0.25 Discussion thread

[Alshain]

That begs the question of why Porkjet used the firespitter dll in the first place. The only other parts in SP+ that call an animation module are the cockpits and crew cabin (for lighting changes), they use the generic animation calls. Only the cargo bays use firespitter, so it would seem that something about their functionality requires it.

Why write something your self when someone else did it for you? Naturally Squad would rewrite this functionality as necessary rather than including Firespitter, as Maxmaps mentioned they prefer to have the control when possible. That's sort of the idea behind libraries in programming, don't reinvent the wheel.

[Red Iron Crown]

Why write something your self when someone else did it for you? Naturally Squad would rewrite this functionality as necessary rather than including Firespitter, as Maxmaps mentioned they prefer to have the control when possible. That's sort of the idea behind libraries in programming, don't reinvent the wheel.

I get that, though for a mod it's a bit complicated as you either have to declare the dependency and hope the users install it or bundle it and update when the dependency updates. My point was that it hasn't been demonstrated that implementing the cargo bays without it is "really easy"; the hint at a possible delay in the addition of the bays would seem to support the fact that it's not all that easy.

Hopefully Squad will either reimplement firespitter or buy it outright for inclusion, that would make mods that need its functionality easier to make and distribute.

[Alshain]

I get that, though for a mod it's a bit complicated as you either have to declare the dependency and hope the users install it or bundle it and update when the dependency updates. My point was that it hasn't been demonstrated that implementing the cargo bays without it is "really easy"; the hint at a possible delay in the addition of the bays would seem to support the fact that it's not all that easy.

Hopefully Squad will either reimplement firespitter or buy it outright for inclusion, that would make mods that need its functionality easier to make and distribute.

Depends on how you define "really easy". I don't think Porkjet is a programmer (correct me if I'm wrong). So he had no choice but to rely on it. For Squad it would be really easy. Heck, for me it would be only mildly difficult. But for a modeler with little programming experience, best look to what's available out of the box.

Some of the mod devs are brilliant modelers but have difficulty just writing the configuration scripts. They are artists, not software developers (which is arguably a different kind of art).

Edited September 8, 2014 by Alshain

[Red Iron Crown]

Depends on how you define "really easy". I don't think Porkjet is a programmer (correct me if I'm wrong). So he had no choice but to rely on it. For Squad it would be really easy. Heck, for me it would be only mildly difficult.

So why the hints at delay of the bays? That's a bit rhetorical, of course.

[eataTREE]

So why the hints at delay of the bays? That's a bit rhetorical, of course.

It may simply be expectations management. Tell people things might be late, then they will be impressed when you are on time.

There's also the fact that Squad must account for not only all the features that are in the game right now, but those features that are going to be included but haven't made it in yet. Perhaps Porkjet's cargo bay, as written, breaks Secret Feature X and thus needs a tweak.

Having worked in software basically my whole adult life, I can assure you that there are a million good reasons for a project, or a particular part of the project, to be delayed, few of which would be visible to someone who isn't working on the project themselves. Patience is a must.

[monophonic]

Also Firespitter source license is not friendly towards inclusion into stock. Squad's lawyers probably told them not to even glimpse at that. Which kind of makes it difficult to replicate the exact functionality.

I know this legal stuff is stupid, but what can you do especially when running a business? You either cover your butt at all times or sooner or later someone owns it in court.

[qromodynmc]

I dont understand all the things going on but,Is this really that hard to make working cargo bays? I mean people making cargo bays from docking ports

[Linear]

Also Firespitter source license is not friendly towards inclusion into stock. Squad's lawyers probably told them not to even glimpse at that. Which kind of makes it difficult to replicate the exact functionality.

I know this legal stuff is stupid, but what can you do especially when running a business? You either cover your butt at all times or sooner or later someone owns it in court.

They'd be buying it, the license isn't even relevant.

[Alshain]

They'd be buying it, the license isn't even relevant.

I was just about to say that.

[monophonic]

I dont understand all the things going on but,Is this really that hard to make working cargo bays? I mean people making cargo bays from docking ports

In software development, as in all life, "not hard" often does not mean "not laborious." A seemingly simple functionality may require dozens of tiny changes in apparently completely unrelated places just to keep old stuff from breaking. Of course good design can alleviate that, but then you spend time coming up with the good design for the new stuff instead.

And who knows what else Squad wants to use the new module for? They have said and demonstrated they want to make robust and adaptable features.

[Wanderfound]

I'm almost certainly going to be disappointed, but I'm hoping that the possible delay is in order to make the collision meshes move with the doors. Do that, and loading ramps are next...

[monophonic]

They'd be buying it, the license isn't even relevant.

Who is the author? Is the code even for sale? What is the asking price when it is known that they need it for stuff they already bought? How long would the negotiations take? Do they even have cash in hand for new acquisitions?

Too many unanswered questions to consider "just buy it" any simpler than coding their own.

[Franklin]

Who is the author? Is the code even for sale? What is the asking price when it is known that they need it for stuff they already bought? How long would the negotiations take? Do they even have cash in hand for new acquisitions?

Too many unanswered questions to consider "just buy it" any simpler than coding their own.

I mean this debate over some silly maybe-delayed animation has been strung on for far too long as it is, but yeah, when you've got a staff full of coders and you're trying to make a deadline and a profit on a product, you don't buy every third-party snippet you need. You code a copy yourself. It might push the deadline but it's less painless in the long-run and more appropriate given your staff's skillset.

[Alshain]

Who is the author? Is the code even for sale? What is the asking price when it is known that they need it for stuff they already bought? How long would the negotiations take? Do they even have cash in hand for new acquisitions?

Too many unanswered questions to consider "just buy it" any simpler than coding their own.

Your falling victim to a theoretical scenario. In theoretical scenarios you generally accept some given. In this case the given is that they would acquire Firespitter somehow, doesn't matter how. We already had the discussion of them coding it themselves on the last page (which is far far more likely to happen).

[AlexanderB]

Why do we even need firespitter for the animated doors? Can't the devs use the same animation code used for the inline clampotron?

[Sky_walker]

Why do we even need firespitter for the animated doors? Can't the devs use the same animation code used for the inline clampotron?

Yes, devs are working on that.

Only thing is that they need a robust solution as it's quite certain that modders will want to use native code base instead of Firespitter's once it's available.

[Alshain]

Why do we even need firespitter for the animated doors? Can't the devs use the same animation code used for the inline clampotron?

You don't NEED it. Mod devs like it because it's easy.

[Red Iron Crown]

I'm almost certainly going to be disappointed, but I'm hoping that the possible delay is in order to make the collision meshes move with the doors. Do that, and loading ramps are next...

That would be capital-A Awesome! I've been wanting to line cargo bay doors in SP+ with OX-STATs, and the possibilities for what modders could do with that are endless.

***

I feel a bit responsible for the firespitter derail here, I think I might have started the whole thing by suggesting that the lack of the dll might be the difficulty. We don't even know that for sure, or if it's just that 0.25 is close enough that they won't be ready in time. Honestly, it's good just knowing the bays are in the pipeline.

[bonyetty]

My guess at the secret feature of 0.25 is that Kerbals will go splat not poof. Requires animation and I think Harvister would not see it but would love seeing it when playing KSP.

Probably more of a hope. It would be an animation way worthwhile and make players laugh moar.

[Wanderfound]

My guess at the secret feature of 0.25 is that Kerbals will go splat not poof. Requires animation and I think Harvister would not see it but would love seeing it when playing KSP.

Probably more of a hope. It would be an animation way worthwhile and make players laugh moar.

But should they splat or splash? Just what is inside a Kerbal, anyway?

Might have to drop a few from orbit to find out. For science!

[bonyetty]

Now grey dust. 0.25 no mystery, green goo.

Edited September 11, 2014 by bonyetty

[eurybaric]

I always read these threads backwards, man..

[TimberWolffe]

I don't care about any secret features, just as long as I get a proper, fitting Mk.2 nosecone to use with the inline cockpit I'll be happy.

[Starwhip]

When the Hype starts coming, we should be careful not to summon the Hype Kraken. It bewitches the devs with bugs, slowing down the release and depleting the HypeTrain's speed.

And if you guys haven't seen this yet:

Something new is arriving, and it's not the admin building.

[Wanderfound]

When the Hype starts coming, we should be careful not to summon the Hype Kraken. It bewitches the devs with bugs, slowing down the release and depleting the HypeTrain's speed.

And if you guys haven't seen this yet:

http://i59.tinypic.com/dmy3uo.png

Something new is arriving, and it's not the admin building.

We have now apparently invented Kerbal Paparazzi.

Love it.