Jump to content

[1.2.2] B9 Aerospace | Release 6.2.1 (Old Thread)

bac9

By bac9
in KSP1 Mod Releases

 Share

Recommended Posts

danfarnsy

danfarnsy

Posted
Posted
If you're getting impatient open up some configs and start updating cost and temperature values to equivalents in the squad parts. This isn't going to happen quickly if it's just me working on it.

I don't see a list of completed / to-do items in the bitbucket stuff. Have some of the parts already been done, or can I just start at the top of the parts list and work my way down?

- - - Updated - - -

So as far as an official release compatible with 1.0, not a beta, how far off are we? Starting to get impatient....

And THIS, sir, is supremely rude. I'm glad you love this mod. I love it too. Bac9, K3|Chris, and Taverius (with some other talented contributors too) made something awesome, and Blowfish has stepped up to the plate, taking the lead, and spending his free time to work on making it up-to-date. And every once in a while, some bystanding non-contributor steps up to voice their opinion that some stranger they never met, who owes them nothing, is going too slow. Contribute, or voice your thanks for the effort that somebody else is doing to bring awesomeness back into your life. But expressing your eagerness like this reminds me too much of my young children when they need a nap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
blowfish

blowfish

Posted
Posted
I don't see a list of completed / to-do items in the bitbucket stuff. Have some of the parts already been done, or can I just start at the top of the parts list and work my way down?

I haven't made a part by part list anywhere, but here are some general guidelines: Everything except fuel tanks should have its cost and entry cost checked against Squad parts (it's possible fuel tanks are out of balance too, but I don't understand Taverius's balancing scheme and don't really want to mess with it). As far as temperature goes, I've done engines and intakes but everything else still needs to be checked. Mass should be looked at on some parts too, particularly command modules. That's a lot, so don't feel overwhelmed if you want to contribute - you don't need to address all of that or even all of any individual section. Just do what you can and send me the updates :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hani

Hani

Posted
Posted

Thank you very much for the release, this is by far the best pack I have seen for KSP, I just have one question, I understand that it is not compatible with 1.x versions, but is it compatible with 0.25 version? If no, is there any way I can make it compatible?

Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
run1235

run1235

Posted
Posted
Thank you very much for the release, this is by far the best pack I have seen for KSP, I just have one question, I understand that it is not compatible with 1.x versions, but is it compatible with 0.25 version? If no, is there any way I can make it compatible?

Thank you!

look in blowfishes signature, you can download the port and that will work with 1.0.X with a few exceptions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
danfarnsy

danfarnsy

Posted
Posted
Everything except fuel tanks should have its cost and entry cost checked against Squad parts

I'm going through Squad's parts. It's going to be fun using them as guidelines when they're totally self-inconsistent and schizophrenic. Did Squad have guidelines? Why does this tank have a crash tolerance of kleenex while this other one can survive the apocalypse? Why are porkjet's parts nearly perfect radiators (which can also survive 50 m/s crashes)? Why are so many airplane wings able to handle temperatures up to 2500 K or more, way past the melting point of steel, but the basic fin explodes at aluminum's meltpoint? Sometimes they want to be sensible or realistic, and sometimes they're like, "This is goofy green men and I'm designing this to be fun!" It depends who is on shift that day.

I'll see if I can identify, for different categories (pods vs structural vs engines vs reaction wheels, etc.), scaling relationships with mass, tech level, and so on. But as it looks from here, I could pick numbers via Magic 8-Ball and it would make as much sense.

Edit: Here's my spreadsheet in progress:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PBo_8ZKvkzaozKsQ3Gw3AT_XKDBsXF6ANr6iyMzRyuc/edit?usp=sharing

Link to comment
Share on other sites
blowfish

blowfish

Posted
Posted

Thanks for sharing that. I suspect the idea is that the spaceplane parts have heat shielding whereas the basic fins do not, but I doubt that's reflected across all of the masses and costs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SpaceToad

SpaceToad

Posted
Posted
If you're getting impatient open up some configs and start updating cost and temperature values to equivalents in the squad parts. This isn't going to happen quickly if it's just me working on it.

Well my apologies then. I have yet to learn to make modifications for KSP. I dont mean to sound rude. If there is a Github where we all can work on this together, cause I would gladly start helping. In postmortem I apologise for my rude comment there. I didnt understand the circumstances on how this is being developed, and it was a very childish thing for me to say.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
blowfish

blowfish

Posted
Posted
Is the maintenance port the one under "download" on blowfish's bitbucket page? The reason I'm asking is, that it is 735 mb and I'm on a crappy restricted mobile connection atm.

The download is only about 80 MB. 735 MB is the size of the entire repository, which includes every version of everything since the repository was created.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
danfarnsy

danfarnsy

Posted
Posted

ModuleManager: 9179 patches applied

But I don't really need to cut back yet. KSP is only using 5.4 GB of memory, and I've got plenty more!

I also understand why it takes so long to update the price and temp values: it's REALLY boring.

I went through Squad's parts, put together as good of statistical information as I could on various comparisons of price, entry price, tech tier, mass, etc. Fuel tanks are easy, they have a consistent enough price/mass ratio. Structural parts, not so much. I tried to categorize some parts as "general aerodynamics," but that was useless too. Essentially, if on a particular measure, such as cost/(techtier*mass), the standard deviation is small enough compared to the average, then I can fit B9's parts that way. But that requires some selective filtering, as "liquid rocket engines" sound good as a category, but the 0.625m engines are way outside the scaling values of any of the larger engines, and it throws the values off. I can also look at other features of parts (intake air radius and speed, electric charge, deflection coefficients, thrust-to-weight ratio, ISP, etc.) and using some sort of multi-dimensional scaling to those values. Maybe. Doing those kinds of statistical fits is both time consuming and often misleading. There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

And I can't even come up with a good lie/guideline for one-of-a-kind-in-stock parts like the RAPIER which I can use for the SABRE. I'll have to decide how the advantages and disadvantages of the SABRE ought to be weighted in the price.

On the plus side, some of the wide variations on Squad's parts gives me latitude to pick a price that sounds reasonable, make sure it falls within a standard deviation of stock's scaling, and move on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
potetr

potetr

Posted
Posted

Just a suggestion: if it is not too much work is it possible to make the heat shielding on (some) parts toggleable? I've always enjoyed the parts of this pack very much and I think this gives them better versatility. Especially the S2 fuselage is good for building bases and other structures.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
blowfish

blowfish

Posted
Posted
Just a suggestion: if it is not too much work is it possible to make the heat shielding on (some) parts toggleable? I've always enjoyed the parts of this pack very much and I think this gives them better versatility. Especially the S2 fuselage is good for building bases and other structures.

Unfortunately there's no mechanism for that currently. You'd need to have a plugin that updates the temperature, and even then, it would only be omni-directional.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
BudgetHedgehog

BudgetHedgehog

Posted
Posted
Unfortunately there's no mechanism for that currently. You'd need to have a plugin that updates the temperature, and even then, it would only be omni-directional.

Even if it's visual only? Bearing in mind I think that the old landing gear had toggleable (non-functioning) heatshielding and that both Firespitter and InterstellerFuelSwitch can switch textures...

Link to comment
Share on other sites
potetr

potetr

Posted
Posted (edited)

I was thinking a visual change only. Like how the RCS thrusters had a "toggle shielding" option. S2 fuselage and S2W are the ones which could benefit the most from having an option to remove the shielding (for building interplanetary vehicles, rovers and bases etc.).

Edited by potetr
clarify
Link to comment
Share on other sites
blowfish

blowfish

Posted
Posted
ModuleManager: 9179 patches applied

But I don't really need to cut back yet. KSP is only using 5.4 GB of memory, and I've got plenty more!

I also understand why it takes so long to update the price and temp values: it's REALLY boring.

I went through Squad's parts, put together as good of statistical information as I could on various comparisons of price, entry price, tech tier, mass, etc. Fuel tanks are easy, they have a consistent enough price/mass ratio. Structural parts, not so much. I tried to categorize some parts as "general aerodynamics," but that was useless too. Essentially, if on a particular measure, such as cost/(techtier*mass), the standard deviation is small enough compared to the average, then I can fit B9's parts that way. But that requires some selective filtering, as "liquid rocket engines" sound good as a category, but the 0.625m engines are way outside the scaling values of any of the larger engines, and it throws the values off. I can also look at other features of parts (intake air radius and speed, electric charge, deflection coefficients, thrust-to-weight ratio, ISP, etc.) and using some sort of multi-dimensional scaling to those values. Maybe. Doing those kinds of statistical fits is both time consuming and often misleading. There are three types of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

And I can't even come up with a good lie/guideline for one-of-a-kind-in-stock parts like the RAPIER which I can use for the SABRE. I'll have to decide how the advantages and disadvantages of the SABRE ought to be weighted in the price.

On the plus side, some of the wide variations on Squad's parts gives me latitude to pick a price that sounds reasonable, make sure it falls within a standard deviation of stock's scaling, and move on.

Wow, nice job. I think this is the best way to do it, yeah.

Flashblade updated the wings' deflectionLiftCoefficient (and I think mass) according to these rules. Not sure about cost (but I'll check the commit log when I get the chance)

Is there any sort of consistency between LFO and LF/Structural parts? There aren't many data points here recall the dry cost between the structural fuselage and Mk1 LF fuselage being rather nonsensical.

- - - Updated - - -

Even if it's visual only? Bearing in mind I think that the old landing gear had toggleable (non-functioning) heatshielding and that both Firespitter and InterstellerFuelSwitch can switch textures...

Visual only would be possible, but I don't have access to the original source files so it's out of my control for the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wolf Baginski

Wolf Baginski

Posted
Posted
Pity... I am craving to play this mod.

Check almos every week to see if there is any news... I guess I´ll have to wait.

Thanks to all modders there!

The mod is getting support and development, just different people. It's mostly game-balance issues at the moment. The WIP version is usable with the current KSP. Check on Blowfish for what's happening. My own use-pattern has been mostly exoatmospheric.

The Mk2 spaceplane fuselage parts were not quite stock-profile, but there's plenty of other Mk2 stuff out there, as well as a test set of revised parts from Bac9. I'm not sure if that's been fully sorted yet.

What I am seeing from the WIP versions is as good as many modders release versions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
danfarnsy

danfarnsy

Posted
Posted
Can someone point me to the right thread # with the instructions for installing the WIP version? Thanks!

The WIP version is available in a link in blowfish's signature block. Here it is as well: https://bitbucket.org/blowfishpro/b9-aerospace/downloads While the page there says the download is 735 MB, that's the size of the entire repository. When you click the download link, the actual download is around 73 MB. Install by opening the .zip file and copying the contents of /GameData into your KSP folder, minus B9_Aerospace_DEPRECATED. Most everything is working, with a few exceptions. Air brakes might be one of those exceptions. I haven't finished my price-balancing project for career mode yet, either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
run1235

run1235

Posted
Posted
Even BDarmory get 2 updates since 1.0

And B9 still not.

I'm really interested what so hard can be in B9 to make it compatible to 1.0?

BD armory is more creative parts that dont need their prices and such balanced with career mode nor does it have as many parts as b9 does, they are having to go through all the parts, making them compatible with the new aerodynamics, adding new drag models, updating the engine stats, fuels, prices, unlock location in the tech tree, making things unlock at the appropriate times. bd is literally just combat stuff. none of it haveing a proper place in a career mode and as such being a sandbox oriented mod.

and if you think it's that easy to update a mod, why dont you finish it for them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...