(OLD) The Ultimate Jool-5 Challenge:land Kerbals on all moons and return in one big mission

[grockstar124]

Be careful you don't over-power as well as over-engineer... I had a LOT of 'fun' trying out various combinations of huge engines, and found the most powerful I could use at full thrust were Skippers... 4 of them. Any more/more powerful, and you are likely to tear stuff apart!

ALWAYS use struts! Especially on a ship big enough to go to Jool...

Best of luck with the next launch

4 Skippers? Okay...

Yeah, the struts was a silly thing. Not sure what happened there :/

[Fendleton]

Hmm. I'm still trying to crack a Tylo lander. I think I might just add an extra module with a bunch more landers and tugs for the other moons, then haul a docking adapter out as well. It's annoying extra mass, but it should let me specialise on the design a bit. I've got a lander that can get into a 75km orbit around Kerbin with spare fuel (which I figure should be plenty of delta-V), but it has to stage in order to do so (which means I have to think hard about the Laythe mission). Looks like I'll have to send a test mission out in a second savefile...if it can SSTO on Tylo then I don't need to bother with extra landers.

[bobcook]

bobcook: Congratulations, you have finished the JOOL-5 Challenge on Jebediah's Level!

Thank you! This was an incredible challenge for me, I'd never attempted anything nearly this big before. I got a lot of encouragement from reading this thread, it convinced me that it was something I could really do despite my inexperience.

But seeing the similar landers, you could have used docking ports and less landers, no? Maybe two: one for Tylo and one for the others...

I was thinking the same thing, although I was thinking three landers rather than two (Tylo, Laythe, everything else). If I was going to do it again, I would definitely consider doing it that way. But I started out thinking I should try to get five landers out to Jool and back, and it really proved a challenge, even a bigger challenge than I realized!

Thanks for creating this challenge, and for continuing to be active in this thread.

Edited June 25, 2014 by bobcook

[bobcook]

Hmm. I'm still trying to crack a Tylo lander.

I prototyped a number of designs and used Hyperedit to rapidly test them. I mean "test them in the simulator". I made careful notes about when to start the descent, where to set the throttle, when to coast with the engines off, how to land, and how to ascend. In may case, for my two stage lander: start at 60km, half throttle for the full descent including stage 1 and 2, never shut down the throttle, full throttle for the last hundred meters or so until touchdown, and full throttle on launch with a gravity turn fairly quickly.

[23278]

I'm going to give this a shot. The ship is still a WIP, and I'm nowhere near as good at piloting as most of you are, so I'm just going to be building a really big ship with lots of fuel. Of course, it has to look good too...

So far I have command, engine, and housing/science modules. Next will be the landing/coms module followed by the fuel module. I've sent everything up empty to ease the launch possess, so I'll have to make quite a few trips to fuel it before it gets underway.

I chose to add shielding for realism (space rocks, ya know ), and the command module also has it's own propulsion and power system so, should there be a catastrophic failure of the engine module, it can put itself and the housing module (if servicable) into orbit around a body to await rescue. I don't like leaving my Kerbals adrift.

Edited June 25, 2014 by 23278

[NecroBones]

I was thinking the same thing, although I was thinking three landers rather than two (Tylo, Laythe, everything else).

I think from a lander design perspective, this is one of the easier ways to do it. Anything that can handle Vall, will also handle Pol and Bop. But Tylo and Laythe have their unique challenges of course.

[Superfluous J]

I'm using 2 landers for all 5 moons. I have a Laythe lander (Wings FTW) and then a lander that can land on Tylo and lift off, dropping a few fuel tanks and turning into a (once refuelled) lander that can land on Vall and lift off. Drop a few more tanks and it can land on Pol and Bop and take off.

[SSSPutnik]

Tylo / Laythe landers are tricky. Jets are so useful on Laythe they are worth looking at. One of my Tylo landers had jets that could be dumped after use, worked well.

[Fendleton]

I chose to add shielding for realism (space rocks, ya know ), and the command module also has it's own propulsion and power system so, should there be a catastrophic failure of the engine module, it can put itself and the housing module (if servicable) into orbit around a body to await rescue. I don't like leaving my Kerbals adrift.

I would have done that, but I haven't unlocked the panels yet. Yay for the standard tech-tree (this also makes placing probe units hard: I don't have Size 1 and 2 versions)!

I think I'll revise my lander a bit, then add a second lander for Laythe. The Tylo version can probably work as a universal lander once the massive boosters are gone. A couple of SRBs added onto it should help the landing burn. It's certainly got enough delta-V for the trip...I just don't know how fast it can accelerate. I should be able to mount a small tug behind my main propulsion units as well once I've moved the science stuff onto the lander, which gives me a little leeway.

Of course, I still don't know if I've got enough fuel for this trip, or how long my burns are going to take (I'm guessing hours, but eh...who knows?).

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

A couple of SRBs added onto it should help the landing burn.

SRB's aren't really recommended for landing, as you can't control them as well as liquid-fueled rocket engines... unless you decouple them as you touch down (if they are still going) but this would be very tricky to pull off right without either damaging something or running out of fuel before you finish the suicide burn... just another helpful tip

[Fendleton]

SRB's aren't really recommended for landing, as you can't control them as well as liquid-fueled rocket engines... unless you decouple them as you touch down (if they are still going) but this would be very tricky to pull off right without either damaging something or running out of fuel before you finish the suicide burn... just another helpful tip

I'm thinking more for the initial slowdown from orbital speeds. My lander has a core of a size 2 tank with 4 side-mounted LV-909s (with a basic 400-size tank on each of them). Then a pair of cross-feeding skipper-powered boosters, then a pair of drop tanks outside those for the de-orbit burn. The problem is that that while the TWR is enough for a landing, it's still not very high. I'm thinking that if I add a single SRB to each of the drop-tanks, I can slow down faster on approach, leaving more fuel to finetune the landing.

Basic idea is: Droptank fuel to set up approach/leave mothership and do the initial de-orbit.

Then when it's time for slowdown, activate SRBs, burn remaining droptank fuel and eject the tanks (and the attached SRBs). Then suicide-burn the rest of the way on skippers and the 909's. Assuming there's a little Skipper fuel left when I land, use them for the initial takeoff, then LV909 back to the mothership. I'll probably have to quickload this a few times to fix accidental lithobraking.

[Ziv]

I'm sure that SRBs are not a good idea at Tylo. You can experiment with them and it would be a solution never tried before but it would be less efficient.

By the way the best way to land on Tylo is to start from about 10km orbit and keeping the vertical speed low (so not falling faster) and being close to the ground when the horizontal speed reaches zero.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

I'm thinking more for the initial slowdown from orbital speeds. My lander has a core of a size 2 tank with 4 side-mounted LV-909s (with a basic 400-size tank on each of them). Then a pair of cross-feeding skipper-powered boosters, then a pair of drop tanks outside those for the de-orbit burn. The problem is that that while the TWR is enough for a landing, it's still not very high. I'm thinking that if I add a single SRB to each of the drop-tanks, I can slow down faster on approach, leaving more fuel to finetune the landing.

Basic idea is: Droptank fuel to set up approach/leave mothership and do the initial de-orbit.

Then when it's time for slowdown, activate SRBs, burn remaining droptank fuel and eject the tanks (and the attached SRBs). Then suicide-burn the rest of the way on skippers and the 909's. Assuming there's a little Skipper fuel left when I land, use them for the initial takeoff, then LV909 back to the mothership. I'll probably have to quickload this a few times to fix accidental lithobraking.

Well fair enough, I can't find too much fault with this plan

Hadn't thought about using SRB's for that (pretty obvious, really ) but sounds like a good plan in principal, you'll have to let us know how it works out

Currently nearing the end of the half-hour RL burn time of the current refuel mission, and an idea hit me... as the refueling tankers seem so much more efficient on fuel, would it be o.k to swap out the rediculously inneficient main-engines of my mothership with one of the tankers? should mean no more refuelling trips, the amount I have along with me this time...

[Fendleton]

Well, my exams are over, I've got my new and improved Tylo lander into orbit (although I've noticed I've forgotten to put any lights on it. I'm sure they won't be needed, right?)....so I guess it's time for my first write-up.

I've put this over in Mission Reports: HERE

[Oafman]

I think SRBs can work for launch from planets/moons where you have an atmosphere. So you can parachute them down and then use them to get off the ground. I did this for an Eve return vehicle, just to get me through that difficult first few kilometres of thick atmosphere, and they worked well.

Not sure about using them for descent though. You would have no control. If you go for it, please report how you get on

[grockstar124]

At least I did not kill a kerbal (or 2) this time...

After the deaths of to 2 kerbonaughts(?), the Launcher was improved with struts and 8 radial engines with fuel lines.

Launch went well, and the first stage dropped normal.

But then a issue came up... the 2nd stage engine.... had fallen off...

I ended the flight once I took the screenshot.

So... I am still having problems with the engine.

Also, I will cut back on the radials, half of my liquid fuel had been burnt, perhaps I could attach a Rocko 32 for the radial problem, and maybe I could keep the 8?

Anyways, I am working on it. This will take a while

[Stratzenblitz75]

Hello again! I have finished the Jool-5 segment of my grand tour! The only planet left to visit is Eeloo, and if all goes well, I should finish that segment today and get a total science point value for the mission.

Jool system pics:

Laythe:

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Vall and Tylo:

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Bop and Pol:

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[Stratzenblitz75]

With the completion of the Outer Wilds Mission, I'd like to enter it for the Jool-5 Challenge.

- Which game version did you use?

A: 0.23.5

- What mods did you use, if any?

A: Yes, I used:

Kerbal Engineer Redux

TAC fuel balancer

Time Control(faster time warp FTW)

Precise Node

- How many launches were needed to start your mission from Kerbal?

A: 1

- How many refueling did you do during the mission, how much and where?

A: None

- Did you bring a Living Quarter (Hitch-hiker's Storage) for the guys during the long journey?

A: No

- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?

A: No

Some other statistics:

The mass of the vessel once in LKO was less than 100 tons. (At launch, it was over 900 tons. I never said I was good at building launch vehicles)

42981 science points were gathered during the mission.

5 Kerbals were launched aboard the vessel, and all returned home safely.

All science was stored in a mobile processing lab which was returned to Kerbin.

I didn't receive any science for recovering a vessel from the surface or orbit of any of the planets even though I returned my main lander (the GPL) to Kerbin. For some reason, I got points for recovering a vessel from the surface of Eeloo, but none of the other planets. (Maybe Eeloo landing just overrode all the other landings... I don't know if this is a bug or not)

Here is the final segment of the mission for proof:

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Mission Log HERE

Edited June 29, 2014 by Stratzenblitz75

[Fendleton]

In my continuing attempt at this challenge, I've just lobbed my Tylo lander into orbit. One more lander after this, plus some replacement science modules, plus a small tug, plus anything else I think of before I'm finished that lot, and I'll be ready to leave LKO.

Update post: HERE

Quite a few people have been curious about the SRB-descent concept, so if you're one of these people this post has pictures of the lander that make the idea a little clearer. No idea if it'll work, but I guess we'll see later.

[Cmdr. Arn1e]

2nd refuel mission is good so far; currently in a very eccentric eliptical orbit of Vall awaiting a response from Ziv (or SSSPutnik) as to wether I can switch out my main engines on the mothership for the one currently hauling the fuel, for fuel conservation purposes for the rest of the mission... If no, I think it will still be possible to complete, but may need yet another massive amount of fuel yet! The Skippers are REALLY inefficient for this sort of mission :/

[grockstar124]

I am taking a 2 week break from the Jool 5 challange, for 2 reasons.

1. I have started playing career mode with Better Than Starting Manned.

2. I am going to South Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, for 2 weeks, and I leave tomorrow. My computer's files will be reorganized during this, so I cannot bring it.

Once this period is done, I will resume the challange again!

[Rakaydos]

After a hiatus, I may be attempting this challange again, single lander, Jeb and Bob on each moon and back to kerbin, with no ions, jet engines, or parachutes.

Obvously with that, Laythe is my biggest stumbling block- the distance I need to send the tylo lander to test it for laythe entry and launch puts a crimp in my test schedual. Also I may rework my superheavy lifter for a few extra % of fuel efficency in the upper level staging.

[Maxilica]

Hi! I've been intrigued by this challenge and I'm currently planning a mission. I have read the rules, but something is still unclear: Can I launch fuel containers to one of the moons for refuelling before the main mission is launched/if the ship's fuel supplies aren't empty?

To give you an example, let's say that I'm at Laythe and I have some fuel, but to be safe I decide to refuel using the container I sent up earlier. I refuel and continue with the mission.

Thank you,

Max

[Norcalplanner]

Challenge is under way, Laythe has been crossed off the list. Full mission report with lots of photos to come when I'm done.

One thing's for sure - I'm not going to win any awards for being svelte. The Jool Explorer was topped off with two tanker trips, and tipped the scales at over 800 tons when it pulled out of LKO.

[bobcook]

I have read the rules, but something is still unclear: Can I launch fuel containers to one of the moons for refuelling before the main mission is launched/if the ship's fuel supplies aren't empty?

Obviously Ziv has the last word on any rule clarification, but his original statement "There's funding for one main ship only so all the crew, lander(s) and other stuff has to go to Jool as one big ship" seems to clearly state that you get one ship to work with at time of departure. No need to cheat, its certainly doable without sending refuelling ships in advance.