Why is it so hard to play this game...

[rkman]

Why is it so hard to play this game without mods?

Because it is not yet finished.

[Hyomoto]

While I agree that many atmospheric mods like volumetric clouds and distance objects are very enjoyable but I use part mods far less. So I wouldn't say I find it necessary, especially since the compliment of parts has expanded to the point that anything mods add is just a better/different version of things I already have.

[xcorps]

I don't think it's ..hard..

But it is tedious as hell.

I'm pretty sure I would have shelved it without Engineer and Mechjeb.

[ArmchairGravy]

So, what you're saying is that you use KER and Kethane because they make your game worse? Man, that's pretty sad...

Way to be deliberately obtuse. I think you know very well what I'm saying, but don't want to admit it because it undermines your point that your favorite mods are the way the game should be played by all. Don't worry, it's a common affliction that can be cured by realizing people are different. What makes KSP great is that people can create the gaming experience they want without being afflicted by the stuff they don't care about.

[regex]

Way to be deliberately obtuse.

I'm not being obtuse at all, I'm reacting to you basically coming into this thread to crap on someone who shared your exact feelings. I mean, look at CalculusWarrior's post here:

I agree, it really says something about the quality of a game by how much it keeps players interested in modifying it to make it even better.

And then look at what you posted here:

What makes KSP great is that people can create the gaming experience they want without being afflicted by the stuff they don't care about.

You're saying the same thing. You just have this sort of "OHEMGEE SOMEONE IS SAYING SOMEHTING BAD ABOUT HOW IM PLAYING A SINGLE PLAYER GAME DONT TREAD ON MY PLAYSTYLE" knee-jerk reaction to people saying "MODS ARE GREAT". Meanwhile, you use mods to make your game better. It's hilarious that we basically have this "touchy-feely" camp of players who deliberately don't bother seeing someone else's valid, supporting point of view because it means they might have to agree with some other random person's post earlier that they don't want to agree with. It's stupid to act that way; you're either or a troll or you're being deliberately obtuse.

I literally don't care if you have a dissenting view, and you can post dissenting views here (as others have), but coming into a thread to crap on someone who agrees with you is just dumb.

[ArmchairGravy]

I'm not being obtuse at all, I'm reacting to you basically coming into this thread to crap on someone who shared your exact feelings. I mean, look at CalculusWarrior's post here:

And then look at what you posted here:

You're saying the same thing. You just have this sort of "OHEMGEE SOMEONE IS SAYING SOMEHTING BAD ABOUT HOW IM PLAYING A SINGLE PLAYER GAME DONT TREAD ON MY PLAYSTYLE" knee-jerk reaction to people saying "MODS ARE GREAT". Meanwhile, you use mods to make your game better. It's hilarious that we basically have this "touchy-feely" camp of players who deliberately don't bother seeing someone else's valid, supporting point of view because it means they might have to agree with some other random person's post earlier that they don't want to agree with. It's stupid to act that way; you're either or a troll or you're being deliberately obtuse.

I literally don't care if you have a dissenting view, and you can post dissenting views here (as others have), but coming into a thread to crap on someone who agrees with you is just dumb.

I'm not trying to crap on anybody. I'm just trying to point out that "better" is in the eye of the beholder. It's less divisive to say "matches my play style". Your OP was that you want a certain set of mods installed because without them the game doesn't match your play style. I have no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is people saying this game sucks unless you have (insert mods) installed. I'm not saying you or Calculus said that, but it is something I've seen said time and again on this forum, and I would like to see it stopped. We all have different ways of playing this game with the various mods out there. However, we need to respect the fact that all the different ways are equally valid. That's what I'm trying to get across, and I'm sorry for the poor communication on my part.

Edited April 4, 2014 by ArmchairGravy

[CaptainKipard]

I think ArmchairGravy was just making a semantic point, there's no need to argue here. You're both right in a way, it's just that ArmchairGravy tried to say it more diplomatically at first.

[regex]

I'm just trying to point out that "better" is in the eye of the beholder. It's less divisive to say "matches my play style".

This is just touchy-feely semantics (politically correct nonsense); they basically saying the same thing.

Your OP was that you want a certain set of mods installed because without them the game doesn't match your play style. I have no problem with this. What I do have a problem with is people saying this game sucks unless you have (insert mods) installed. I'm not saying you or Calculus said that, but it is something I've seen said time and again on this forum, and I would like to see it stopped.

I have never seen the bolded part except as part of an obvious troll to bait the touchy-feely MechJeb/"my playstyle is valid" crowd. Report it to the mods as trolling and don't rise to the bait. Then realize that everyone has an opinion here and sometimes we just want to talk about our opinions on an open forum, and we're not trying to rain on your parade or make you do things against your will (not that anyone actually can and if you believe that I have a tower in downtown Dubai to sell you), and that basically the devs are going to make the game they want to see.

[RW-1]

Hi Gang,

New to the board, had the game for the last three months, first update was ARM.

If I may, let me lay out a newb's opinion to the mix.

When I started, coming from orbiter, I already has a basic OM knowledgebase.

Two modes, career and sandbox, boy looking at sandbox felt intimidating to say the least, all those parts available, what to do with them?

I felt better limiting myself to career mode, the gratification of achieving goals with the payback of unlocking stuff to accomplish more.

I've hit sandbox a couple times, and found myself leaving, because though it's fun, I wasn't getting a cookie from it.

As to mods, I haven't touched them yet, as I felt I should attempt to play the base product as is, but I think sooner or later I'll add, just as I did with FSX and Orbiter as well.

As to mechjeb, damn, that's a huge fence to traverse. As a pilot, I've no problem with it, it avoids repetition, and let's face it - no one has manually flown the shuttle or saturn's on ascent, it's all monitored. so we're not breaking a real life coda or anything. However I like the satisfaction of being able to fly the ship up into orbit - again personal satisfaction that you can hit your target altitude and with near zero eccentricity.

Right now though, I'm pure stock.

As far as I see it - if you play KSP - you're part of the community - doesn't matter what you use with it or not - you were drawn in by KSP itself.

If mods make it better/easier for you, by all means enjoy! (I saw earlier that there are visual mods- atmospherics? Hmmm ... that won't affect my gameplay but certainly up the eye candy ....)

[regex]

(I saw earlier that there are visual mods- atmospherics? Hmmm ... that won't affect my gameplay but certainly up the eye candy ....)

Do it, you'll love it. EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements, Texture Replacer, Hot Rockets, Cool Rockets, and I think there's one other that's pretty recent... Anyway, I only use the first two, haven't tried the others even though they look awesome.

[Vanamonde]

As always, we ask that folks talk about the subject of the thread and not each other's personalities. Dial back the anger, okay guys?

[Blaster]

Could it be simply the fact that this game is hard to play because it is actually Rocket Science?

[SeventhArchitect]

You have problems playing Kerbal Space Program? In a joking sense, you'd ahve o be stupid to have a ahrd time playing KSP.

In a real, true-sounding response, KSP is not for the weaker-minded, weakly-influence, or those with short attention spans. I learned from teh beginning that making big rockets is NOT where you start, yet I did.

This is LITERALY rocket science. If you don't have at least a simple understanding of Rocket science, you will for sure have ahard time playing KSP.

[RocketBlam]

The only mod I really need is MechJeb, but I've never tried FAR.

I can do without MechJeb for Minmus and Mun landings and return, but getting to the planets is just too much of a crap shoot without it. Also, after having manually flown about 1000 llaunches, using Ascent Guidance is not a necessity, it's just a way to automate one of the parts of the game I have mastered.

[Levelord]

In a real, true-sounding response, KSP is not for the weaker-minded, weakly-influence, or those with short attention spans. I learned from teh beginning that making big rockets is NOT where you start, yet I did.

I'm guessing KSP would be a poor educational tool in schools, because you've just described children.

The irony is that the OP is talking about things that the game is missing which would be actual rocket science. For example, the current aerodynamics has nothing in common with how real life aerodynamics work and that re-entry effects are purely aesthetic and have no impact on your craft's damage.

[cantab]

For getting to the other planets you just need some method to figure out your ejection delta-V and angle. That can be a mod, it can equally well be an external tool such as alexmoon's planner, or if you want to do things the old fashioned way it can be a pen and paper and a calculator.

Of course I can see why having a mod right in the game is helpful, especially if you don't have the screen real estate to have KSP and a web browser open together.

As for who KSP is for, well it's a game where failing spectacularly can be just as much fun as succeeding. In its current state it is a game where you'll need initiative, it doesn't handhold you or give you specific instructions to do stuff, but it's not a game where you have to be all sophisticated and technical to have some fun.

Edited April 6, 2014 by cantab

[Hodo]

I can't play stock anymore, much like the OP said. The stock aerodynamic model is, to be polite, laughable. Anyone who thinks they have built a rocket that would work anywhere but in the stock KSP is fooling themselves. After a day with the game I downloaded FAR and DRE, so I could have a game that responded the way I expected real life aircraft to respond.

With that said do I think that KSP needs to have FAR and DRE, no, but I do think it needs to be an option in the settings. Some players want to play LEGO rockets and just launch things that make no logical sense into space and that is fine.

[R0cketC0der]

The reason I can't play without mods is that all the fun parts are gone.

I barely need to worry about aerodynamic design without FAR, I don't need to worry about reentry damage without deadly reentry, IVA is useless without RasterPropMonitor and the only use of EVAs without KAS is collecting science and repairing rover wheels.