The Grand 0.25 Discussion Thread

[boxman]

@LukeStrike

Even though I agree with some of your points like the gui needing work so that you can get to where you want quicker, I still think you are wrong about most of these issues. Most of your complaints are all about personal preferences. Some people actually like the idea of having a career mode with some purpose which includes contracts and funding. I dont know why this is an issue for you at all since those features are all voluntarily, which is how it should be. If you dont care about contract and funding then just play it without.

It is the same thing about mods like mechjeb. I myself prefer to keep it as vanilla as possible and actually feel like mechjeb would take away from the gameplay as I like being in full control of the ships myself.

And most of these issues like gui problems will most likely be fixed by the time it goes out of alpha and moves towards release. This game is stil alpha, which means there is alot of things that still has to be worked out. And this release they already made things a bit quicker by letting us go directly to any ship KSC without having to do it from tracking station.

You are kinda acting like you know best and that everyone else is wrong when you say things like that they should drop career features that other people actually want in the game. I just dont get how a optional feature that does not in any way affect you cause you so much frustration that you demand them to take it out.

[Vanamonde]

did you realize that without all the community and their work and mods your "game" is just "unplayable" ?

The game I've been playing and enjoying in stock for 2+ years is unplayable? How could I have overlooked that for so long? This is disappointing news indeed.

[Whackjob]

What unplayable vanilla might look like:

[Superfluous J]

What unplayable vanilla might look like:

http://i.imgur.com/HMtamG4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/te8UMms.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MeU3Yc6.jpg

Actually on my machine that would be unplayable indeed

(The rest is not directed at you, Whackjob. Just my observations on the subject)

Every update, I play without mods. Maybe if I went back to sandbox and didn't care about cost or science or anything else unmodded would be fine (but I'd still miss a half dozen quality-of-life and prettiness mods) but after seeing the game through the filter of my favorite mods, I do find the stock game lacking.

However one of my friends uses almost no mods, and none of the ones I consider essential to my enjoyment, and he loves the game as well.

[severedsolo]

Yeah I noticed that too. Deploying parachutes at high speed > 200 m/s will mean certain death to Kerbals now. It was not like that before.

Thats a deadly re-entry bug. It's been fixed now.

[Wanderfound]

I just came close to invoking destructible buildings in career mode.

Because funds were tight, I'd been using a lot of SRBs. Because Ferram's wings are now super-heavy, I'd been skimping on the tailfins. Result: Mun launcher flips at about 1,000m above KSC.

Never mind, I've got an abort system for Jeb...but wait! The rocket is flying straight towards the VAB! Jeb must continue battling with the controls, struggling to hold the nose up long enough to clear the buildings.

With the SRBs finally running out of juice, KSC now safe and the rocket a few hundred metres off the deck, Jeb ejects his lander and pops the chutes, settling to the ground while countless tons of rocket rain down on the paddock south of KSC.

Fun.

[LethalDose]

Man, I just got a reminder in what a nightmare it is to design an SSTO from scratch, especially using "low tech" stuff and with DRE's shockwave exponent increase. But, I got one together, and should be able to put satellites and small interplanetary probes into LKO.

Because Ferram's wings are now super-heavy

Okay, good to know i wasn't halluncinTing this. The wing masses are listed as .1 tons, but they weigh a full ton when you add them on the craft.

[Glubo]

When you guys say "deploying" parachutes, I presume you mean just releasing the "semi-deployed" skinny parachute, right? Because having the whole thing unfurl at 200 m/s will indeed tear up pretty much any ship and has done so for several versions now, if not since the beginning.

The semi-deployed chutes aren't causing any trouble for me, incidentally.

Yeah, I meant semi-deployed "drogue" phase of chutes.

[AcidSludge]

Hm, I'm disappointed. The new parts don't fit in (looks), a big bunch of bugs (slingshot EVAs, wobbly nodes, right-click issues, first savegame destroyed (ever!) after a slingshot-EVA on the mun), the economic features unbalanced and exploitable, the new effects look cheesy ... I'm glad to still have 0.24.whatev on the 'drive.

See ya'll on 0.26 - over and out!

[LukeStrike]

@Whackjob and others: Sorry but I don't play "vanilla" ... I have a base on Minmus (thanks to KAS, Launchpad and so on), a TON of ships, satellites and so around moons and Kerbin and I just do not want to play this game as a "launch", "get science" (or whatever) and "come back". As this game was a promise to do anything "else" (just limited by your imagination) it just failed at this point.

Why ? If you want to play sandbox, or just science, or eventually with contracts and funds, that's not the problem. The REAL problem is that instead of trying to make the game more playable (in terms of performances, gui, and to handle mods) no, they did "contracts and funds" as a "new splendid improvement".

Bulls*ht. I've been waiting for the 0.24 a very long time because the promise of "64k support" and such, and ... nothing. The game is even slower than before. Is it an "improvement" ? I do'nt think so.

SY

LKS

PS: and the 0.24 also hangs my computer a lot, or crashes, and *tout ça pour quoi ?*

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Man, I just got a reminder in what a nightmare it is to design an SSTO from scratch, especially using "low tech" stuff and with DRE's shockwave exponent increase. But, I got one together, and should be able to put satellites and small interplanetary probes into LKO.

Indeed, this has been 99% of my work in 0.25 so far, making aesthetically pleasing spaceplanes with good capability and relatively static CoM

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Wheeeeee!!

I love the new fuselages with their in-built Lift

[Red Iron Crown]

@Whackjob and others: Sorry but I don't play "vanilla" ... I have a base on Minmus (thanks to KAS, Launchpad and so on), a TON of ships, satellites and so around moons and Kerbin and I just do not want to play this game as a "launch", "get science" (or whatever) and "come back". As this game was a promise to do anything "else" (just limited by your imagination) it just failed at this point.

It may be that it's the imagination that is lacking, not the game IMHO. Just because you find vanilla "unplayable" does not make it universally so, there are many, many players doing creative things in purely stock KSP. Mods are great and can add a lot to the game, but they are most certainly not required to make the game playable.

Why ? If you want to play sandbox, or just science, or eventually with contracts and funds, that's not the problem. The REAL problem is that instead of trying to make the game more playable (in terms of performances, gui, and to handle mods) no, they did "contracts and funds" as a "new splendid improvement".

That's how development works unfortunately. You don't do much in the way of optimization until all the features are implemented, because it's hard to determine the bottlenecks until everything is in.

Bulls*ht. I've been waiting for the 0.24 a very long time because the promise of "64k support" and such, and ... nothing. The game is even slower than before. Is it an "improvement" ? I do'nt think so.

KSP supports 64k just fine. In fact, it supports over three million kilobytes in 32-bit and far more in 64-bit. The game is not slower at all near as I can tell, it certainly loads a bit quicker since this update.

Also have a look at the community rules regarding profanity.

[LukeStrike]

@Red: are you sure ? Seriously ? As I said before I was waiting a very long time for the 64x version (and yes I know, the Unity engine is not yet ready and blablabla). Just because I hoped a "up" in the performances of the game, due to the fact that *maybe* in the 0.23 version the game was not exploiting the possibilities of my machine (as I said, a GT70 MSI, full options)

I was wrong. This game is "at least" more unplayable than before. An example ? I had to manualy edit the persistent.sfs, coming from my 0.23 saves, just for what ??? Because in 0.23, the mode I set was science, so called "CAREER" and guess what ? In the 0.24, "CAREER" means with contracts, funds, and blabla. Just because the *ancient* name is now "SCIENCE_SANDBOX" ... what the hell is this ? So it was just impossible for me to launch a new ship because of ... money. Is it funny ? Do poeple really agree with the fact that an old save in an old version become "incompatible" ? Why they did not call the new version of the game let's say for example "CONTRACTS" ? Or whatever ? Is it "normal" for a "lambda gamer" to have to edit an old save game to continue to play "as it was" ? Sorry ... its a bug.

And everything is the same. Performances ? NOPE. Gui ? NOPE. Plugins manager (because it is oriented to) NOPE. So, let me smile and play another game, still waiting.

Maybe I did wrong because I taught this topic was dedicaced to the developpers of the game, let's say as an "open letter to the developpers" ... But I think that nobody from the SQUAD team is reading this, so, we loose our time.

SY

LKS

PS: I'm not a Youtuber, but if you have doubts see other videos. When I said the game is SLOW I was not wrong. That makes this game UNPLAYABLE, and that's all (I was ot talking about mods, even in vanilla, it is just ... slow and borring)

[boxman]

I was wrong. This game is "at least" more unplayable than before. An example ? I had to manualy edit the persistent.sfs, coming from my 0.23 saves, just for what ??? Because in 0.23, the mode I set was science, so called "CAREER" and guess what ? In the 0.24, "CAREER" means with contracts, funds, and blabla. Just because the *ancient* name is now "SCIENCE_SANDBOX" ... what the hell is this ? So it was just impossible for me to launch a new ship because of ... money. Is it funny ? Do poeple really agree with the fact that an old save in an old version become "incompatible" ? Why they did not call the new version of the game let's say for example "CONTRACTS" ? Or whatever ? Is it "normal" for a "lambda gamer" to have to edit an old save game to continue to play "as it was" ? Sorry ... its a bug.

This is why the game is still in a Alpha. If you dont like the idea of playing a unfinished game that might change or break your saves games, then dont buy alpha games. It seems to me like you have no understanding what a alpha game is as this is normal from a game in alpha as the features are not yet set in stone and things will change and break from time to time. If you had put in some research before you bought the game you would discover that save games used to break completely nearly with every updates in past. Now it is alot better, for most part now it will not break your saves fully and even when it breaks it you can do like you do and just tweak a file which is something that was not even possible in past.

And btw.. maybe the game would be a little less slow if you did not have that many mods running.

[Agricola]

WOW I just made 33k science without really trying! I completed 9 research contracts with 100% comitment to erm,... whatever it was, to convert contract payments into science!

[Shogun Gunshow]

Yup, Outsourced R&D is currently broken to all Hell. The exchange rate needs to be somewhere between 500-1000 funds per point of science, not 35.

[LukeStrike]

@boxman: Okay, I know the song "it still in alpha" ... I'm a developper/programmer, you know ? But look around you and you will see A LOT of games that, stangely are still in "alpha" and maybe will stay for months, even years in this "new option" ... still in alpha. This gives strange excuses for everything and anything. Uh oh i'm sorry but my game is still in alpha, blablabla. My wife is "still il alpha", my car is "still in alpha", my house is "still in alpha", my head is ... oh yes, "still in alpha". Stop that.

You know what alpha as a developper/programmer means ? It means that it is NOT "public domain", the early stages, still in developpement, and not running. The course of developpement is:

- first stage: alpha (not to be distributed AT ALL)

- second stage: beta (you can, and please must test it at your own risks, with a feedback)

- third stage: stable release ... you can use it, and we assume some kind of "security", if the version change (I'm not talking about win* for example )

Always the same story. Once again we are speaking against users ... As I said, this "message" was destinated to the SQUAD team. Make your game better, more faster, listen the community and the ton of modders that make your game more enjoyable, and that's it.

Sur çe ... (because I'm french language native) ...

SY (means see you, or see ya, as you prefer)

LKS

[dryer_lint]

Yeah, Outsourced R&D is insane. I'm at 15% commitment, and I'm getting science by the thousands on a regular basis! The tech tree is almost finished, and my only trip outside of Kerbin orbit has been one trip to the Mun!

[Agricola]

The furthest I have been out is on a rescue mission 110k orbit, yet I completed half the tech tree with my 13,000 science awarded for 9 contracts! definetly needs refining.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Agricola

[MKI]

@boxman: Okay, I know the song "it still in alpha" ... I'm a developper/programmer, you know ? But look around you and you will see A LOT of games that, stangely are still in "alpha" and maybe will stay for months, even years in this "new option" ... still in alpha. This gives strange excuses for everything and anything. Uh oh i'm sorry but my game is still in alpha, blablabla. My wife is "still il alpha", my car is "still in alpha", my house is "still in alpha", my head is ... oh yes, "still in alpha". Stop that.

You know what alpha as a developper/programmer means ? It means that it is NOT "public domain", the early stages, still in developpement, and not running. The course of developpement is:

- first stage: alpha (not to be distributed AT ALL)

- second stage: beta (you can, and please must test it at your own risks, with a feedback)

- third stage: stable release ... you can use it, and we assume some kind of "security", if the version change (I'm not talking about win* for example )

Always the same story. Once again we are speaking against users ... As I said, this "message" was destinated to the SQUAD team. Make your game better, more faster, listen the community and the ton of modders that make your game more enjoyable, and that's it.

Sur çe ... (because I'm french language native) ...

SY (means see you, or see ya, as you prefer)

LKS

Terms can change, as a developer/programmer I'm amazed your here complaining about how the terms don't fit what you believed them to fit. Get with the times. I have games that will forever be in alpha, alpha if anything means the game is not finished. Nothing more nothing less. I see few difference between this "alpha" game and many open betas I have played. So yes terms are vauge, but saying this game shouldn't be offered because the Devs label it an alpha is pretty bogus.

Spending time here going off negatively about the game isn't getting anyone anywhere. Instead of an open letter to squad why not write in an actual email (letter) to them. With suggestions as to what to do. You might actually help improve them game instead of bother all of use guys who like the game as is.

64 bit is unstable. It is a bummer. I agree, but thats about as far as the statement can go without becoming slander. There still is the 32 bit version which works fine. There is also the Linux version that runs much smoother on 64 bit. Still with its own problems but generally better than the windows 64.

I must say I don't hold much against squad, as i bought the game basically half price a year ago. Yes the newest updates can mess things up, but I'm getting them for free compared to someone that tries to buy it today. That is why I don't mind, for what breaks the game and gives me a few new things are essentially FREE to begin with. So I win in the end by getting on this alpha game machine. As does anyone who deals with all the issues of an ever changing in development game that comes out in "alpha". Especially in this case where if you bought the first few version for like $20 you get 10$ of content over time FOR NO COST on top of the game.

So yes the game is worth it, because what your complaining about is free stuff you got without paying. Now if you had to pay more to get the newest updates and they were messed up, yes you get a right to complain. But otherwise consider your purchase of the game an investment in the future, along with the perk of playing the game as it sits NOW. Id say thats a great deal.

[Camacha]

Is it me or is the performance of explosions a bit worse than before? It never was ideal, as explosions typically lagged a bit, but now the game can sometimes nearly grind to a halt.

[Sky_walker]

Terms can change,

The most common excuse used by people who don't understand the meaning of words.

So yes terms are vauge,

Actually, they're not. Or at least - weren't until clueless people started to misuse them.

Instead of an open letter to squad why not write in an actual email (letter) to them.

I admire your optimism thinking that it'd go anywhere else than into Junk folder.

Open letter got at least a chance of being read by game testers / moderators / general public.

I must say I don't hold much against squad, as i bought the game basically half price a year ago.

Don't feel special - good 90% of people did. KSP is on sale so often that you rarely see people coming here saying that they bought KSP in anything else than a sale.

That is why I don't mind, for what breaks the game and gives me a few new things are essentially FREE to begin with.

He paid for it. It's not free. He bought into an early access game, which means he paid for a future development of the game.

Bulls*ht. I've been waiting for the 0.24 a very long time because the promise of "64k support" and such, and ... nothing. The game is even slower than before. Is it an "improvement" ? I do'nt think so.

You'll have to wait for Unity 5 to be released before having any hope for major performance improvements in KSP.

Sadly SQUAD choice of an engine wasn't good when it comes to performance. It works great for modders, but that's pretty much it.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Sky_walker

[Apollo13]

FWIW, my favorite feature is the riddance of an annoyance. Specifically, in the VAB/SPH, if there's a part that I've not purchased, I no longer need to go to the R&D Facility and play "treasure hunt" to find The Node with that part. In the VAB/SPH, I can right-click the part and buy it there. As an added bonus, in the R&D Facility, I can buy all the remaining parts in a node with one click.

A small thing? Yes. But, a goody.

Someday, I'll get into space planes; I'll enjoy those new parts, too.

[Neutrinovore]

This may have been mentioned here before, but I don't have the time or desire to read 600+ posts, so here's my 2 cents.

I'm pretty cheesed off here. I run a lot of mods, I mean a LOT of mods, maybe not the most ever, but certainly way more than the average player, probably. Anyway, under 0.24.2, my game was running just fine as long as I used the Active Texture Management mod to keep my memory use down to a reasonable level. Well, whatever got "improved" in 0.25 may be great for some folks who play mostly stock, or have some monster gaming rig with near-supercomputer capabilities, but KSP is now totally broken for me, because ATM now doesn't work at all, and therefore I can't even load the game without an out-of-memory lockup/crash! As far as I know, the author(s) of ATM are working on fixing the problem, but the last I checked on the relevant forum thread, he was saying that it doesn't appear as though there's any way to get it working again. Or words to that effect, anyway. Bottom line, I may not be able to play KSP with any of the mods that I consider utterly essential for this game to be remotely playable.

So anyway, thank you, Squad, for "fixing" your game until it broke, dammit!