[1.12.X] Tantares - Stockalike Soyuz and MIR [16.1][28.05.2024][Mars Expedition WIP]

[MashAndBangers]

33 minutes ago, hendrack said:

Voshkod

Never heard of this Voskhod.  Two or 3 people in a Vostock pod?  Bah, unbelievable.  And an inflatable airlock?  Can't be done.  Don't come in here with made up craft.

 

 

This post brought to you by heavy sarcasm.

 

 

Welcome to page 767!

Edited July 19, 2020 by MashAndBangers

[hendrack]

Hence the "obscure" reference remark, I'll wager this was some proposed stuff, or something entirely made up.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Beale said:

 

@Dragon01 There is no definitive evidence of this. Provide a source or provide a disclaimer that this is your opinion.

It's a fact not an opinion, one supported by the few color photos from the era which survived in a relatively good condition (Soviet film of the time wasn't very good in first place, and it didn't age well, either).

In the second pic, look at the very bottom of the rocket, next to the square launchpad elements you can see a bit of the kerosene tank. It shows the familiar gray color, darker than the gantry arms and service masts next to them. Also note the whole photo has a beige tint, this is the case with most photos showing a beige R7. 

Note that ICBM versions were apparently painted white, at least early on.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/r7.html
On some R7 rockets, structural elements (intertanks and so on) were also painted white, I don't know if the reason was aesthetics or trying to mask the intertank's position. At any rate, the only green part was the fairing nosecone on some Voskhod and Molniya launches.

BTW, can you use CAD drawings or at least STLs for pull requests? I can't use the likes of Blender (missing too many basic features I need), but if you can use a mesh made in a real modeling program, I can see what I can do. 

[sirkut]

24 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

It's a fact not an opinion, one supported by the few color photos from the era which survived in a relatively good condition (Soviet film of the time wasn't very good in first place, and it didn't age well, either).

In the second pic, look at the very bottom of the rocket, next to the square launchpad elements you can see a bit of the kerosene tank. It shows the familiar gray color, darker than the gantry arms and service masts next to them. Also note the whole photo has a beige tint, this is the case with most photos showing a beige R7. 

Note that ICBM versions were apparently painted white, at least early on.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/r7.html
On some R7 rockets, structural elements (intertanks and so on) were also painted white, I don't know if the reason was aesthetics or trying to mask the intertank's position. At any rate, the only green part was the fairing nosecone on some Voskhod and Molniya launches.

BTW, can you use CAD drawings or at least STLs for pull requests? I can't use the likes of Blender (missing too many basic features I need), but if you can use a mesh made in a real modeling program, I can see what I can do. 

A real modelling program? Bruh...

[Beale]

31 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

It's a fact not an opinion, one supported by the few color photos from the era which survived in a relatively good condition (Soviet film of the time wasn't very good in first place, and it didn't age well, either).

In the second pic, look at the very bottom of the rocket, next to the square launchpad elements you can see a bit of the kerosene tank. It shows the familiar gray color, darker than the gantry arms and service masts next to them. Also note the whole photo has a beige tint, this is the case with most photos showing a beige R7. 

Note that ICBM versions were apparently painted white, at least early on.
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/r7.html
On some R7 rockets, structural elements (intertanks and so on) were also painted white, I don't know if the reason was aesthetics or trying to mask the intertank's position. At any rate, the only green part was the fairing nosecone on some Voskhod and Molniya launches.

BTW, can you use CAD drawings or at least STLs for pull requests? I can't use the likes of Blender (missing too many basic features I need), but if you can use a mesh made in a real modeling program, I can see what I can do. 

That's not a source, those are a couple of old photos. There have been over 1700 launches of the Soyuz, you'll need to find colour pictures of them all to settle it that way. Alternatively, an actual source would do.

Pull requests must be KSP compliant, which means the models are produced in software designed for real-time software applications (I.E. not CA Design software, which is incredibly wasteful for these applications), the standard format criteria should also be met (MU format, 24-sided, or 48-sided depending on diameter). If you're not capable of meeting these standards please commit your time to learning the correct software.

[oniontrain]

This is very interesting. For some reason R-7 missile is usually illustrated as being green, even in that Russian source. Are there any of the missile versions sitting around in rocket parks in Russia or Kazakhstan that were this color or something?

[Beale]

9 minutes ago, oniontrain said:

This is very interesting. For some reason R-7 missile is usually illustrated as being green, even in that Russian source. Are there any of the missile versions sitting around in rocket parks in Russia or Kazakhstan that were this color or something?

I think you often got Topol and other rockets painted that way for military parades, which definitely could bleed over into popular culture. Interested to know where it comes from otherwise

[MashAndBangers]

Green is good and all, but you all are missing the true rocket pattern:

 

[Guest]

On a semi - related note , has anyone found a source as to why early Soyuz , Salyut , Almaz , and TKS spacecraft had green thermal blankets ? I have asked around quite a lot and haven t really found a definitive answer .

[Guest]

Because they were military projects. The green color on the hull (seen on some station sections, for example) was actually OD Green straight off lend-lease US Army jeeps. Thermal blankets were lighter in color, which gave them a particularly obnoxious shade. 

1 hour ago, Beale said:

That's not a source, those are a couple of old photos. There have been over 1700 launches of the Soyuz, you'll need to find colour pictures of them all to settle it that way. Alternatively, an actual source would do.

If by "actual source" you mean "Soviet-era technical documentation", then that's hard to come by in digital form. Most people who want an accurate color work with pictures, like so:
https://vostoksupersite.weebly.com/true-vostok.html
http://www.ninfinger.org/models/rms_tips/colors.html

Quote

Pull requests must be KSP compliant, which means the models are produced in software designed for real-time software applications (I.E. not CA Design software, which is incredibly wasteful for these applications), the standard format criteria should also be met (MU format, 24-sided, or 48-sided depending on diameter). If you're not capable of meeting these standards please commit your time to learning the correct software.

Well, if I ever find modeling software that doesn't make even simple tasks (such as making a horizontal circular hole in a vertical cylinder) arduous, I'll consider it. From my experiences so far, none of them have much in terms of such features. What takes me 10 seconds in CAD will take 10 minutes of groveling over vertices in Blender, and that's after figuring out the obtuse UI (skip the last part for Wings, replace with wrangling an unusable UV mapper later on). No thanks. 

I'd ask why can't you just make a version of the engine that has all the nozzles replaced with mounting holes, but I figure that's probably one of the "jump through flaming hoops while singing Chinese anthem backwards" tasks for an "artistic" modeling program.

[Beale]

47 minutes ago, Dragon01 said:

Because they were military projects. The green color on the hull (seen on some station sections, for example) was actually OD Green straight off lend-lease US Army jeeps. Thermal blankets were lighter in color, which gave them a particularly obnoxious shade. 

If by "actual source" you mean "Soviet-era technical documentation", then that's hard to come by in digital form. Most people who want an accurate color work with pictures, like so:
https://vostoksupersite.weebly.com/true-vostok.html
http://www.ninfinger.org/models/rms_tips/colors.html

Well, if I ever find modeling software that doesn't make even simple tasks (such as making a horizontal circular hole in a vertical cylinder) arduous, I'll consider it. From my experiences so far, none of them have much in terms of such features. What takes me 10 seconds in CAD will take 10 minutes of groveling over vertices in Blender, and that's after figuring out the obtuse UI (skip the last part for Wings, replace with wrangling an unusable UV mapper later on). No thanks. 

I'd ask why can't you just make a version of the engine that has all the nozzles replaced with mounting holes, but I figure that's probably one of the "jump through flaming hoops while singing Chinese anthem backwards" tasks for an "artistic" modeling program.

You don't have any sources then. Gotcha.

In experience the Wings3D UV mapper is fantastic, and likewise blender's toolset is incredibly mature and functional, fast becoming an industry standard - ask folks like taniwha for example.

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/40056-12-17-blender-280-mu-importexport-addon/

 

It sounds like a lack of experience in both applications, or "giving up at the first hurdle", so to speak. Modifying the Blok a to use nodes is a trivial task.

I can recommend several good series on improving your skills in these software, when I have some free time. But that tends to be lacking with a job and a young one.

Genuine offers only to make pull requests in future please.

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Beale

[KeaKaka]

4 hours ago, hendrack said:

That would be my favorite repaint ever in KSP:

You can get that via Tantares now in colours

[sirkut]

1 hour ago, Dragon01 said:

Because they were military projects. The green color on the hull (seen on some station sections, for example) was actually OD Green straight off lend-lease US Army jeeps. Thermal blankets were lighter in color, which gave them a particularly obnoxious shade. 

If by "actual source" you mean "Soviet-era technical documentation", then that's hard to come by in digital form. Most people who want an accurate color work with pictures, like so:
https://vostoksupersite.weebly.com/true-vostok.html
http://www.ninfinger.org/models/rms_tips/colors.html

Well, if I ever find modeling software that doesn't make even simple tasks (such as making a horizontal circular hole in a vertical cylinder) arduous, I'll consider it. From my experiences so far, none of them have much in terms of such features. What takes me 10 seconds in CAD will take 10 minutes of groveling over vertices in Blender, and that's after figuring out the obtuse UI (skip the last part for Wings, replace with wrangling an unusable UV mapper later on). No thanks. 

I'd ask why can't you just make a version of the engine that has all the nozzles replaced with mounting holes, but I figure that's probably one of the "jump through flaming hoops while singing Chinese anthem backwards" tasks for an "artistic" modeling program.

Your simple yet somehow difficult task in blender is mad easy. I stepped away from coding mods to work on my modeling/texture skills using Blender. If I can do it, I know you can. 

[davidy12]

33 minutes ago, sirkut said:

Your simple yet somehow difficult task in blender is mad easy. I stepped away from coding mods to work on my modeling/texture skills using Blender. If I can do it, I know you can. 

Damn, stockalike CommSats

 

NOICE!

[Random Annoying Guy]

On 7/18/2020 at 3:52 PM, Beale said:

well rip early n1 engine shape i guess

might be possible to recreate with fairings

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, sirkut said:

Your simple yet somehow difficult task in blender is mad easy. I stepped away from coding mods to work on my modeling/texture skills using Blender. If I can do it, I know you can. 

Nice work, but I certainly don't see any holes in the sides.  Extruding cylinders is easy, it's messing with their sides that's much less straightforward than in CAD. Of course, I can make a polygoal "cylinder" in CAD if I want to (and work with it just as easily as with an actual cylinder), so perhaps it's just a matter of designing these things in a particular way.

Besides, if I ever go through the trouble doing that either way, I'm gonna make my own mod. Not worth doing that to only make a single part. Besides, any part I'd contribute would needs its own texture sheet, which would be a waste of memory, unless I followed the engine's geometry so slavishly as to be able to reuse the 1st stage atlas for the mount, and that would certainly be more effort than it's worth. Heck, Cobalt could probably cram all three onto a single texture atlas, if going by how efficient his latest stuff is.

That, or I can go the "easy" way, remove the engine module from the main engine part and clip 30 NK-33s inside. Come to think of it, this is a way more Kerbal way of handling this.  

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Random Annoying Guy said:

well rip early n1 engine shape i guess

might be possible to recreate with fairings

Tough luck I guess

[Beale]

NK-33 mockup.

quick AO bake and colours

[Beale]

Basic features mapped out.

You can track this project on GitHub

https://github.com/Tantares/Tantares/projects/10

Edited July 20, 2020 by Beale

[Zarbon44]

6 minutes ago, Beale said:

Basic features mapped out.

You can track this project on GitHub

https://github.com/Tantares/Tantares/projects/10

Cant wait to see those fail on my next launch! /s

[oniontrain]

I've been checking stuff out in 1.10, and it seems the only things that aren't working are the fairings, which was expected. I haven't tried every single part yet, but everything loads.

[Beale]

14 hours ago, oniontrain said:

I've been checking stuff out in 1.10, and it seems the only things that aren't working are the fairings, which was expected. I haven't tried every single part yet, but everything loads.

Thanks for testing things out.

We are waiting primarily for a fix to the fairings, which should come with 1.10.1.

[Beale]

Edited July 21, 2020 by Beale

[MashAndBangers]

16 minutes ago, Beale said:

 

Förbidden Lämp

[MOARdV]

3 hours ago, MashAndBangers said:

Förbidden Lämp

I remember seeing Förbidden Lämp open for Unplanned Rapid Disassembly in the Whisky a Go Go back in '89.

Anyway... I'll go back to waiting (im)patiently for N-1.