Probes, do they really matter in Career?

[Azoth]

Been playing the Career mode for a few weeks now, and with a fair bit of the Tech Tree unlocked, I've been curious about whether or not probes are worth making. They have limitations such as no EVA reports, or Soil Samples, and well, basically anything that a Kerbal does. The only thing they got going for them is that they are lighter than command pods, but it really doesn't seem worth it to make one and send it, say to Duna, when I can use a bit more fuel and put a Kerbal on the surface and get far more science than the probe would yield. Does anyone know a senario where a Probe would actually be more efficient for the purpose of gaining Science than sending a Kerbal to the same place?

[orangexception]

If you don't mind stranding Kerbals everywhere, then you can eliminate a lot of probe use cases. I send probes to Eve.

Otherwise, probes are handy for reusable lifters or things you'd like to take care of later.

They're also handy for fuel depots, transfer stages, etc. that you may want to dock with, but don't want to bother keeping a Kerbal on board.

[Dooz]

Sence I sorta Developed a Emotional Connect With Kerbals they Matter to me If You dont Care Then it does not matter

Edited November 8, 2013 by Dooz
Grammar

[AmpsterMan]

Two reasons.

Lighter vehicle (which you mentioned)

Less stigma for sending on one way missions.

Otherwise Kerbals are the way to go

[Tex_NL]

Indeed, currently there is no real benefit of sending a probe instead of a Kerbal. But I guess in the future things will be a lot different. Once economics enter the game it would surprise me if loosing/stranding a Kerbal would have a significant negative effect on your annual funding.

[Xenophobe]

If you're playing self imposed hardcore (no F5/F9), easier to rationalize probe losses

[Crown]

* I think a landing on Eve would be a reason, because despite many crazy-looking solution I can't figure out a way to get a rocket onto the surface which would be able to lift one Kerbal.

* A trip around the sun with a trajectory very close to the surface. I am not sure if study the sun will bring much science, but it's quite difficult to bring a Kerbal home on a quite-free-return-path from around the sun. (Now I feel the need to calculate this)

[FITorion]

Their good for sending to places that you have no intention of returning from...

Such as: Eve, close orbit of the Sun, Jool.

I dropped 5 probes into Eve... Only one managed to hit liquid and give me different results from the others... But I sure as heck wasn't going to send a Kerbal to do it.

Then my probe to the Jool system became my probe to Jool when the aerobraking was a bit more effective than I thought it'd be... No Kerbals lost...

[jfull]

I used probes to Duna, Ike, and Eve as early science grabs in my Campaign (and it paid off pretty well). I only used some of the experiment parts on those, so there's plenty of reason for me to go back with Kerbals eventually (Or, in Eve's case, send a bigger probe)

[Kasuha]

Everything I sent out of Kerbin SOI was a probe when I was doing Career. I got about 2/3 of my science points that way.

[Superfluous J]

I assume when money becomes an issue, probes will be more attractive.

I like to send probe landers to a planet and land them around, to find a nice flat landing area. That way when I send my Kerbals, they can aim for the probe lander that's proven the ground is flat. Takes a lot less fuel to bob around with a Stayputnik head than a multi-Kerbal lander.

[fedemotta3]

Just to not lose little green guys in suicidal missions as people have stated before

[sewerbird]

Another useful thing to use probe cores for are space statinos and multipart ships where you might like to rearrange various doodads on the ship over the course of its mission, without wanting to put superfluous command pods on: the thin in-line probe cores (small and large) are very useful for this.

[CaptainArchmage]

The first version of career mode means there is an immense preference towards using direct ascent launches to get ships everywhere, because you get a lot more science that way. After a brief pause following the first Mün mission (which just managed to make a safe return to Kerbin), the Mün has been under a barrage of vessels. I have three landed and two more on the way. There are also two ships on their way to Minmus. Wait scratch that, a few more just went up.

As of 0.23, we should be getting new habitable parts such as the science lab, and the ways science is done will be changed so it should be possible to transfer important samples to a return ship, including the critical parts of the goo canister and materials lab (which will render them inoperable for further science).

Edited November 9, 2013 by CaptainArchmage
Corrections

[Gamerlegend]

i use them as for the lols so lets say i dont wont to kill a kerbal i send a porbe with the gear do some r and let is die out there or you can save kerbals that you put out there for science

[DisarmingBaton5]

-Distance missions (Jool, Eeloo)

-Rescue missions

-Test missions

-Save the Kerbals

[jwenting]

I don't send Kerbals on one way missions, period.

I won't send Kerbals on missions I'm not confident they'll survive, period.

Until recently, I didn't have the launcher to send a return mission to another body, so sent only probes.

As I'm not yet confident at landing on other bodies, I am for now sending only probe landers (have done some manned circummunar flights).

[spyker92]

I tend to use probes pretty aggressively. But I currently have a preference for sending one way missions right now to the more distant planets. But honestly, theres really no reason not to send a manned mission with the plan to return from any body right now. Probes are just really simple to build, light, and I can be reckless with them with deadly reentry since I don't have to worry about protecting the kerbals . The goal is to impact the celestial body hard enough to stop, but not explode completely

[kurja]

Jool lower atmosphere and surface missions. Eve surface missions, unless you're able to ascent from there without it being a massive chore. Low solar orbit missions.

And the amount of science available in the game is much more than you need for the entire tech tree, so you might want to play a couple missions a bit easier - with probes, much lighter and easier to fly.

[Azoth]

Some good points made by everyone here. I'm personally not that attached to my Kerbals, though I won't say, send one into the sun on purpose, and any that I can't return to Kerbin, I plan rescue missions for in the future. I really like the idea in Tex_NL 's post, about it costing money when you lose a Kerbal (ie, death or escape from the solar system). sewerbird and 5thHorseman also got some good Ideas I never thought of. Thanks for the replies everyone!

[espm400]

I just posted this in the 'what did you do today?' thread, but a probe mission just netted me ~1175rp. Since I just yesterday started playing again after a several month absence, this was way more than I'd earned in total up to this point. Long story short, I was about to quit and decided to just fire the lander probe I'd made for an earlier Minmus landing and return out at the sun. It didn't make it, but I ended up with a random Eve intercept.

[codepants]

What everybody else said -- $$, expendable -- but wanted to add that because they are lighter, you can go farther earlier in the tech tree. EG by your second or third launch (depending on how you play) you can probably get a probe to Duna... but definitely not a Kerbal. That 0.4t you're talking about adds up when you have to move it halfway across the galaxy and don't have efficient engines to do that with.

[Xetalim]

I use probes for locations that are not safe for kerbals(kerbol, jool and other kraken-ish places)

[SirJodelstein]

Im with coolpantskyle here, i think the weight difference is actually quite important. Double so if you play with "realistic" mods like Deadly Reentry (extra heatshield required for reentry survival => more "dead weight" during the entire mission) or the Rescaling mod where putting stuff just into LKO is a huge feat. Or if you play with one of the "hard mode" tech trees where part availability severely restricts how much weight you can lift into orbit.

Try to limit yourself to 10-12 tons max to LKO, without advanced engines like nukes and ion engines, and you will see that Kerbals vs. probe cores is a huge difference in what you can reach and do with a single launch :-)

Obviously, as soon as you have docking ports, all this breaks down to "how much can your PC handle"...

[RexKramer]

You can reach Eve, Gilly, Duna, and Ike with probes almost immediately in career, the science return is really high. Dres, Jool, and Laythe are also reachable very early in career with probes. The only added technology you really need is solar panels and antennas.

I prefer to bring every spaceman back home. So while one-way manned missions don't require much more effort than one-way probe missions, I prefer to wait until I have the capability of a return trip before manned missions to other planets. That makes probes an easy way to get a boatload of science early on.

Nothing wrong with sending Kerbals on one-way trips, I just enjoy the game more bringing everyone back.