[0.90] Magic Smoke Industries Infernal Robotics - 0.19.3

[taniwha]

Perry Apsis: I hope to be able to tackle it soon. I have a few irons in the fire and this particular IR issue doesn't bug me enough to put everything down for it... yet. I think I know what I need to do, though (detect docking events and rejigger IR's joints and the parent/child relations around the joints).

[Tarheel1999]

Perry Apsis: I hope to be able to tackle it soon. I have a few irons in the fire and this particular IR issue doesn't bug me enough to put everything down for it... yet. I think I know what I need to do, though (detect docking events and rejigger IR's joints and the parent/child relations around the joints).

Excellent. When I saw you posted in the IR thread, I was hoping it was about resolving the docking issue. I see it occur even on ships with IR parts not connected to docking parts.

[riocrokite]

Perry Apsis: I hope to be able to tackle it soon. I have a few irons in the fire and this particular IR issue doesn't bug me enough to put everything down for it... yet. I think I know what I need to do, though (detect docking events and rejigger IR's joints and the parent/child relations around the joints).

that would be awesome taniwha, docking ports and IR parts together could let player construct truly awesome modular spaceships

[futrtrubl]

Does the docking issue affect claw type grabbers too? I was hoping to make a Canadarm2 type end effectors docking with grapple fixtures, but a Canadarm with a mini claw would hopefully be ok. Probably not if it's a root issue though.

Ed

[Tarheel1999]

Does the docking issue affect claw type grabbers too? I was hoping to make a Canadarm2 type end effectors docking with grapple fixtures, but a Canadarm with a mini claw would hopefully be ok. Probably not if it's a root issue though.

Ed

It affects parts with the grapple node as well, like the claw, as they are functionally equivalent to docking ports for these purposes.

[Insanitic]

Can anybody explain to me what the famous "creep" bug was all about? I think I still have it in the latest infernal robotics but I'm not really sure.

Here are some pics:

As you can see, the tweakscaled infernal robotics parts drift away from each other, and it makes them look like their floating. All other parts connected to the drifting robotics also float away.

I noticed it doesn't happen right away and I made sure in the VAB that all nodes were connected. It happens throughout my journey to Eve and I noticed time warp (not physics time warp) exacerbates the issue. I noticed that this doesn't happen to non-tweakscaled parts.

Here's one more pic that has REALLY bad creeping between robotic parts.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Insanitic

[Drew Kerman]

Well I still don't know what the problem was but after failing to load another craft file that had other IR parts in it, I decided to just wipe out IR and install a new copy. Now everything seems to be fine. No doubt a corrupt something or other file. Carry on

I've identified an issue with the docking washer in the VAB but I haven't a clue what's causing it:

This happens when I load the craft file. Note the messed up menu border on the left, and the floating staging icon in the lower right. Additionally a generic "vesselName" shows up along with a kerbal icon for a flag. I can highlight but can't select any part on the craft. If I create a new craft, the root part shows up embedded in the ground of the VAB. If I go into the craft file and manually remove the docking washer and load the craft after restarting the game, all is well. Log file <- I loaded the game, went into the VAB, loaded the borked craft, and ALT-F4'd out. Didn't see anything red or yellow show up in the Alt+F2 log window. Tried fiddling around with stuff in the craft file. Tried re-rooting the craft so I wasn't attaching the docking washer to the root part (the monopropellant tank). Neither worked, issue remained.

What's interesting is that I already have a craft of this design orbiting in the game (docking washer atop monoprop tank - the same tank), and when I loaded it up in the flight scene I didn't experience any issues at all. However when I loaded the craft file for it in the VAB, I got the same messed up interface.

(also, Wenk Wenk)

Edited February 21, 2015 by Gaiiden

[JeffreyCor]

I'll see about implementing my own custom TweakScale style feature to IR. All I need is the size and translations to change. I hope it will be an easy fix.

Will your implementation use the same module and parameter format so it can be removed in favor of discrete parts as current? It was a lot of work getting rid of everything to do with tweakscale on IR parts

Another option though might to utilizing the TS like base sizing function that Procedural Fairings has. Unlike everything that has used TW directly, i haven't encountered any problems with PF. It could be something to look into.

Edited February 20, 2015 by JeffreyCor

[p331083]

Was there ever a fix for rotation parts going past rotation limits? Like you set it to 90 but it stops at 91 or 92.

essentially this;

Done.

KSP: 0.25 Mac OS X 10.9.5

Mods: IR 19.2, TS 1.44

Problem: Moving IR parts to their limits results in slight creep either toward the original position (rotational parts) or away from the original position (translational parts). For rotational parts, this issue does not affect 0 increment limits.

Reproduction steps:

1. Build a craft with IR parts
   
2. In the editor, move the parts to their limits (only non-zero limits for rotational parts)
   
3. Move the parts back-and-forth to the limit repeatedly.
   
   • Rotational parts creep toward the original position
     
   • Translational parts creep away from that position
     

Video: download mp4 here

Log: Player.log

Also reproducible with KSP 0.24 with IR 19.1 and TS 1.43. TS isn't necessary for the bug.

Edited February 22, 2015 by p331083

[MK3424]

Comments incomming from people who saw your mod on the showcase...

[Insanitic]

Can anybody explain to me what the famous "creep" bug was all about? I think I still have it in the latest infernal robotics but I'm not really sure.

Here are some pics:

http://s16.postimg.org/glqw7wzmt/Example_1.jpg

http://s1.postimg.org/d5bs21te7/Example_2.jpg

As you can see, the tweakscaled infernal robotics parts drift away from each other, and it makes them look like their floating. All other parts connected to the drifting robotics also float away.

I noticed it doesn't happen right away and I made sure in the VAB that all nodes were connected. It happens throughout my journey to Eve and I noticed time warp (not physics time warp) exacerbates the issue. I noticed that this doesn't happen to non-tweakscaled parts.

Here's one more pic that has REALLY bad creeping between robotic parts.

http://s3.postimg.org/ubeo1sitf/KSP_1_1.jpg

Nevermind, I fixed this drifting problem. I locked ALL robotics parts and it worked perfectly even when tweakscaled.

[Huub]

Question brief: How can I keep fuel lines attached when I move parts?

Explanation: I've created a Karbonite miner/converter with hinges so that it can be loaded on to a booster for launch and then unfold itself in orbit before flying itself to Minmus, landing and beginning its task. (It's a real labour of love because it has cost me a couple of weeks to sort out all of the previous issues along the way. I even generated my first Kraken that would destroy the miner/converter and booster at about 30 km. Anyway, I digress.)

The problem comes because I have to route fuel lines from the Karbonite converter to the LFO tanks or the converter complains about insufficient space, i.e. it can't find any LFO tanks to send stuff to. These fuel lines have to bridge across the main hinges. When I unfold the miner/converter, however, the fuel lines become detached at one end.

I figured someone else here might have run across the same problem. Any ideas?

[techno65535]

Don't think there is a way to do that exactly. You might can try routing the lines to the hinge and then from the hinge to the tank, but don't think that'll work either.

Best thing would probably be to redesign it so that you have at least a small LFO tank in-line with the converter and use a fuel-pump mod (or manually) and pump from there to the other tanks. Goodspeed and TAC would both be able to do that for you.

[Darren9]

Question brief: How can I keep fuel lines attached when I move parts?

Explanation: I've created a Karbonite miner/converter with hinges so that it can be loaded on to a booster for launch and then unfold itself in orbit before flying itself to Minmus, landing and beginning its task. (It's a real labour of love because it has cost me a couple of weeks to sort out all of the previous issues along the way. I even generated my first Kraken that would destroy the miner/converter and booster at about 30 km. Anyway, I digress.)

The problem comes because I have to route fuel lines from the Karbonite converter to the LFO tanks or the converter complains about insufficient space, i.e. it can't find any LFO tanks to send stuff to. These fuel lines have to bridge across the main hinges. When I unfold the miner/converter, however, the fuel lines become detached at one end.

I figured someone else here might have run across the same problem. Any ideas?

They should work, I've made ships that rely on them in the past and just did another test and it seems fine and the fuel line extends or contracts as the joint moves. Is the fuel line being extended beyond it's max length? Or, does it work immediately after you launch one from the hanger but stop later? Could be a Kraken attack.

[Huub]

I'd let you know but the ship file has glitched since this morning. That's the last time I ran KSP and now, not only my latest version, but all the last few versions of the Karbonite miner/converter only seem to have the first half dozen parts in them. Mutter, mutter, mutter...

I'll do some simple tests and work from there. At least I know that it can be done and has been done before. Thanks. :-)

UPDATE:

Well that was a bust. Turns out that, while there is fuel crossfeed across the hinge, the Karbonite converter doesn't know about it. That means that whether or not I can get the fuel lines to work is irrelevant. I guess I'l take this over to the Karbonite thread since it now simply involves Karbonite.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Huub

[protonv]

noob question. How to use the hinge? I can adjust it in VAB but how to control it outside?

[Ziw]

noob question. How to use the hinge? I can adjust it in VAB but how to control it outside?

When you launch your vessel you should see IR button on the toolbar. Press it, and you'll see a window called Servo Control (see some screen shots a couple pages ago for reference).

[jsimmons]

A little off topic what ever happened to the cargo bays from Wolf Aeronautics?

[Ziw]

To Developer(s):

As discussed in KOS thread (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/68089-0-90-kOS-Scriptable-Autopilot-System-v0-16-0-2015-2-20?p=1761407&viewfull=1#post1761407).

Is it possible to add KSPEvents to robotic parts mimicking "move +" and "move -" KSPActions, or even implement proper iterative movements by introducing "move +"/"move -" buttons to move for 1 unit set in Min Increment field?

Reason is that due to recent changes in KOS career limits KSPActions are not accessible to KOS scripts until VAB/SPH are fully upgraded, but the only way to move robotic parts in scripts and not through GUI is via calling to KSPActions, which severely limits early and mid career automation of robotic tasks.

[fatcargo]

Personally i'm a sandox player but i too agree on step motion actions that kOS could use. It reminds me of Stepper motor part that really should be in this pack anyway (robotics without steppers are just weird ).

[Angelo Kerman]

Is there a way to set up a part with IR so that you can turn on a rotation and tell it to keep rotating until you tell it to stop? Can you tell said part to rotate at, say, 36 degrees per second or so?

[Master Tao]

@Angel-125:

Yes, with action groups. You can set an action group to Move + or Move - for a part, which will keep it moving until it hits one of its limits. As far as the speed, you're on your own. Keep adjusting until it makes one revolution every 10 seconds? You can edit the speed in flight, at least.

[Angelo Kerman]

@Angel-125:

Yes, with action groups. You can set an action group to Move + or Move - for a part, which will keep it moving until it hits one of its limits. As far as the speed, you're on your own. Keep adjusting until it makes one revolution every 10 seconds? You can edit the speed in flight, at least.

Interesting. I tried a test with a rotatron and a hitchhiker, and the Move - action group works, but the Move + action group does not. Thanks for the info!

Edit Ok, next question: I found this tutorial on how to make parts for IR on the front page. Does the fixed mesh need to be a single mesh, or can I have a bunch of meshes grouped together that remain fixed?

Edited March 1, 2015 by Angel-125

[Angelo Kerman]

Is there a way to keep the top and bottom nodes from rotating (the fuel tank and cupola remain fixed), and have the rotating section in the middle? Kind of like this:

[Ziw]

You can try to cheat a little bit and rotate the cupola in the opposite direction of the rotating part.