[1.2.2] B9 Aerospace | Release 6.2.1 (Old Thread)

[Pappystein]

4 hours ago, kcs123 said:

I can't speak for others, but I will give you my opinion on this topic. I started to use procedural wings from day when it was available to public for the first time. I'm also a big fan of FAR mod. People that use stock aero physics probably will not see advantage of PW as much as FAR users, but there is also advantage for PW usage in stock aero too.

Stock wing parts(and similar fixed size wings from other mods) are good for me only for quick build certain craft types that looks similar in shape. Whenever I try to create craft and research other possibilities that require either wing shape or wing part size that is not available trough premade fixed sized wing part, I run into problem with part numbers, flexing wings, not enough/too much struts to conpensate this, necessary part cliping that not only add to unwanted weight, but also looks ugly and somehow I never can combine fixed wing parts in the shape that I need for my craft at given moment.

Shape of wing is of much more importance with FAR due to area ruling drag calculation than stock aero, but even for stock aero wing shape is not something to ignore. So, my main reasons why to use PW over fixed size parts:

• overall part numbers can be significantly reduced in editor, you will not need any other wing parts than PW when you learn how to use it properly - helps to reduce memory usage, so you can use more other nice mods available
• you can create craft of the same shape and size with much less parts than with fixed size parts
• you can create wing in almost exact shape and size as you want them
• B9PW can hold fuel - only some stock wing parts can hold fuel and only some wing parts from other mods
• aesthetic reasons - you can create more pretty craft - not of highest importance, but not something to ignore either
• most important thing for me - with ability to create wing of desired shape and size you can significantly reduce drag and create with much better lift too - overall wing lift/drag ratio can be raised to new level

 

I to have been using BOTH Pwing mods since I found them.   However I do not use FAR as it seems to be MORE un-realistic to me than it is realistic *OPINION*  However I think KCS123 understated the keys to either Procedural wing mods.

1. In conjunction with the CLAW's stock Bug fixs Stock Bug Fix you can actually create Variable incident Wings that WORK!   Hello F-8 Crusader true functionality   My SSTOs commonly have a VIW with a 2-3 Degree changeable incidence.   AWESOME on landing!
2. you can dramatically lower the part count of your aircraft, and make the aircraft more rigid (sick of having wing panels break off in a high G turn because it is way out there and not enough struts?)
3. Much easier to control the COL placement in relationship to the COM.  
4. More advanced airfoil designs (shape and limited-camber not actual airfoil profile obviously) allows for more complex wings (I Often use Cranked Arrow and Scimitar wings which are hard to construct and keep together on a maneuverable aircraft with stock parts due to the above #2

Oh and lets be honest here.  There are lots of wing parts out there if you don't like Procedural, including the old B9 ones in the Legacy packs.   The B9 design team has decided to no longer create new parts or provide more than basic support for those old parts.   Nuff said.

[mrBlaQ]

20 hours ago, blowfish said:

The B9 airbrake used the same module, so yes, that's not surprising.  I say used, past tense, because I attempted to get the B9 airbrakes on the same system as the stock airbrakes, but they had integration issues, by which I mean half of them would refuse to trigger for no apparent reason.

I saw this same behavior with the stock airbrake. Only one out of a mirrored set would actuate on a custom group or via the standard "Brakes On" button. If I placed multiple mirrored sets, still only one would work. I deleted them all. Messed with other stuff. Came back later and re-added the stock airbrakes again. And, they worked. So.. maybe fiddle a little bit and see if the B9 ones actually work as well as stock. Could you provide your module{} section for me to test with?

[Esquire42]

So slight problem that's annoying enough to make me create an account. I cannot seem to get fuel switching to work on any fuselages. Worked fine a couple days ago, installed a few more mods and now it doesn't. MM says that Firesplitter is outdated but I've manually updated it in the GameData folder and other extraneous folders where the file is located.

[Joshwoo70]

wow.. much rant.. much lost interest.

Ok for the near future I will not touch FAR at all.

Well done guys.

/me slow claps

 

Here is my personal opinions

1. I find FAR EXTREMELY realistic. Too realistic in my opinion. In older days of KSP before 1.0 I would use NEAR which is resembles closely to what stock achieved today.

2. NEAR in my opinion is good enough and I wished that Squad made a close resemblance to NEAR.

Now I am out of this discussion. *hides*

Edited December 18, 2015 by Joshwoo69
opinions

[bnsfc]

So are the HX parts not included in the CKAN download? if not why? to me there one of the big selling points of the pack, as there are manny plane part packs, but no too manny Si-Fi scale mothership parts.

[Virtualgenius]

With the procedural wing is it possible to make the ends rounded or you only get square or triangle, as I have never used procedural wings before I thought I would ask 

 

[blowfish]

5 hours ago, Esquire42 said:

So slight problem that's annoying enough to make me create an account. I cannot seem to get fuel switching to work on any fuselages. Worked fine a couple days ago, installed a few more mods and now it doesn't. MM says that Firesplitter is outdated but I've manually updated it in the GameData folder and other extraneous folders where the file is located.

Try deleting the Firespitter folder in GameData and reinstall from the 5.4.0 download.  That usually clears things up

And welcome to the forums 

30 minutes ago, Virtualgenius said:

With the procedural wing is it possible to make the ends rounded or you only get square or triangle, as I have never used procedural wings before I thought I would ask 

 

You're limited to trapezoidal shapes, but fixed shape wings usually have the same limitation.  You can join as many wing segments together as you like though (might need struts).

[kcs123]

13 hours ago, Joshwoo69 said:

wow.. much rant.. much lost interest.
Ok for the near future I will not touch FAR at all.
Well done guys.

/me slow claps

Here is my personal opinions
1. I find FAR EXTREMELY realistic. Too realistic in my opinion. In older days of KSP before 1.0 I would use NEAR which is resembles closely to what stock achieved today.

2. NEAR in my opinion is good enough and I wished that Squad made a close resemblance to NEAR.

Now I am out of this discussion. *hides*

Can't blame you for that. FAR have quite steep learning curve to be pleasant for everyone to enjoy it. Not everyone have same expectation from KSP. Primary goal for KSP is to be fun game to play it, not realistic simulator.

In my opinion, main reason why people find FAR difficult to play is lack of understanding what all those FAR tools/graphs mean and how to make changes on craft to solve problems discovered trough graphs/analysis. But once you figure out how to use provided tools properly it is much easier to create craft that fly properly than in stock aero. To overcome difficulties with usage of those tools I have created post (link available in signature) that explain whole process from ordinary player perspective without too much scientific info - only need to know stuff to start creating crafts.

NEAR was created to fill large gap between old quite stupid stock physics and FAR. Stock aero is now much closer to NEAR behaviour, so it is no longer needed. Haven't checked for a while, but I think it is not updated for KSP 1.x.x

Anyway, back to topic, it is B9 thread, not FAR and if you don't like it, don't use it, noone forcing you to do that, B9 works with stock aero too. But you have also need to understand people who maintain B9 mod, it is much easier for them to update parts properly for FAR due to new voxel based shape used for calculation of lift/drag. It is much more difficult(time consuming) to provide proper configs for parts that have to be used in stock aero.

Considering that moders work on B9 in their free time, you can't blame them if they decide at some point that they no longer can provide support for stock aero.

[Flashblade]

17 hours ago, bnsfc said:

So are the HX parts not included in the CKAN download? if not why? to me there one of the big selling points of the pack, as there are manny plane part packs, but no too manny Si-Fi scale mothership parts.

Yeah the HX parts and legacy parts unfortunately aren't available on kerbalstuff. Only bac9 could make it happen. @blowfish can't you get ahold of him to add those packs to kerbalstuff?

[kcs123]

4 minutes ago, Flashblade said:

Yeah the HX parts and legacy parts unfortunately aren't available on kerbalstuff. Only bac9 could make it happen. @blowfish can't you get ahold of him to add those packs to kerbalstuff?

Or you can ask CKAN staff to change links from kerbalstuff to github. At least temporary until bac9 have more time to maintain this mod.
They were already redirected B9PW to crzyrndom github link so CKAN can udate to proper version that works.

[blowfish]

18 hours ago, bnsfc said:

So are the HX parts not included in the CKAN download? if not why? to me there one of the big selling points of the pack, as there are manny plane part packs, but no too manny Si-Fi scale mothership parts.

 

13 minutes ago, Flashblade said:

Yeah the HX parts and legacy parts unfortunately aren't available on kerbalstuff. Only bac9 could make it happen. @blowfish can't you get ahold of him to add those packs to kerbalstuff?

I was mostly waiting for someone to request it.  It doesn't really have to be bac9 - they have to be separate mods but bac9 gave me access to the main Kerbalstuff page too.  I'll work on getting that set up this weekend.

[TheHiddenKitten]

I am having problems with the cargo bays. It says contains 4 subsystems but there is no "Next Part Variant" like 0.90 had. Is there a different way to change them?

[bnsfc]

8 hours ago, blowfish said:

 

I was mostly waiting for someone to request it.  It doesn't really have to be bac9 - they have to be separate mods but bac9 gave me access to the main Kerbalstuff page too.  I'll work on getting that set up this weekend.

Sweet!

 

[Esquire42]

22 hours ago, blowfish said:

Try deleting the Firespitter folder in GameData and reinstall from the 5.4.0 download.  That usually clears things up

And welcome to the forums 

So it turns out one of the million other mods that I have installed had some version of Firesplitter that was old. Everything works now. If I only I can get Tweakscale to work with all my modded parts...
And thank you, I plan on actually doing things here and not just complaining about mods

[giorgioksp]

I cant find the super large cubic parts. help please?

 

[V8jester]

2 hours ago, giorgioksp said:

I cant find the super large cubic parts. help please?

 

The super large parts at the "HX" parts. Those are available on blowfish's maintenance port. Link in his signature (need to view from a computer)

[gleedadswell]

Is there a problem with the ckan metadata for this mod?  Trying to install it using CKAN it shows that it is trying to install *two* instances of

B9 Aerospace Pack R5.4.0

It then crashes every time without successfully installing B9.  I've tried installing all dependencies first (Firespitter Core, B9 emissives, etc.) so that all CKAN is trying to install is the B9 Aerospace pack.  But it now won't install B9.  The fact that it lists the mod twice in what it is trying to install might indicate what the problem is.

 

[blowfish]

21 hours ago, TheHiddenKitten said:

I am having problems with the cargo bays. It says contains 4 subsystems but there is no "Next Part Variant" like 0.90 had. Is there a different way to change them?

Which cargo bays?  Does switching work on the other parts?

1 hour ago, gleedadswell said:

Is there a problem with the ckan metadata for this mod?  Trying to install it using CKAN it shows that it is trying to install *two* instances of

B9 Aerospace Pack R5.4.0

It then crashes every time without successfully installing B9.  I've tried installing all dependencies first (Firespitter Core, B9 emissives, etc.) so that all CKAN is trying to install is the B9 Aerospace pack.  But it now won't install B9.  The fact that it lists the mod twice in what it is trying to install might indicate what the problem is.

 

CKAN separates the IVA props for reasons I do not know, so the second one is that.  As for why it's not installing, I can't say, but the CKAN people might be able to help you debug (it installs fine from CKAN when I try) - maybe try posting in that thread.

[MunGazer]

For some reason, (just installed this mod), I can't find the actual B9 modular wing parts anywhere while I'm in the SPH.  Has this issue come up already with anyone else?

[blowfish]

13 minutes ago, MunGazer said:

For some reason, (just installed this mod), I can't find the actual B9 modular wing parts anywhere while I'm in the SPH.  Has this issue come up already with anyone else?

You need to install the legacy pack (follow the maintenance port link in my signature and click downloads).  I should really get bac9 to update the OP to say that.

[Virtualgenius]

Why not include them in the main download instead of making it a legacy pack they are still very popular

[kcs123]

37 minutes ago, Virtualgenius said:

Why not include them in the main download instead of making it a legacy pack they are still very popular

Opinions are divided about HX parts. Some people like them, some not. There is a lot of folks who asked how to delete those HX parts as they never used them and wanted to reduce overal part numbers, to make smaller memory usage.

Having HX parts as separate downloads will make things easier for CKAN to install everything properly and also make a life of developers a bit easier, so they don't need to explain each time what folders need to be deleted to remove only HX parts.

For example, I like B9 mod, but never found good practical usage of HX parts. They look cool, that is without doubt, but put those parts in orbit to assembly space station or even large spaceship is too much pain. Even if you create shipyard in orbit trough MKS/OKS or other mod available to craft something in space. For that reason I was almost always deleted HX parts from pack, to make room for parts from other mods, like mentioned MKS/OKS, or KAX or some other nice mods available.

For me it is not a problem to delete HX parts as I get familiar with mod over time, but some other new players might find difficult to figure out what is safe to delete and what not.

[gleedadswell]

Quote

It then crashes every time without successfully installing B9.  I've tried installing all dependencies first (Firespitter Core, B9 emissives, etc.) so that all CKAN is trying to install is the B9 Aerospace pack.  But it now won't install B9.  The fact that it lists the mod twice in what it is trying to install might indicate what the problem is.

Tried again today without changing anything.  Now instead of listing B9 aerospace pack twice it lists it once and then lists B9 aerospace props and the install works just fine.  So either someone fixed it (thanks!) or the gremlins went to cause mischief elsewhere.

[blowfish]

@gleedadswell I fixed the duplicate name issue but I don't think that was the cause of the crash.  But whatever, if the issue resolved itself then it makes life easier.

@kcs123 I think @Virtualgenius was talking about the wings but much of the same is true.  For the wings, not everyone wants them (as good looking procedural wings are available), so for many they just waste RAM, loading time, and space in the editor.  bac9 has decided not to develop the fixed wings anymore.

[kcs123]

Ooops, I was carried away with other posts recently where people asked about HX parts, I didn't figured that Virtualgenius was asking about legacy wing parts. But, yes my answer can be applied for legacy parts too.
Anyway, I have put both, B9 main mod and B9PW mod to good usage. You can find link for craft files in signature.