[1.2] Real Solar System v12.0 Dec 8

[MedievalNerd]

I've also noticed that when you warp time on the pad the rocket stops shaking and when I go back to normal speed, the rocket gets a huge kick.

Also occasionaly 1 of 4 clamps just comes loose on settling.

While writing this I realised this might not be related to this mod but with FAR?

Yes, from what I understand it does seem to be far related. Ferram posted yesterday that with the tweaks he's working on for RW Kerbin, almost removed the entire wobble. He had a rocket that looked like a Titan or something, and he said he only needed 2 connection struts... like wow. (Check in the previous posts, it's worth a look.)

Also, check out the tip I edited in my last reply.

Cheers,

[Lucchese]

Yes, from what I understand it does seem to be far related. Ferram posted yesterday that with the tweaks he's working on for RW Kerbin, almost removed the entire wobble. He had a rocket that looked like a Titan or something, and he said he only needed 2 connection struts... like wow. (Check in the previous posts, it's worth a look.)

Also, check out the tip I edited in my last reply.

Cheers,

Will go and check that out right now ^^

Until then I guess the custom launchbase tip () is a worthy one

[MedievalNerd]

Some more screenshots.

How many launches did it take to get that whole thing in orbit? It looks enormous! I'm working on resizing various probe parts ~0.5, so that we can launch probes with decent sized rockets. Probes tend to be quite heavy when you build them with 0.625m parts. (relatively speaking)

Considering how light probes/satellites are, it just feels right.

[Visari]

Indeed, career mode is absolutely fun, be it stock tree (and lots of custom added mods via MMext).

It's the first time I had a real reason to save succesful lifter stages as subassemblies.

It's quite nice to build a rocket family as you progress through tech.

@MedievalNerd: very capable 200kg commsats are possible, going under that can make them pretty useless.

Also, another 'bug' that (may) need minor attention after rescales: solar power.

As it is, panels have less than 20% of original output when in full kerbollight due to distance.

Personally, I wouldn't change it. in fact, I'd actually lower RTGs to new solar power levels or more, since this finally adds a realisticish power generation challenge when capsules consume electricity with life support and commsats get bigger and bigger and need more juice to operate.

[MedievalNerd]

Indeed, career mode is absolutely fun, be it stock tree (and lots of custom added mods via MMext).

It's the first time I had a real reason to save succesful lifter stages as subassemblies.

It's quite nice to build a rocket family as you progress through tech.

@MedievalNerd: very capable 200kg commsats are possible, going under that can make them pretty useless.

Also, another 'bug' that (may) need minor attention after rescales: solar power.

As it is, panels have less than 20% of original output when in full kerbollight due to distance.

Personally, I wouldn't change it. in fact, I'd actually lower RTGs to new solar power levels or more, since this finally adds a realisticish power generation challenge when capsules consume electricity with life support and commsats get bigger and bigger and need more juice to operate.

Try to make a probe with science instruments, battery and it's hard to get something lighter much lighter than 150kg. And stuff pre 1969 had some pretty lightweight probes. I guess it depends how far back you want to go.

EDIT: True that using Stayputnik, you can get away with 90kg with 1 small battery, all science instruments and 2 RT antennas. (for symmetry sake )

Edited October 27, 2013 by MedievalNerd

[Lucchese]

How many launches did it take to get that whole thing in orbit? It looks enormous! I'm working on resizing various probe parts ~0.5, so that we can launch probes with decent sized rockets. Probes tend to be quite heavy when you build them with 0.625m parts. (relatively speaking)

Considering how light probes/satellites are, it just feels right.

2 ^^

The center part you see in the first bunch of picture went as a whole and the 2 solar arms i slapped together on a TVR-200L and launched as one.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Lucchese

[SFJackBauer]

Yes, from what I understand it does seem to be far related. Ferram posted yesterday that with the tweaks he's working on for RW Kerbin, almost removed the entire wobble. He had a rocket that looked like a Titan or something, and he said he only needed 2 connection struts... like wow. (Check in the previous posts, it's worth a look.)

Also, check out the tip I edited in my last reply.

Cheers,

The launch clamps problem have nothing to do with FAR, I don't know from where you guys managed to think it is.

Ferram is working on a plugin completely unrelated to FAR, that helps create stronger connections between parts. That's all.

[Visari]

Try to make a probe with science instruments, battery and it's hard to get something lighter much lighter than 150kg. And stuff pre 1969 had some pretty lightweight probes. I guess it depends how far back you want to go.

EDIT: True that using Stayputnik, you can get away with 90kg with 1 small battery, all science instruments and 2 RT antennas. (for symmetry sake )

true, explorer 3 was like 10kg or so, right?

it'd be nice to be able to build those, if we somehow got science in a different way (think of achievements mod giving science), but as it is currently, not really required.

Once you complete your tech tree, we should definitely get something like the achievement system to gain science in addition to (perhaps nerfed) regular science.

In fact, maybe I could help with the tree.

You and I both started making full realism trees, yours specifically more detailed than mine, going deeper into coding with tech levels and such, I love that.

Maybe we should combine ideas? My tree has been halted by bugs that require the TreeEdit tool update, but it's finished if you want to take a look.

The tree is based on real life progression, starting with planes, reaching Biomes further and further away, getting most sensor equipment early on to prevent the need to grind spots over and over again.

goes on to rocket assisted takeoff, using rocket planes, eventually making suborbital hops, sending probes into space, and from there, it's forked into science - rocketry - exploration (life support/construction).

contains decent humor, too.

the idea of the tree is to be realistic, yet gameplay oriented. I intend to include some alterations to different files to support it aswell, such as the removal of diminishing returns from return-missions in sciencedefs.cfg to prevent annoying grind and give decent sciencegain to the then slower progression rate.

so many things to be fixed to make this all work

Edited October 27, 2013 by Visari

[NathanKell]

Truga: I had thought I had fixed that, but I'll try again with Minmus's orbit. The problem is it'll go outside Kerbin's SOI if I give it too large SMA and eccentricity.

Regarding the tech tree I'm very interested (obviously) but I'd ask if we could take the discussion to the tech tree threads in Dev? (Also, I want to point out that I made a non-controllable probe core that can still return science, for early unguided sounding rocket or satellite use, so you needn't only use planes at the start. I made it off RT1, but I'll release it as an addon for RT2.)

[p3asant]

What causes the wobble when giving control to mechjeb?

I presume it's something to do with FAR?

Mechjeb goes crary with yaw, pitch and roll all the time.

[Miller]

What causes the wobble when giving control to mechjeb?

I presume it's something to do with FAR?

Mechjeb goes crary with yaw, pitch and roll all the time.

It has nothing to do with FAR. The stock KSP physics system causes it.

[p3asant]

It has nothing to do with FAR. The stock KSP physics system causes it.

I don't mean the usual wobble you have with parts moving. I mean controls (yaw, pitch and roll) moving around like it was the end of the world.

[pina_coladas]

It's what mechjeb's PID controller does when you have a very large rocket. It's caused by the flexing and wobbling of the joints in the rocket, which makes the command pod sway relative to the engines. Mechjeb gets confused and over-corrects. There may be more to it than that but its the wobbly-rocket-syndrome that causes the most grief.

e: so use lots of struts and pray

Edited October 28, 2013 by pina_coladas

[keanukeno21]

can you lower kerbin atmosphere effect pls?,because the kerbin atmosphere effect on this mod is about 100km height

[CoriW]

can you lower kerbin atmosphere effect pls?,because the kerbin atmosphere effect on this mod is about 100km height

This mod / plugin is focusing on realism, and generally 100km is agree'd upon to be approximately where Earth's atmosphere ends and space begins. Now of course there are small particles of atmosphere above that point, but 100km is the generally agree'd upon altitude.

[sarbian]

It has nothing to do with FAR. The stock KSP physics system causes it.

It may be related to FAR. MJ thinks that a control surface make a ship turn at a specific angular speed. When you use FAR that speed change and MJ is confused.

[keanukeno21]

This mod / plugin is focusing on realism, and generally 100km is agree'd upon to be approximately where Earth's atmosphere ends and space begins. Now of course there are small particles of atmosphere above that point, but 100km is the generally agree'd upon altitude.

earth atmosphere is 60km height

[versendaal]

earth atmosphere is 60km height

For what it's worth, wiki says:

The Kármán line, at 100 km (62 mi), or 1.57% of the Earth's radius, is often used as the border between the atmosphere and outer space. Atmospheric effects become noticeable during atmospheric reentry of spacecraft at an altitude of around 120 km (75 mi).

[Truga]

Truga: I had thought I had fixed that, but I'll try again with Minmus's orbit. The problem is it'll go outside Kerbin's SOI if I give it too large SMA and eccentricity.

IMO, just increase or lower Minmus' periapsis by several percent and it should never cross Mun's orbit, so Minmus' orbit either goes above or below Mun's where they cross at the moment.

[Zander]

I still think putting minimus as a second moon around Duna is the best course of action. we are going for a "real solar system" after all arent we? and real mars has 2 moons.

[dimovski]

hmm... how about giving it to Dres? Or giving Ike to Jool?

Anyway, if I read that correctly... the flamey-thingy IRL starts at 120km? So... shouldnt the atmosphere be up to 200km then? Or atleast 150? Or would that cause problems with scale height?

[Reddragon]

This may sound silly but I think Minmus should be the 2nd moon of Duna maybe and Gilly should be an asteroid (it looks the most like an asteroid and has the lowest G) not far from the orbit of Kerbin between Kerbin and Duna after Duna is moved to it's right place. I say this because current plans for human exploration involve asteroid visits just out of Earth SOI. Therefore this may be very realistic and eventually exciting to do exploration missions to an asteroid. It also may make carreer with this mod fairly easier scince after Mun missions players could turn on to explore something gives them quite a lot of science points before taking a way too huge leap after Mun to Duna.

[MedievalNerd]

Howdy,

So I've been messing around with the weird launch pad issue that makes the clamps either disconnect or the whole ship. And I realized that when the launch pad is first loaded, or when you turn off time compression, your ship will slightly move to the right.

Using this "technique" I was able to literally slowly push my rocket off the launchpad.

Now, I have no idea what's causing this obviously. But I was hoping that more information about the symptoms might help uncover what is causing this.

Seems everytime the physics engine kicks in, it shoves things to the side.

Trying to compare it to the stock way this happens, it appears that when the physics kick in, rather than applying a force that runs down the lenght of the rocket. (IE, when you appear most of the time you can see a slightly bouncing up/down going on.

But with Real World, it seems to be applying it sideways. So each time you load physics the rocket gets a kick to the side. Which probably why the launch clamps hate this. I noticed that if I use a pair of launch clamps, left & right, the left one always seems to disconnect. Which seems to confirm this weird 'push to the right'. To be more precise a push towards the 90' heading.

Still, using Nathan's tip of using a decoupler with struts as a "base", in combination with Ferams new plugin with stability joints, it seems launching rockets isn't impossible anymore.

Hopefully this is somewhat helpful.

[dimovski]

Would placing them on headings 180 and 0 fix it then?

[AndreyATGB]

Would placing them on headings 180 and 0 fix it then?

Interesting, I'll definitely try this. All I really need clamps for is so that the rocket doesn't have all its weight on the engines.