes partial sense. But then the fact they got put on HVAC systems and then no one blinked or bothered to verify that they knew what they were doing and that wasnt even the point of them being there? (it would've been a very uncomfortable plot point but it was really uncomfy to me, they could've done like end of episode, the boss yelling at them with muted audio and music playing then had the next episode them in the bar venting about how they got found out and are now stuck with diagnostics bc of their contract keeping them on mars or something)

the backpeddling of the character progression i didn't like was mostly surrounding Ed, and Danielle. I totally get Aleida's plot and I loved it so much because it was so real. Margo to come full circle and finding themselves in a similar position to their mentor, repeating the cycle was so beautiful too.
Ed though, just blatently ignored all past development and was just painfully uncomfortable. Most of their decisions made sense if it was another clone of their personality before growth, but for them it felt like they'd not want to do that anymore. but now remembering his contraband, it kinda makes sense now? but hiding their shaking for so long and that 0 people said anything the whole time was unbelievably uncomfortable

The grabber being made of nothing but struts made me so uncomfortable though. I get why, (highly important to the plot and helped establish the atmosphere for the season of mistakes by corner cutting/oversight that comes with the numerous moving parts of m7 alliance [too many cooks and all that] ) but it should've been like a demigorgon mouth kinda thing


the bandwidth plot was hilarious, i laughed vry hard about it. it also kinda helped put into a decent metaphore/analogy/tip of the iceberg example of how things were happening at mars now
also the sealed off levels that were just unused was so feature creep/overscope/solving a problem that doesnt exist, that made so much sense ahahaha i loved it so much
I feel like in that situation though, they would've just made use of them as recreation places, or storage, rather than leaving them empty. with the bandwidth issues it kinda makes sense though? maybe their hvac/power/water distribution isnt equiped to handle those levels and that's why they're so empty? (also the fact that they were using so much power on the lower levels and it not tripping a sensor is beyond me. but we cant have everything perfect and thought of or it'd be in development forever )

 

[Iapetus7342]

I love this little (well, not so little as of now) alternate reality show, especially how the showrunners have managed to take conceptual rockets and make them work!