[1.12] Extraplanetary Launchpads v6.99.3

[taniwha]

suicidejunkie: Ah, thanks. It looks like I forgot to add part descriptions to the contracts. I'll take care of that ASAP (a little busy now for some strange reason).

[edit]Actually, it looks like a change in 1.0.5 that I had failed to notice. Arsonide made things a little easier for us modders. Instead of a title (full sentence), we need to provide only a part description, article (a/an), and vessel description. More fields, but less effort.

Edited February 18, 2016 by taniwha

[mcortez]

On 2/9/2016 at 1:55 AM, taniwha said:

Other than the lack of staging/releasing, that's pretty much how launch-clamps work right now: unless they think they are at KSC, the generators are disabled, as are the fuel pumps MFT adds.

That said, what you describe is on my TODO list.

[edit]Also, it looks like it would not be too difficult to implement code-wise, so it's just a matter of me getting some time to do up a model.

I'd also love to have something like this.  In my case, I'd prefer something that looks like a girder coming out of the ground (like the stock launch clamp) and gives me a number of attachment nodes a couple meters above the ground, but I could just as easily do that with a foundation block and then attach a girder with a Not-Rockomax Micronode on top of it.

Even better, but certainly in the realm of over top top super awesome optional feature, would be a way to configure the height of the nodes -- perhaps a right click menu slider that lets you move them up/down a couple of meters, with it snapping the height to say .1 meter increments -- along with something in the right click menu telling us the height above "sea level" of the node.  The purpose of all this being that we could plant multiple anchors over rough ground, and level them all to the same height.  Even without this build in, we could probably accomplish it with Infernal Robotics.

Thanks!!!

[taniwha]

53 minutes ago, mcortez said:

I'd also love to have something like this.  In my case, I'd prefer something that looks like a girder coming out of the ground (like the stock launch clamp) and gives me a number of attachment nodes a couple meters above the ground, but I could just as easily do that with a foundation block and then attach a girder with a Not-Rockomax Micronode on top of it.

This is pretty much what I had in mind, but thanks for the micronode suggestion: that bit was eluding me (how should I attach things thing?)

54 minutes ago, mcortez said:

Even better, but certainly in the realm of over top top super awesome optional feature, would be a way to configure the height of the nodes -- perhaps a right click menu slider that lets you move them up/down a couple of meters, with it snapping the height to say .1 meter increments -- along with something in the right click menu telling us the height above "sea level" of the node.  The purpose of all this being that we could plant multiple anchors over rough ground, and level them all to the same height.  Even without this build in, we could probably accomplish it with Infernal Robotics.

Most of this functionality is already in EL, but hidden in the survey stakes and launch clamps. Using a -Y bounds stake will set the height of the bottom of the build, and EL modifies the launch clamps to auto-extend to the ground. The plan for this part is just to make a "non-launch clamp" as such.

However, it sounds like you would like to be able to place just the support part. That will need some thinking to get the height right, as it's based on the lowest collider of the built "vessel".

[mcortez]

2 minutes ago, taniwha said:

 

However, it sounds like you would like to be able to place just the support part. That will need some thinking to get the height right, as it's based on the lowest collider of the built "vessel".

I wouldn't mind using stakes, as long as I could figure out how to "plant" 5 or 6 supports over rough terrain where all the nodes ended up at the same height (think base building where I'd like to get all the parts at the same height.)  

I have to admit, I've never actually use the stakes yet -- I usually use the Orbital Construction part from USI/OKS.  Do stakes get consumed when used on the surface?  If not, is it safe to assume that I could plant a -Y bounds stake, and then some kind of origin stake for the vessels center (X/Z) -- and then reuse the -Y stake and just plant another origin stake?

 

[Superfluous J]

I have no idea if this would be even possible but I just happened to have your thread and Vessel Mover up at the same time, and thought how great it would be if Extraplanetary Launchpads had that kind of interface for placing built ships.

I imagine one of 2 scenarios, both for ground stations. In-space you have more control over your environment:

1. When the ship is complete, it is placed in the world in "placement" mode on the stake or launchpad you put down, and you can move it around near that stake within reason.
2. When choosing to build the ship, you go into the "placement" mode FIRST. This way you can decide ahead of time if you even want to build the thing, or if you need to modify it to better suit the terrain and nearby structures. If possible, a ghost image of the vessel could remain until it's built, to remind the player not to put anything there before completion

[taniwha]

7 hours ago, mcortez said:

Do stakes get consumed when used on the surface?  If not, is it safe to assume that I could plant a -Y bounds stake, and then some kind of origin stake for the vessels center (X/Z) -- and then reuse the -Y stake and just plant another origin stake?

Stakes do not get consumed, so yes, you can plant one -Y bounds stake and move around an Origin stake or two to place multiple vessels.

6 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

I have no idea if this would be even possible but I just happened to have your thread and Vessel Mover up at the same time, and thought how great it would be if Extraplanetary Launchpads had that kind of interface for placing built ships.

While not something with the control of Vessel Mover, I do want to add vessel ghosting to EL. Probably for high-level (but not too high) surveyors (Pilots in EL's current setup).

[gamerscircle]

Sorry to sidebust in this thread, I finally got my Mun Base to the point where I have the resources to start using EPL.

It would turn out, that I was using some out of date documentation, but now I think almost there:

Resources - Check
Pioneer Module - Very very soon.
Kerbal with stakes and a mallet - Check
Workshop - ??

Oh, yes - I am using the combo of UKS and EPL and I have a test setup on the runway that has a Pioneer Module, PSU [just so that I have power] a Workshop Module [not sure if I need this] and filled storage containers with both Material Kits and Specialized Parts.

I have an kerbal in each module and I have a kerbal that setup 3 stakes, I get the UI for the EPL, I select the craft [very simple thing], I see the menu that shows what I am going need, in which I use the slider and remove the mono to zero, click build and accelerate time.. and I see no progress.

What am I missing?

[SquidDNA]

Gamerscircle-- it sounds like it might be a MKS productivity issue.

As for myself-- I don't appear to have EL installed correctly and I can't figure out why. I'm running USI Kolonization and I don't get EL UI from the Orbital Shipyard part. 

• I have ModuleManager.2.6.18.dll in GameData. Also the ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads folder (the one containing "Agencies" "Internals" "Parts" "Resources" "Ships" EL_MM.cfg etc.) is inside of GameData.
• EL parts (mallet, stakes) are viewable in the VAB / SPH.
• Toolbar is 1.7.10 and works fine for USI Kolonization, Crew Manifest, Chatterer, etc.

I appreciate any insight you can offer.

Also, it's been awhile since I used EL, but is it still true that there's a little part you have to put on your ship to flag it for an offworld build, or am I thinking of another similar mod?

Edited February 20, 2016 by SquidDNA

[taniwha]

10 hours ago, SquidDNA said:

Gamerscircle-- it sounds like it might be a MKS productivity issue.

More likely an EL productivity issue.

12 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

I have an kerbal in each module and I have a kerbal that setup 3 stakes, I get the UI for the EPL, I select the craft [very simple thing], I see the menu that shows what I am going need, in which I use the slider and remove the mono to zero, click build and accelerate time.. and I see no progress.

Right click on a command pod. Its productivity will likely be zero or even negative (needs a level-1+ engineer that isn't too stupid to be positive), but the vessel productivity will be shown as well. If it is zero or negative, no building will occur. The displayed vessel productivity is the sum of the productivities of all parts with workshop modules, and this is what is used to determine the rate of building.

As for what determines an individual part's productivity:

• Scientists and Pilots (or more accurately, those without the construction skill (ExConstruction experience effect)) cannot contribute positive productivity unless there is a level-5 engineer (or really, a level-5 kerbal with the construction skill) in the same part. They can, however contribute negative productivity, though if they have sufficient experience (level-3+), they will not (I guess they've learned how to keep out of the way).
• Engineers (ie, kerbals with the construction skill) will not contribute any productivity (positive or negative) in anything but a fully equipped workshop (producitivity >= 1, or with the fully equipped flag set). Level-1 allows them to be productive (positive or negative) in any workshop, level-2 will be positively productive in fully equipped workshops, level-3 in any workshop, level-4 will allow inexperienced "engineers" to work in that workshop, and level-5 allows any kerbal to work in that workshop (all lower level attributes still in effect).
• A kerbal's base contribute (any kerbal) is determined by the kerbal's Stupidity, Courage, and whether the kerbal is badass or not. It's a mildly complicated relationship, so you are best off consulting the excellent graphs done by Kerbas_ad_astra.

Yeah, it seems a bit micro-managment-ish, but the idea is to encourage valuing your kerbals.

Also, if you haven't guess from above, I am very against testing against Scientist/Pilot/Engineer for whether a kerbal can do something. Instead, I created the skills I needed (construction and surveying) and added them to what seemed to be the appropriate class (engineers for construction, pilots for surveying).

BTW, I'm pretty sure the sliders in the screen before you start building have no effect. They certainly have none for survey builds as the built vessel will always be empty. If they do have any effect (on a pad or orbital dock), then they only set the default for the post-build/pre-release screen. The idea of that pre-build screen is to let you overview what resources the vessel will need so you can plan around it.

11 hours ago, SquidDNA said:

Also, it's been awhile since I used EL, but is it still true that there's a little part you have to put on your ship to flag it for an offworld build, or am I thinking of another similar mod?

You are thinking of Orbital Construction Redux. I used it once and did not like its mechanic, thus I put the effort into getting EL to do orbital construction. All that's needed is a "pad" (any pad will work, but the orbital dock is probably the most convenient, and it works on the ground, too, but may be awkward there).

[SquidDNA]

Sorry taniwha, I thought MKS used its own production scheme for shipbuilding. It's been awhile since I've used EL and I've not used it with MKS recently.

Thanks, I was a little worried not being able to find that part meant there was a problem with the install. Is there any more information I can provide to help explain this problem?

[suicidejunkie]

There's something off about the catch-up code when returning to a workshop craft after time away from it.

I have a tiny auger, tiny smelter and the workbench tower, so the whole operation is limited by the auger.  Steady state operation leaves the smelter stalling at 15% ore->metal and 60% scrap->metal, with the workbench also stalling on input at some percentage I don't recall, but producing more output than is being consumed by the launchpad. 

 

However, upon returning to the shop after a day or so away, it updated to:

 - Zero metal

 - 100% full ore

 - 100% full scrap

 - Rocket parts dropped by quite a few tons

 

I presume it is trying to do all the updates in one step (or not enough steps), rather than iterating over a few cycles to allow for production and consumption to alternate, like the stock ISRU does.

I suppose I can mitigate it with more storage, or babysitting it, but it would be nice if that wasn't required.

 

 

PS:

Would it be possible to reorder and prioritize the scrap->metal conversion over the ore->metal conversion?

This is good for when metal storage fills up.  Scrap metal gets generated for "free" while making parts, but ore costs energy from the augers.

it is much better to let the augers stall out, than to have the scrap bin overflow

[taniwha]

 

SquidDNA: no worries about that, mixing mods like EL and MKS can get a little confusing as to which mod is doing what.

As to your problem: while not saying this is the case for you, EL shuts itself down on 64-bit windows KSP due to its brokenness (hopefully this will come to an end with KSP 1.1). Works fine on 64-bit linux KSP (it's what I use). If that's not the problem, then make sure you have a suitable part attached. I don't know my way around MKS, but if you check the config files for ExLaunchpad or ExSurveyStation, you can find the parts.

suicidejunkie: what version of EL are you using? I fixed the workshop to update in chunks in 5.2.95.

Prioritizing ScrapMetal over MetalOre for Metal production would be tricky. I'll have to think about it.

[Cydonia333]

This mod looks great, but I can't load the site you linked to for a download, it just times out. Would you be able to host it on, say, Curse?

[suicidejunkie]

I've got 5.2.95  Maybe it just needs more granularity to handle cases with less storage?  I had only the tiny smelter's storage at the time.  (though I have since built some 1000 class tanks to bolt on)

 

The entry that is listed first in the popup is the one that will run first, and stall the later ones.

I just tried poking around, and found that all you have to do for this one is swap the order that the ExConverter modules appear in the .cfg

If the scrap metal conversion appears first in the .cfg, it appears first on the popup menu, and hogs all the resources.

[gamerscircle]

Thanks for the help @taniwha , since I didn't know what I was doing.  It was that I was using raw recruits and once I put some kerbals with some experience in there, things started to work.

[taniwha]

 

5 hours ago, Cydonia333 said:

This mod looks great, but I can't load the site you linked to for a download, it just times out. Would you be able to host it on, say, Curse?

While my IP address does change occasionally and make my server go offline until I notice, it is working just fine right now. It was probably just a temporary routing issue.

I have no intention of ever using Curse.

gamerscircle: I'm glad you got things working. I really need to do up a user manual :/.

[sh1pman]

Don't know if it's a bug or not, but the game tells me I can't attach stakes to the ground. If I put them on the ground without attaching, however, they just explode a couple of seconds later. Which is clearly not supposed to happen. So, what am I doing wrong?

EDIT: Probably related to KIS, reverted back to the previous version, and it works fine again.

Edited February 22, 2016 by sh1pman

[SquidDNA]

16 hours ago, taniwha said:

SquidDNA: no worries about that, mixing mods like EL and MKS can get a little confusing as to which mod is doing what.

As to your problem: while not saying this is the case for you, EL shuts itself down on 64-bit windows KSP due to its brokenness (hopefully this will come to an end with KSP 1.1). Works fine on 64-bit linux KSP (it's what I use). If that's not the problem, then make sure you have a suitable part attached. I don't know my way around MKS, but if you check the config files for ExLaunchpad or ExSurveyStation, you can find the parts.

64-bit OS but 32-bit KSP. 

So the "launchpad" part has

// Add Build Capability

	MODULE

	{

	    name = ExLaunchPad

	}

and the "MKS_EL_OrbDock" part (which I've been banging against my head) has

// Add Build Capability

	    MODULE

	    {

	        name = ExLaunchPad

	        SpawnHeightOffset = 3

	    }

As a test I loaded "launchpad" into "Kerbal Space Program\Parts\" to bypass MKS's EL parts filter and opened the sandbox. I got the survey station, which I filled with kerbals and put on the runway. I sent Jeb out to hammer a stake in the ground and went back inside. There was no construction button when I right clicked on the survey station. All I can think to try next is to reinstall all the mods I have loaded. I appreciate your help. 

[goldenpsp]

14 minutes ago, SquidDNA said:

64-bit OS but 32-bit KSP. 

So the "launchpad" part has

 

// Add Build Capability

	MODULE

	{

	    name = ExLaunchPad

	}

and the "MKS_EL_OrbDock" part (which I've been banging against my head) has

 

// Add Build Capability

	    MODULE

	    {

	        name = ExLaunchPad

	        SpawnHeightOffset = 3

	    }

As a test I loaded "launchpad" into "Kerbal Space Program\Parts\" to bypass MKS's EL parts filter and opened the sandbox. I got the survey station, which I filled with kerbals and put on the runway. I sent Jeb out to hammer a stake in the ground and went back inside. There was no construction button when I right clicked on the survey station. All I can think to try next is to reinstall all the mods I have loaded. I appreciate your help. 

Just a general FYI, but parts often are path sensitive.  I have seen weirdness when trying to "move" parts into different folders.  You would be better off simply deleting the EL_Parts.cfg out of the Umbraspaceindustries\Kolonization folder to test.  This is the file that hides the EL parts.

[taniwha]

19 hours ago, SquidDNA said:

64-bit OS but 32-bit KSP. 

Yeah, that should be fine. I don't see any errors in the configs you posted. Try goldenpsp's advice first and if you don't get things going, send me your KSP.log, there might be a clue in there.

20 hours ago, sh1pman said:

EDIT: Probably related to KIS, reverted back to the previous version, and it works fine again.

Has KIS updated again? I thought I was subscribed, but it seems only to KAS.

Just checked, and sure enough. I guess he changed some config things yet again

 

[oglommi]

On 22.2.2016 at 3:33 PM, sh1pman said:

Don't know if it's a bug or not, but the game tells me I can't attach stakes to the ground. If I put them on the ground without attaching, however, they just explode a couple of seconds later. Which is clearly not supposed to happen. So, what am I doing wrong?

EDIT: Probably related to KIS, reverted back to the previous version, and it works fine again.

 

I got the same problem

[MatterBeam]

On 16/02/2015 at 10:54 AM, taniwha said:

Mekan1k: what's wrong with carbon-based Von-Neumann machines?

Now for the serious reply: the code for "free" builds no longer exists, and it was removed with extreme glee. One of EL's purposes is to encourage manned (kerbaled (hmm, one l or two?)) space exploration. That said, I have decided that I will do up some sort of automated construction, but it will not be in EL itself. It will, however, require all the resources EL does, and maybe even some more.

Hi!

Has anything come of this? I've had players requesting that I look into creating 'automated construction' parts, and I'd like to know if it is possible with the current EPL files.

[gamerscircle]

I have a question about EPL and was curious if anyone would be able to chime in?

After about 3 weeks, I finally got the resources and the refining process in place.  I am not able to use EPL to construct things, but it would appear that anything and everything comes through "empty".

This is the USI integration.

thank you

[MatterBeam]

28 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

I have a question about EPL and was curious if anyone would be able to chime in?

After about 3 weeks, I finally got the resources and the refining process in place.  I am not able to use EPL to construct things, but it would appear that anything and everything comes through "empty".

This is the USI integration.

thank you

Check that you have Launchpads.dll in your folders somewhere.

MY installs generally have a Extraplanetary launchpads folder (with parts removed) plus USI next to it.

[gamerscircle]

1 hour ago, MatterBeam said:

Check that you have Launchpads.dll in your folders somewhere.

MY installs generally have a Extraplanetary launchpads folder (with parts removed) plus USI next to it.

Lets see:
\GameData\ExtraplanetaryLaunchpads\Plugins - I have -

KSPAPIExtensions.dll
Launchpad.dll

Is that correct?