Firespitter propeller plane and helicopter parts v7.1 (May 5th) for KSP 1.0

[mike9606]

Well I searched for a duplicate .dll and there was not, so I'm guess I'm stuck trying clean to see what other mod is fing it up. I don't use steam for KSP so it is a lot easier making duplicates I got 11 KSP all the way back to .22, others with different mod sets. Anyways I tried it on a fresh installation with no other mods and a fresh copy of firespitter from the zip, and still the same problem!

- I ran it in 32 bit and it works fine, I run it in 64 bit and the same problem.

- I extracted a totally clean version straight from the ksp-win64-0-24-0.zip, no patcher updates, put in only the firespitter mod, SAME PROBLEM (no 32 bit to test though without the patcher)

Added what it looks like when it works and when it does not:

http://imgur.com/a/r5UJH

Are you using the v6.3.4 or the 7.0 prerelease? Those are the latest versions, and both seem to work fine in .24.2

[nli2work]

I've found ot how to hide this now, so I'll have to remember to do that for my existing models. The trick is to create a new tag in Unity called Icon_Hidden, and assign it to the object.

http://i.imgur.com/DR4JWaz.png

Ah! I thought that was just for engine fairings. but makes so much sense now I wonder why I never realized it before. "Icon_Hidden" as in not visible in the part Icon. Thanks!

[Snjo]

...

- I ran it in 32 bit and it works fine, I run it in 64 bit and the same problem.

- I extracted a totally clean version straight from the ksp-win64-0-24-0.zip, no patcher updates, put in only the firespitter mod, SAME PROBLEM (no 32 bit to test though without the patcher)

...

I just tested the electric folding propeller in x86 and x64, and they work fine both places, no buggy blur disc. So something else is going on on your end. Also make sure you run KSP 0.24.2, not 0.24.0. I don't know which bugs were fixed, but you generally don't want to debug on a known buggy version.

[Carcharoth]

Hello, I have a question regarding the revolution of V7.

Apparently our aircraft will be "broken" but we can install the v7 and keep the old parts to make the transition without starting from 0.

But I have an important question, about the pre7 version.

Can I start the "migration" to V7 now with pre7? or better wait for the official v7.

Besides Snjo, What do you think of my use of your great mod?

More or less Weird planes, but all real

Thanks

[RuBisCO]

I tried 0.24.2 and 0.24.0, I used v6.3.4, I have not tried 7.0, do you have a link?

I have it working now (just not the folding props which are screwed up in a diffrent way now) by using a .dll from an older version of Firespitter that was for KSP 0.23.5. So I can't use my favorite props until I can figure out what is going on.

[Snjo]

Hello, I have a question regarding the revolution of V7.

Apparently our aircraft will be "broken" but we can install the v7 and keep the old parts to make the transition without starting from 0.

But I have an important question, about the pre7 version.

Can I start the "migration" to V7 now with pre7? or better wait for the official v7.

Besides Snjo, What do you think of my use of your great mod?

More or less Weird planes, but all real

Thanks

I think the v7 part list will be mostly unchanged, but some additional parts may be merged, or sizes changed, so no promises.

I saw some of your videos earlier and was impressed with the creative designs. Although, what the hell is an Ekgdiordi VVD14?

[Carcharoth]

I tried 0.24.2 and 0.24.0, I used v6.3.4, I have not tried 7.0, do you have a link?

I have it working now (just not the folding props which are screwed up in a diffrent way now) by using a .dll from an older version of Firespitter that was for KSP 0.23.5. So I can't use my favorite props until I can figure out what is going on.

https://github.com/snjo/Firespitter/tree/master

V7.0PRE2, until I know.

I think the v7 part list will what the hell is an Ekgdiordi VVD14?

http://i.imgur.com/fF1GQqm.png

Well, apparently you understand Russian XD, Ekgdiordi means nothing, it's just an "aesthetic" way of writing Ekranoplan in Cyrillic characters but only makes sense if the person who is reading it does not know the true meaning of the Cyrillic letters (like crazy Russian hacker or others youtubers). The difference is I rather than a font of "Russian Cyrillic style" have directly used the actual Cyrillic font.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Carcharoth

[RuBisCO]

Yeah that did not fix it, though some of the new propellers animations work.

[Justin Kerbice]

Found an issue with FSairBrake module:

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at FSairBrake.OnStart (StartState state) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part.ModulesOnStart () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

at Part+ .MoveNext () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

(Filename: Line: -1)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at FSairBrake.FixedUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0

by using

targetPartObject = abtrans

where abtrans doesn't exists (I know... I know ). This is at least for the last 0.23.5 compatible version (I'm lost here 7.0pre2 maybe or 6.3pre-something). dll version 7.0.5283.33887 19/06/2014 19h49.

+ the module itself is not (yet) in your new documentation.

And maybe you've not notice one of my old post here, the FS1PE propeller can create lift even with retracted blades, whereas it should not, I think.

[Snjo]

Found an issue with FSairBrake module:

by using

targetPartObject = abtrans

where abtrans doesn't exists (I know... I know ). This is at least for the last 0.23.5 compatible version (I'm lost here 7.0pre2 maybe or 6.3pre-something). dll version 7.0.5283.33887 19/06/2014 19h49.

+ the module itself is not (yet) in your new documentation.

And maybe you've not notice one of my old post here, the FS1PE propeller can create lift even with retracted blades, whereas it should not, I think.

Good to know, extra error protection implemented!

Do you mean the "FS1FPE Folding Electric Propeller"? The only engines with retracting blades are the electric .625m electric propeller and the electric helicopter engine. Isn't it?

[Justin Kerbice]

Good to know, extra error protection implemented!

Do you mean the "FS1FPE Folding Electric Propeller"? The only engines with retracting blades are the electric .625m electric propeller and the electric helicopter engine. Isn't it?

Thanks.

oups my bad, yes, the chopper engines with yellow mark on the end on the blades + yellow arrow on top.

Speaking of it the node on the bottom seems useless (didn't check but I guess allowstack is not set), and surfattach can make it not 100% centered on cylindrical parts (I use to put it on top of batteries or reaction wheel).

[Eskandare]

Hey Snjo, I've been playing with your ver 7 pre release. Good stuff, but I am curious about what causes the helicopter to flip end over end while flying forward, is it caused by blade length or is there a VNE for the helicopter blades? I am using FAR so VNE comes to mind. Also, when using FAR one has to be very careful with speed and maneuvers because the rotor gets destroyed by structural failure .

Another thing, is it possible to put the new hover code in the old engine configs, or other engines? (For example turbine engines for VTOL jet craft) Also the old engines are no longer providing thrust. I'm at max throttle with 100% engine power on the limiter and it barely generates any thrust. What could I do to fix that?

Edited August 3, 2014 by Eskandare
Additional info

[DaMichel]

Dear Snjo, i just wanted to say that the gear alignment tool is among the greatest things i've seen here.

It should be advertised a lot more, or rather actually just advertised. I've just recently seen Nathan mention it in Ferram4's thread. Before i didn't know about it although i've been to the Firespitter site a few times. There is just one mention of it in the changelog on Curse. Therefore i propose to add a screenshot of it in action. Screenshots are always good

edit: Not sure if by my mistake or what, but i had to add my own MM config for stock wheels ...

@PART[SmallGearBay]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = FSwheelAlignment
	}
}

Edited August 3, 2014 by DaMichel

[Darren9]

Thanks.

oups my bad, yes, the chopper engines with yellow mark on the end on the blades + yellow arrow on top.

Speaking of it the node on the bottom seems useless (didn't check but I guess allowstack is not set), and surfattach can make it not 100% centered on cylindrical parts (I use to put it on top of batteries or reaction wheel).

It does snap to other nodes, just not in a direction you may expect. I did wonder if it was a mistake or not when I noticed it.

[Snjo]

Thanks.

oups my bad, yes, the chopper engines with yellow mark on the end on the blades + yellow arrow on top.

Speaking of it the node on the bottom seems useless (didn't check but I guess allowstack is not set), and surfattach can make it not 100% centered on cylindrical parts (I use to put it on top of batteries or reaction wheel).

You should get a perfect surface attach if you press C to go into angle snap mode. At least I've never had any problems with that, unless the part you are attaching to has odd polygons.

Hey Snjo, I've been playing with your ver 7 pre release. Good stuff, but I am curious about what causes the helicopter to flip end over end while flying forward, is it caused by blade length or is there a VNE for the helicopter blades? I am using FAR so VNE comes to mind. Also, when using FAR one has to be very careful with speed and maneuvers because the rotor gets destroyed by structural failure .

Another thing, is it possible to put the new hover code in the old engine configs, or other engines? (For example turbine engines for VTOL jet craft) Also the old engines are no longer providing thrust. I'm at max throttle with 100% engine power on the limiter and it barely generates any thrust. What could I do to fix that?

I'm not sure what you mean by flipping end over end. As with any other helicopter, it is extremely sensitive to the Center of Thrust being over the Center of Mass. You can trim your way out of it if you goof, but not a whole lot. I should add the new hover mechanics to the old stuff as well, I just need to separate it out from the collective code. I also want the old code's cyclic to be independent of the thrust, cause that's just silly. Just need to cheat even more

Dear Snjo, i just wanted to say that the gear alignment tool is among the greatest things i've seen here.

It should be advertised a lot more, or rather actually just advertised. I've just recently seen Nathan mention it in Ferram4's thread. Before i didn't know about it although i've been to the Firespitter site a few times. There is just one mention of it in the changelog on Curse. Therefore i propose to add a screenshot of it in action. Screenshots are always good

edit: Not sure if by my mistake or what, but i had to add my own MM config for stock wheels ...

@PART[SmallGearBay]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = FSwheelAlignment
	}
}

Thank you!

It's strictly a Part module, which means it needs to be added to each part, either by hand, or automated, as you have done. I didn't make it a universal function, both because I don't like reaching into other people's parts and adding code to them, and because of technical reasons which would have made it less stable.

It does snap to other nodes, just not in a direction you may expect. I did wonder if it was a mistake or not when I noticed it.

http://i.imgur.com/LpxZXE6.jpg

Huh! I thought I had tested attaching that thing to the top of an MK1 pod way back, but maybe I done goofed.

[Renousim]

So Snjo, do you plan on making a hollow cargo area and a cargo door tail thing?

[CjStaal]

How do I construct the biplane???? I can't make the wings on the bottom straight. It's weird. Does anyone have a craft file and tutorial????

[Snjo]

So Snjo, do you plan on making a hollow cargo area and a cargo door tail thing?

Well, there is the 3m bomb bay already. Aren't there any rear doors in any other mods? I guess there may only be B9's, which is based on a different shape.

How do I construct the biplane???? I can't make the wings on the bottom straight. It's weird. Does anyone have a craft file and tutorial????

Hover the wing over the lower part of the fuselage and press the WASDQE keys to rotate them. If that's wonky, press C to toggle angle snap and try again.

[Bomber355]

I think you mean the 2.5m bomb bay. (or did I mess up)

Edited August 6, 2014 by Bomber355

[Justin Kerbice]

You should get a perfect surface attach if you press C to go into angle snap mode. At least I've never had any problems with that, unless the part you are attaching to has odd polygons.

Huh! I thought I had tested attaching that thing to the top of an MK1 pod way back, but maybe I done goofed.

usually it snap upside-down by default on 1.25m reaction wheel I put on top of a vessel (I guess y way is -1 instead of 1)

[Shiv]

Hey y'all, anyone have tips for how to get a helicopter to fly? I don't know if it's a problem with 64 bit, a problem with FAR, or just a lack of understanding of how helicopters work on my part, but I can't get even the simplest of them to fly.

Here is a picture of what I think a helicopter in this game should look like to function correctly, but this design doesn't work. I've tried having the center of thrust in front of, directly over, and behind the center of mass and it makes no difference other than how fast it tips over. I've tried it with SAS on and with SAS off: makes no difference. I've tried it with front wings (like an Apache), hind 'wings' (stabilizers on real helicopters), putting control surfaces on the wings, and just a slew of other things. It either pitches over laterally (even with a centered CoM) or tips backwards/forwards and I can never get the rotor to be centered enough. Doesn't seem to respond very much to controls.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Shiv

[Darren9]

^ If you go fast you'll get uneven drag and it'll tip or roll, you can't realy balance that - only more reaction wheels. Also CoM needs to be slightly ahead of the CoT. When you add the tail rotor the CoT moves from the center of the rotor, in flight though it stays at the center of the rotor as the tail rotor is only active for left/right turn. Also on your example as the fuel drains the CoM will move forwards so you'll tip forwards. Apart from that it flies well enough in 32-bit.

EDIT - And see This Post, it looks like Ferram decided to half the power of all air breathers not just jets, that'll play a part, I did wonder why I needed almost full throttle to get airborne.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Darren9

[KotDemopan]

I would like to give some suggestions, mostly for the Bombers.

1: Lets keep in mind what K-17s and Merlin are supposed to be: Bombers. and yet, they feature no bombs, how about making versions of them where they do have bombs? the K-17s(and the gotha bomber) would have external bombs, and the Merlin could have the empty fuel tanks replaced with cargo bays, it would require wing re-arrangement, sure, but still.

2: The Bomber cockpit has transparent windows, doesn't it? and yet, no matter how many kerbals there are, we can't see them through the glass, as if they are phantoms, ghosts, or... phanghosts? it might have not been possible to make kerbals appear in the cockpits if they are in it back then, but now, as we know with the biplane cockpit, it is possible to make kerbals appear inside the cockpit if they are piloting it. Infact, the same could be potentially done with the Fighter and Helicopter cockpits, not just the bomber ones.

3: I feel that the bomber wings clip inside a bit too much, thus, limiting the bombing pontential, maybe make their wings clip inside less, or possibly removing the part of the wing that clips in.

4: Bombing is no easy task, especially if the bomber in question is using cargo bays, as it cannot dive bomb, and lights don't really do much. how about making a function where bombing is made easier by showing a reticle where the bomb could potentially land, or a drop tank that detects i would understand if this isn't possible.

Also, Open Windows is the best feature ever.

Edited August 8, 2014 by KotDemopan

[Snjo]

I would like to give some suggestions, mostly for the Bombers.

1: Lets keep in mind what K-17s and Merlin are supposed to be: Bombers. and yet, they feature no bombs, how about making versions of them where they do have bombs? the K-17s(and the gotha bomber) would have external bombs, and the Merlin could have the empty fuel tanks replaced with cargo bays, it would require wing re-arrangement, sure, but still.

2: The Bomber cockpit has transparent windows, doesn't it? and yet, no matter how many kerbals there are, we can't see them through the glass, as if they are phantoms, ghosts, or... phanghosts? it might have not been possible to make kerbals appear in the cockpits if they are in it back then, but now, as we know with the biplane cockpit, it is possible to make kerbals appear inside the cockpit if they are piloting it. Infact, the same could be potentially done with the Fighter and Helicopter cockpits, not just the bomber ones.

3: I feel that the bomber wings clip inside a bit too much, thus, limiting the bombing pontential, maybe make their wings clip inside less, or possibly removing the part of the wing that clips in.

4: Bombing is no easy task, especially if the bomber in question is using cargo bays, as it cannot dive bomb, and lights don't really do much. how about making a function where bombing is made easier by showing a reticle where the bomb could potentially land, or a drop tank that detects i would understand if this isn't possible.

Also, Open Windows is the best feature ever.

Good feedback!

-I agree with all of it, except I'm not sure it's a good idea to make my own bombs, with a few other mods doing weaponry well already (Like skillful etc). Hopefully those fit well in a bomb bay.

-A fix on the bomber cockpit is on the list, including visible kerbals and more instrumentation.

-Yes, the wing extenders are a bit too deep, also there is a very small double poly mirroring snafu there...

-Bomb sights... Good idea. Must think. Figuring out the fall speed and forward motion should be simple enough, except for the fact that the drag is irregular, which messes with both. But that could be adjusted for by the player perhaps... Make it a bit skill based where you have to do some trial runs with your selected ordnance.

[Justin Kerbice]

I got an idea to add more or less easily swept wings:

using a similar module as FSAirBrake to do almost the same thing as airbrake, but in the opposite way, I mean starting drag would be higher, then decrease with angle (ex: from 5 to 2), + rotation will just be on y axis.

And two questions:

- could it be possible to use FSAirBrake module and keep animated models' constraints, ie: if I made an hydraulic cylinder, it should rotate with airbrake angle but stay attached on both sides by its axles and extend itself, I didn't try this yet and just wish to know what is your thought on this.

- do you think Electric propellers may work on Duna atmosphere ? They don't really need oxygen to work as jet engines and blades should be able to produce lift at least for a few 100s meters but because the way KSP is designed, it doesn't work (no oxygen = vacuum despite atmosphere is there, with atmospherecurve of engine)

Thanks.