[1.12.*] Deadly Reentry v7.9.0 The Barbie Edition, Aug 5th, 2021

[Svm420]

I am getting radiative flux on parts inside Pfairings again on the latest dll you released. Parts are exploding on the launch pad. Yay Deadly launches are back! ;P

[judorange]

Hi,

Testing with the latest dev builds of DRE(dll from above) and FAR.

I built a simple "ship" and hyperedited it to LKO, with periapsis around 20km.

(parachute)(mk1pod)(FLT200 tank)(FLT200 tank)(1.25m shield)

Tank : - both ConVFlux stay at zero during reentry.

- conDFlux max 0.35-0.7

- skin temp : 280K

Shield : - Up to 1230 Kw

- Skin temp max 1400

PS: The FLT100(=smallTankFlat) needs the same MM patch

edit: same test with a FLT400

Edited May 20, 2015 by judorange
Adding a screenshot

[Starwaster]

I am getting radiative flux on parts inside Pfairings again on the latest dll you released. Parts are exploding on the launch pad. Yay Deadly launches are back! ;P

Can I get a .craft file for that please? And your output_log.txt? (or player.log if Linux / Mac)

And can you reproduce the problem with the dll that I posted above?

@judorange, thanks for the feedback

Edited May 20, 2015 by Starwaster

[xXIndestructibleEVAXx]

Sounds like you're describing the Kerbal X, so I took that ship and duplicated your orbit and reentry parameters.

And I pretty much lost the entire craft.

TPK.

Rocks fall, everyone dies.

And that's with a bug that Nathan says is causing parts to radiate twice as much as they should. Maybe that bug he describes is a factor in your survival but it sure didn't help my guys

How do I fix it?

EDIT: ok, I just did another test, this time with a descent of 115x19, and decoupling the last stage outside of the atmosphere. I also had the temperature colors on. And what was kind of worrying, was that the colors didn't show any significant heating. I came in from the night side, so it went from a deep red to slightly less deep orange, still darker than the shock plasma. And what's more, it got hotter AFTER the plasma disappeared, probably because the sun was rising. it was just a Mk. 1-2 capsule and the blue inline-parachute.

Edited May 20, 2015 by xXIndestructibleEVAXx

[futrtrubl]

How do I fix it?

EDIT: ok, I just did another test, this time with a descent of 115x19, and decoupling the last stage outside of the atmosphere. I also had the temperature colors on. And what was kind of worrying, was that the colors didn't show any significant heating. I came in from the night side, so it went from a deep red to slightly less deep orange, still darker than the shock plasma. And what's more, it got hotter AFTER the plasma disappeared, probably because the sun was rising. it was just a Mk. 1-2 capsule and the blue inline-parachute.

The stock temperature colors may just by looking at the part temperature not skin temperature. And after the plasma stops you will continue to have conduction from skin to internal.

[xXIndestructibleEVAXx]

oh yeah, forgot about skin heating. Still, Starwaster said that from a similar orbit the same ship was destroyed, so I don't know what's going on. And worse, this is the last mod that isn't working, so I'm so close, yet so far.

[Starwaster]

oh yeah, forgot about skin heating. Still, Starwaster said that from a similar orbit the same ship was destroyed, so I don't know what's going on. And worse, this is the last mod that isn't working, so I'm so close, yet so far.

Correct, it does not look at skin temperature. I do have it in mind to at least enable the gauges for skin temp but can't say when that will happen

Now, have you made any changes to any of the thermal settings? How about under difficulty? The mod is affected by that so if you adjusted the difficulty slider then you could have scaled things down inadvertently.

[xXIndestructibleEVAXx]

the only settings I changed was when I made the save, and then I slid it UP to 120%

[Olsson]

I've done several re-entries and not had one fail yet. Most of my ablative is used and sometimes my ships survive even though ablative run out.

Is that supposed to happen or are command pods supposed to be destroyed if ablative is being drained but there's no more ablative?

EDIT: Also is there a way to disable the G-Force handling by this mod? I'm testing how this works together with KeepFit.

[arkie87]

Can someone explain to me why this ship is 'sploding at such low velocities?

It appears that skin temperature is rising quickly even though i'm sub-sonic...

Temp_ext seems a bit high; even using Temp_ext = T0 = T + V^2/(2*Cp) i only arrive at 341 K not 1100 K

Alternatively, maybe there is conduction between skin of SRB's and craft such that fuel tanks splode?

I have not changed any heating parameters. I have DRE and FAR installed. (When installing, both mods come with their own versions of "modular flight integrator". I used the one included with FAR. Was this correct?

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Edited May 21, 2015 by arkie87

[Starwaster]

Can someone explain to me why this ship is 'sploding at such low velocities?

It appears that skin temperature is rising quickly even though i'm sub-sonic...

Temp_ext seems a bit high; even using Temp_ext = T0 = T + V^2/(2*Cp) i only arrive at 341 K not 1100 K

Alternatively, maybe there is conduction between skin of SRB's and craft such that fuel tanks splode?

I have not changed any heating parameters. I have DRE and FAR installed. (When installing, both mods come with their own versions of "modular flight integrator". I used the one included with FAR. Was this correct?

http://imgur.com/a/dY3PW

Try downloading the DeadlyReentry.dll I posted a page or two back and the DeadlyReentry.cfg file that I linked to. That might help a bit.

But you're getting convective flux on a part that in straight DRE (or even stock thermals) would be occluded and there's nothing I can do about that. Maybe the next DRE update will make a difference.... or it might not.

[Starwaster]

I've done several re-entries and not had one fail yet. Most of my ablative is used and sometimes my ships survive even though ablative run out.

Is that supposed to happen or are command pods supposed to be destroyed if ablative is being drained but there's no more ablative?

EDIT: Also is there a way to disable the G-Force handling by this mod? I'm testing how this works together with KeepFit.

Can't say for sure about the first part without knowing how far down you were and how fast you were going. Maybe your pod was through the worst of it when it ran out.

As for the second, I haven't got the UI back up and running as I've been too busy with dealing with questions about why ships are / are not burning up. (Nothing ever changes I guess)

So it's not possible to alter the necessary parameters at this time

[Ser]

Starwaster

There's an issue with radiated heat. Once slowing down on reentry enough to start cooling the Radiation flux reaches about -2000 and heat starts to be carried away at very fast rate, about 10K per second. So it takes only a minute to cool down from 1000K to the "room" temperature. AFAIK there's a limit to how much heat can be radiated by a body IRL and that rate is impossible unless it is put to liquid nitrogen.

Also it seems that heat conduction between a part's skin and its "core" is too low in the last development version because on reentry the skin's temp rises way much faster while the part remains very cool and it even may not take any heat at all. That level of thermal isolation is a dream

Edited May 21, 2015 by Ser

[Wuwuk]

What difficulty (compared with the latest version for 0.90) DRE is configured by default?

[Starwaster]

Starwaster

There's an issue with radiated heat. Once slowing down on reentry enough to start cooling the Radiation flux reaches about -2000 and heat starts to be carried away at very fast rate, about 10K per second. So it takes only a minute to cool down from 1000K to the "room" temperature. AFAIK there's a limit to how much heat can be radiated by a body IRL and that rate is impossible unless it is put to liquid nitrogen.

Also it seems that heat conduction between a part's skin and its "core" is too low in the last development version because on reentry the skin's temp rises way much faster while the part remains very cool and it even may not take any heat at all. That level of thermal isolation is a dream

The issue is that the temperature has been raised to extremely high levels in a single frame and heat radiates at a rate equal to its temperature^4

One of two things should be happening there: Either it should reach equilibrium at a much lower temperature OR it should be exploding depending on whether the equilibrium point is higher or lower than its destruction temperature.

So one of the tasks that I have to complete is to do some sanity checking and pin temperature at a sane level or destroy the part outright

What difficulty (compared with the latest version for 0.90) DRE is configured by default?

There are no difficulty levels like in DRE version 6. Difficulty is scaled by the reentry slider in the stock difficulty menu or by using the thermal debug menu.

[Wuwuk]

There are no difficulty levels like in DRE version 6. Difficulty is scaled by the reentry slider in the stock difficulty menu or by using the thermal debug menu.

i.e. the stock slider (0-120%)?

Cool.

[nuclearping]

Weird. Downloaded latest DRE version yesterday. Just had a (small) Tourist Ship returning from Minmus. And I'm getting heavy reentry effects already at 65.000m (Kerbin, PE set to 37.000m) @ ~3200m/s, starting to shred my ship into pieces until it explodes completely at ~50.000m. Never happened with the old DRE versions in 0.90. Without DRE, stock reentry effects gently start at ~39.000m and end at ~26.000m without anything exploding.

[Ser]

arkie87, I see a little discussion starting here?

"exploding at subsonic speeds" - there's definitely an exaggeration. Sound speed is about 350 m/s. nuclearping speaks of 3200 m/s. That's around 1.5 times faster than normal reentry speed on Kerbin. It's more than logical that he has burnt.

- - - Updated - - -

nuclearping, I think you schoolboys should go and learn to respect the thread's authors instead of starting such a cheap flame here.

[arkie87]

arkie87, I see a little discussion starting here?

"exploding at subsonic speeds" - there's definitely an exaggeration. Sound speed is about 350 m/s. nuclearping speaks of 3200 m/s. That's around 1.5 times faster than normal reentry speed on Kerbin. It's more than logical that he has burnt.

- - - Updated - - -

nuclearping, I think you schoolboys should go and learn to respect the thread's authors instead of starting such a cheap flame here.

Less than a page ago I posted about my craft exploding at subsonic speeds.

And no, it isn't logical that he burned up at 60+ km altitude. Anyone who knows anything about this matter will know that is unrealistic. And that never happened in past versions of DRE

Edited May 21, 2015 by arkie87

[Ser]

I had some extra heating while subsonic too and I think that's wrong. But that's not the case.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Ser

[Olympic1]

The .version file still says it is version 7.0.1 but has to be 7.0.3

nvm, I had an older file that said 7.0.1, I now deleted it

Edited May 21, 2015 by Olympic1

[Starwaster]

The .version file still says it is version 7.0.1 but has to be 7.0.3

nvm, I had an older file that said 7.0.1, I now deleted it

I should have updated that download with the correct version #. Fixed the download now.

[Gryphon]

I really hope everyone would just chill. I think there's some miscommunication here that is accelerating into anger.

nuclearping, I've seen Ser posting lots of really helpful stuff both here and in other threads, so he's not just some troll. I think your real question is, how do I get these tourists back safely. I'd help, but I haven't even been out of low Kerbin orbit yet in KSP 1.0. All I know is too shallow = bad heat, too steep = bad G's. I had a ship burn up during an extended run at 55000m because I made my gravity turn too aggressive, so the atmosphere is definitely there at upper altitudes.

Ser, I don't think nuclearping is complaining that he's exploding, I think he just wants someone to help him understand what is a survivable reentry profile to use with the current DRE, because his current (and previously successful) method isn't working.

arkie87, nuclearping has a whole other problem than you. I hope the suggestion of using the updated build has helped you. Also, what version of FAR are you using? I know there's been plenty of recent discussion of how the previous version of FAR was interacting with DRE. The latest FAR version is named "Ferri," and includes lots of bugfixes (though there's a new issue already identified with at least the Mk2 cargo bay).

[arkie87]

I really hope everyone would just chill. I think there's some miscommunication here that is accelerating into anger.

nuclearping, I've seen Ser posting lots of really helpful stuff both here and in other threads, so he's not just some troll. I think your real question is, how do I get these tourists back safely. I'd help, but I haven't even been out of low Kerbin orbit yet in KSP 1.0. All I know is too shallow = bad heat, too steep = bad G's. I had a ship burn up during an extended run at 55000m because I made my gravity turn too aggressive, so the atmosphere is definitely there at upper altitudes.

Ser, I don't think nuclearping is complaining that he's exploding, I think he just wants someone to help him understand what is a survivable reentry profile to use with the current DRE, because his current (and previously successful) method isn't working.

arkie87, nuclearping has a whole other problem than you. I hope the suggestion of using the updated build has helped you. Also, what version of FAR are you using? I know there's been plenty of recent discussion of how the previous version of FAR was interacting with DRE. The latest FAR version is named "Ferri," and includes lots of bugfixes (though there's a new issue already identified with at least the Mk2 cargo bay).

I like your attitude Gryphon. I am using Ferri (almost positive). I am aware that my problem is different than nuclearping's, and i will try Starwaster's new dll file to see if it resolves the problem (at work now). However, i felt that nuclearping was stating a problem and wasn't getting actionable help (unfortunately, i feel i have been in nuclearping's shoes many-a-time on these forums).

But what you are saying is interesting:

All I know is too shallow = bad heat, too steep = bad G's.

It makes sense that too steep is bad G's, but why is too shallow = bad heat?

The only reason i can think of is because one might be ascending too slowly and end up heating your craft for an extended period of time (whereas if high G's werent a concern, they could slow down faster and spend less time surrounded by hot plasma). I suppose its possible that choosing too shallow a descent is a bad choice, since you will hardly slow down, and end up cooking yourself slowly...

Nuclearping, have you tried entering more steeply?

Edited May 21, 2015 by arkie87

[Starwaster]

It makes sense that too steep is bad G's, but why is too shallow = bad heat?

The only reason i can think of is because one might be ascending too slowly and end up heating your craft for an extended period of time (whereas if high G's werent a concern, they could slow down faster and spend less time surrounded by hot plasma). I suppose its possible that choosing too shallow a descent is a bad choice, since you will hardly slow down, and end up cooking yourself slowly...

Very shallow reentries mean lower peak heating rates but but spread out for a much longer time. As you say, you cook slowly. G Force is also lower for a shallow reentry.

Steep reentries mean higher peak heating rate but for a shorter period of time. It also means higher G Forces.